Traction Traction in Mud

[cmcramer]

Well, I tried it. Either I get those maple bolts out very soon, or no shiitakes next Spring. So, nybirdman, you're right: made a mess of the trail, but my higher hardwood grove is OK. And yes, next year it'll be on frozen ground.

I ran her out in 1st gear, high range, throttled to PTO level on the tach. She walked right through the worse mud holes without spinning the front tires at all! The engine did change it's tune a little as more horsepower was called for, but it sounded good! Threw 300 lbs of sugar maple bolts into the bucket and headed back. As I approached the mud holes, it dawned on me that I now had more weight up front....and it might bog me down more, plus, should I use the ruts just created or steer for a new 'line'? I hit the mud in a new line, engine working good and hard, walked right through with no spinning. Life is good. I was stepping on differential pedal through the mud, but I sure could not see or feel any difference. This good video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LjOwFvjIDcE

says, I think, the pedal needs to be depressed to engage - it does not 'lock in'. Anyway, I sure could not feel any difference. Second trip: same scenario....except...at second mud hole I decided to put my two right tires up onto a little high spot next to the mud hole. Maybe 18 inches higher, and drier, and heck - at least two of my tires will be on good dry land! This was a mistake, as I'm sure many of you are chuckling about right now. The lower front tires dug WAY down, up to axle, made a huge rut, and I was stuck. I'm sure there is a physics lesson here somewhere involving force and vectors...but meanwhile I could not rock it out front or back. Angry, mad, and embarrassed. Tractor one week old. Removed maple bolts from loader. Then I remembered a tip about FEL....never had one before....so I lifted whole front end up and clear of ruts, stuck 6 or 8 dead logs underneath front tires, she WALKED RIGHT OUT! Washed her off. Not going back. Lesson learned. Will CARRY bolts 150 feet past mud holes tonight. Will send photo to y'all if I can figure how.

 

[k0ua]

Your learning, that is the important thing:thumbsup:

 

[pmsmechanic]

I would say never be embarrassed about getting stuck. Look at it as education. You are learning the limits of your tractor. And how are you going to learn that if you don't go there. Same for getting your tractor dirty. If it hasn't got some dirt on it you aren't using it!

If you would get enough use out of it I would be tempted to buy or make a carry all for the three point hitch. Then the weight of the logs would be on the rear tires.

 

[Gary Fowler]

If you set up your tractor with duals and wider front tires like this you will never get stuck. If you want to know how I attach the duals I can post more pictures.

I also am better at modifying my tractor than making pictures rotate to the proper orientation. I need to learn how to do that but that is a job for another day.

With those turf tires, you could get stuck on a cow patty. You have good flotation almost zero traction in mud even with duals. I have gotten stuck with dual R 1 tires with over a foot of space between the tires to allow mud to shed. When they are set tire to tire like those, the whole thing will smooth over with mud very easily and you wont go anywhere even if you aren't bogging in very deep.
Any one who claims he cant get stuck has not been in the right situation yet.

 

[dougtrr2]

Well, I tried it. Either I get those maple bolts out very soon, or no shiitakes next Spring. So, nybirdman, you're right: made a mess of the trail, but my higher hardwood grove is OK. And yes, next year it'll be on frozen ground.

Then I remembered a tip about FEL....never had one before....so I lifted whole front end up and clear of ruts, stuck 6 or 8 dead logs underneath front tires, she WALKED RIGHT OUT! Washed her off. Not going back. Lesson learned. Will CARRY bolts 150 feet past mud holes tonight. Will send photo to y'all if I can figure how.

Glad you were able to get out. But when I have used my loader to get unstuck I get the cutting edge vertical and then spike it into the ground. Then I apply some reverse power as I curl the bucket. It is slow but effective.

Doug in SW IA

 

[cmcramer]

I just have to practice the FEL escape technique....I was too upset to practice ANYTHING last evening.....thought my tractor would spend a couple months in the woods by herself...

 

[Xfaxman]

Well, I tried it. Either I get those maple bolts out very soon, or no shiitakes next Spring. So, nybirdman, you're right: made a mess of the trail, but my higher hardwood grove is OK. And yes, next year it'll be on frozen ground.

I ran her out in 1st gear, high range, throttled to PTO level on the tach. She walked right through the worse mud holes without spinning the front tires at all! The engine did change it's tune a little as more horsepower was called for, but it sounded good! Threw 300 lbs of sugar maple bolts into the bucket and headed back. As I approached the mud holes, it dawned on me that I now had more weight up front....and it might bog me down more, plus, should I use the ruts just created or steer for a new 'line'? I hit the mud in a new line, engine working good and hard, walked right through with no spinning. Life is good. I was stepping on differential pedal through the mud, but I sure could not see or feel any difference. This good video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LjOwFvjIDcE

says, I think, the pedal needs to be depressed to engage - it does not 'lock in'. Anyway, I sure could not feel any difference. Second trip: same scenario....except...at second mud hole I decided to put my two right tires up onto a little high spot next to the mud hole. Maybe 18 inches higher, and drier, and heck - at least two of my tires will be on good dry land! This was a mistake, as I'm sure many of you are chuckling about right now. The lower front tires dug WAY down, up to axle, made a huge rut, and I was stuck. I'm sure there is a physics lesson here somewhere involving force and vectors...but meanwhile I could not rock it out front or back. Angry, mad, and embarrassed. Tractor one week old. Removed maple bolts from loader. Then I remembered a tip about FEL....never had one before....so I lifted whole front end up and clear of ruts, stuck 6 or 8 dead logs underneath front tires, she WALKED RIGHT OUT! Washed her off. Not going back. Lesson learned. Will CARRY bolts 150 feet past mud holes tonight. Will send photo to y'all if I can figure how.

This works to upload pictures from a computer, don't know about smart phones: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/photos/107314-photo-posting-how-3.html?highlight=#post3967120

I am enjoying your thread, brings back memories of when I got my first tractor.

One of the things I was best at was getting stuck!

 

[pmsmechanic]

With those turf tires, you could get stuck on a cow patty. You have good flotation almost zero traction in mud even with duals. I have gotten stuck with dual R 1 tires with over a foot of space between the tires to allow mud to shed. When they are set tire to tire like those, the whole thing will smooth over with mud very easily and you wont go anywhere even if you aren't bogging in very deep.
Any one who claims he cant get stuck has not been in the right situation yet.

Well what you say may very well be true for your soils but I have no problems with traction or flotation. Here the mud is sticky enough that even without the duals there is plenty of traction.

I have rototilled bare mud just to try and help a customer dry out the soil so they could move it around with a blade. I have also rototilled sod to make enough loose soil to repair irrigation ditches. There was water running over the sod that I rototilled. With the duals on I haven't been stuck but then maybe I haven't tried hard enough to get stuck either.

When I clean manure out of corrals is where I run a bit short of traction but as you remove the manure from the corral it drys out just enough to not be a problem. At least with the lawn and garden tread it doesn't chew up the soil and I don't need to be so careful with the corral walls. I need to take some pictures of these situations!

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Depending on where in Oswego, NY cmcramer is, he might be in glacial lake bottom.

Which means that mud could be anywhere from an inch to a hundred feet deep.

Glad the FEL trick worked for you.

You don't really need full-sized logs for the corduroy section. I've done just fine with brush and branches; you just need quite a few to make a good matting to drive on. Consider it an organic version of the steel matting they used for quick runways on soft ground for aircraft back in WWII. (Actually, they were still using steel matting for Rapid Runway Repair back in the 1990s, don't know what they're using today.) Go Pink Ponies!

 

[cmcramer]

Here's two pics of the mud holes.

 

[k0ua]

Yeah, those will do for mud holes all right.

 

[nybirdman]

After seeing the pictures there is now way I would have tried that.You "gotter done".
What part of Oswego co. are you in?I lived in Fulton and Phoenix for a while;worked at the nukes and brewery(B-Ville) from 1975-1985.

 

[BobRip]

Long term i would fix the area I put gravel and drain pipes in an area that I had problems with. Use your
tractor to fix the problem area.

 

[blin]

Don't think I saw tire pressure mentioned, but the lower you can go without breaking the bead the better the grip. My rears call for 20 PSI, but I run about 15 and It's a big improvement.

 

[crazyal]

With all those trees around you can always get yourself out. Just stop by your local fire department and ask if they have any old fire hose around (they are always replacing it) to use to protect any tree you wrap a chain around. To go in reverse just curl your bucket down (on my Kubota you can't curl it all the way down as it doesn't have the strength to push the tractor back so you just don't go quite that far), plant it into the mud lifting your front wheels out of the mud and as you drive in reverse uncurl the bucket. If your tractor wants to slide back into the hole made by your tires when you raise the front bucket use a chain to one of the trees to prevent it from doing so. Just move as far back as possible as I said, get off and chain the tractor as tight as you can get it before raising the bucket, curl the bucket down again, plant it and move again. The mud has to be really deep for that not to work.

To go forward I hook a chain onto the front bucket and a tree then use the curl function to tighten the chain up. I've never done it on my Kubota but have had to plenty of times with my backhoe.

 

[cmcramer]

With all those trees around you can always get yourself out. Just stop by your local fire department and ask if they have any old fire hose around (they are always replacing it) to use to protect any tree you wrap a chain around. To go in reverse just curl your bucket down (on my Kubota you can't curl it all the way down as it doesn't have the strength to push the tractor back so you just don't go quite that far), plant it into the mud lifting your front wheels out of the mud and as you drive in reverse uncurl the bucket. If your tractor wants to slide back into the hole made by your tires when you raise the front bucket use a chain to one of the trees to prevent it from doing so. Just move as far back as possible as I said, get off and chain the tractor as tight as you can get it before raising the bucket, curl the bucket down again, plant it and move again. The mud has to be really deep for that not to work.

To go forward I hook a chain onto the front bucket and a tree then use the curl function to tighten the chain up. I've never done it on my Kubota but have had to plenty of times with my backhoe.

That, CrazyAl, is a good technique. Hope I never have to use it, but I'll remember your tips if I ever do need it! Nice!!!

 

[eddie48]

Here's two pics of the mud holes.

View attachment 421222View attachment 421223

I had an area like that in my woods. Dropped about 10 bucket loads of fieldstone into it and it tightened up right nice. Still gets muddy but has a bottom to ride on.

 

[k0ua]

I would get a couple of dump truck loads of 0 to 6 delivered, and start in on an edge and dump a bucket load in the edge, and then keep working out and driving over the rocks, and working it down into the mud, until the rock mix stays on top. Just keep building "road" until you reach the far side of the hole. Then finish the top off with some 0 to 3/4 base to make is smooth. See how that works out.

 

[sdef]

Here's two pics of the mud holes.

View attachment 421222View attachment 421223

Yep. I live in these daily, and worse, created by my continuous "logging" with the FEL at near max. capacity as I am clearing my property home site and the very wet spring we are having. When the ruts get too deep I spend some time with the ROBB and bucket leveling it out and hopefully letting it dry out somewhat; but this spring has been unusually wet and drying out is seldom. I ran a subsoiler in the worst areas hoping for better drainage- but that has not seemed to help.

My course is to use 4WD continuously (2WD would get me nowhere). Then resort to differential lock when I start to get stuck. Had to use the loader once to get unstuck by lifting the left buried front wheel out of the muck, which allowed differential lock and the rear tires to pull me backwards to more stable ground.

Test your differential lock by being in a sloppy section, noticing only one wheel spinning and then engage the lock and hopefully both rear wheels will be engaged and spinning after a few revolutions. You can make the situation more lively by having your bucket digging into the ground while doing this test and seeing the results.



Edit: I also have a Jeep GC with a 9k winch on the front and a 12k mount for the rear of the tractor, with all of the accessories, but have not had to use either yet. But I expect to one day.

 

[sdef]

I would get a couple of dump truck loads of 0 to 6 delivered, and start in on an edge and dump a bucket load in the edge, and then keep working out and driving over the rocks, and working it down into the mud, until the rock mix stays on top. Just keep building "road" until you reach the far side of the hole. Then finish the top off with some 0 to 3/4 base to make is smooth. See how that works out.

I did similar when building my driveway as there was a lot of fill dirt used after removing small, buried boulders. Some areas were very soft and even my Jeep could get stuck. I laid 1.5" of slag over the whole driveway and end of problem. I think they interlocked well enough to not require packing down into the soft stuff. It actually worked far better than expected.