Tractor Sizing TRACTOR WEIGHT as ONE (1) CRITERION in TRACTOR SELECTION

[bridge4]

Subcompact and compact tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in landscape, kitchen/commercial garden or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres.


Ten acres?? Of course you are not considering the numerous twenty five or so HP and under three thousand pound tractors that were used to farm 1/4 or 1/2 sections of land are you?

Some guys are trying to make things drag out because they got a yapper in the house that won't give them any peace and quiet, Jeff is trying to help them out :laughing:

 

[jeff9366]

Tractors are inherently unstable operating on sloped ground. Tractor rear wheel/tire spread, sometimes adjustable, is a critical factor increasing compact tractor stability working sloped or uneven ground. Rear axle is the tractor component on which rear wheels/tires mount. A 6" to 10" wider rear axle substantially decreases tractor rollover potential. Tractor width is an approximation of rear axle width.

Larger wheels and tires provide more tractive power pulling ground contact implements and logs, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris yielding higher operating speed with less implement and operator perturbation.

When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.

 

[tradosaurus]

Where have I heard that before. :laughing:

 

[RugerSAfan]

Why is tractor weight different than tire ballast or wheel weights?

 

[jeff9366]

Why is tractor weight different than tire ballast or wheel weights?

Good question.

Tractor weight is a specification easily found in tractor catalogs and tractor web sites. From bare tractor weight customers option/customize tractor for customer's particular conditions and applications.

Tire ballast, wheel weights and cast iron wheel centers are options ordered by some, not others. Materials used and tire fill proportion vary combined options weight. Tire ballast (water, water-alcohol, beet juice, solid "foam"; 50%/75%/100% ~ foam) wheel weights (iron or concrete) and cast iron wheel centers contribute to Operating Weight. Note: I show bare and operating weight in my T-B-N TRACTOR PROFILE. My L3560 R4/industrial tires contain only air.

Bare tractor weight is a tractor spec with only slight measure variations between tractor brands. Kubota measures bare tractor weight "dry", without motor oil, without hydraulic fluid, without diesel fuel and without radiator coolant. Kubota probably uses dry weight as a legacy because all its early tractors were exported from Japan assembled, therefore shipped across the Pacific dry. I believe Kubota's assembled tractors exports to the USA/Georgia still ship dry. My L3560 arrived dry in 2013. Other tractor brands measure bare tractor weight as "wet" weight.

 

[MossRoad]

...Larger wheels and tires yield more tractive power pulling ground contact implements and logs, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less operator perturbation.
...

Since this is directed at tractor noobs, that would suggest they put bigger tires on a tractor. That would yield LESS tractive power while increasing top end speed. Smaller tires would put more power to the ground, while cutting top end speed. So you might want to clarify that.

 

[MossRoad]

You are absolutely correct, as usual.

However, larger wheels are factory standard only on heavier, more powerful tractors in my experience. And small wheels drop into holes, disrupting traction, that larger wheels bridge, maintaining traction. Can you provide an example of factory tires so large that tires limit the tractor?

This is not really germane, but in Europe I see large tractors traveling perhaps 40-mph over the highway, with large, equal size wheels/tires front and rear.

That's because they have the gearing that allows those speeds.

Someone that's new to tractors and doesn't understand that you mean bigger machines with bigger tires and thinks you mean put bigger tires on a small machine will be sorry it they go that route. You have to change the gearing if you want to put bigger tires on a smaller machine. You can't easily change gearing on a modern compact tractor.

An example of wanting bigger tires on a smaller machine reminds me of a Power Trac owner that wanted larger diameter tires on his smaller Power Trac machine for floatation on beach sand. But he knew that would seriously reduce his low-end power and raise his top end speed. So he had larger displacement wheel motors installed on all four corners to reduce the speed of the rotation and provide more torque at low end, then put on the larger diameter tires which raised the speed back to stock speed.

There's no way to do something like that on a modern compact tractor. Older tractors could get a gearbox installed, something like the sherman's on the 8N's. But there's nothing offered like that for modern compacts that I know of.

The only way you're gonna run larger diameter tires than stock on a compact tractor is to buy a larger tractor. Otherwise, you'll lose low-end pulling power.

 

[MossRoad]

duplicate removed

 

[jeff9366]

CREDIT: 'FELIXEDO'

It has been touched on a couple of times, but not directly as a buying factor. Every major make has a machine that will do the job(s) you want. Check out your nearby dealers. Go with a dealer you have confidence in. A great machine with no support nearby is a hassle to repair and maintain. And a good machine can't make a lousy dealer into a good one.

 

[MossyDell]

My experience has inclined me to buy the smallest possible tractor and weight it up as much as possible. Part of that experience goes back 18 years, when on our property in southern Indiana we had a pond dug. Had a great old excavator named Walt Taylor dig it, mostly with his little dozer. He noticed I had a Kubota and to my surprise was a real fan, had at least one he used at home and told me it was his brother who advertised in the paper that he tilled gardens with a "Kubota tractor and tiller."

Well, that pond ended up with a seam in the bottom and we bought a clay sealer that needed to be tilled in, so we hired Walt's brother. He arrived towing his outfit, big HD pickup and trailer and a little B series that was about 24 hp. I had a 2wd B series 21 hp at the time and was impressed because his was about the same size, though 4wd. Well, he tilled the heck out of that pond bottom and it stopped the leak.

When he came back to be paid he was towing his rig again but had a big bushhog on the tractor, said he was on his way to cut for someone. Now, I believe it was a six-footer--at least a foot over whatever the tractor was rated for---and I commented on it. He said the dealer told him it was too big but the tractor would handle it. He said he worked his tractor hard and used straight 50 weight oil. He also had cut the roll bar off because it hit limbs when bushhogging, which I thought was insane and still do. He had made a little shelf out of the rollbar at the height of the seat back.

I wondered why he didn't get a larger tractor. He said he didn't want to have to have brakes on his trailer and a bigger tractor would obligate him legally to do so because he'd go over whatever the cutoff was. I later got a 16 foot trailer with electric brakes and it was no big deal. I wonder if an old coot like that didn't consider electric brakes BRAKES and was talking about REAL surge brakes?

Anyway, I think of those brothers sometimes. Nice guys, good equipment operators, Bota fans, original characters. They gave me a lot of faith in small tractors to do big work, with care. Of course folks overload and can and do damage CUTs, but at least one old feller and his little bota made a big dent in Hoosier weeds and dirt for a while.

Because of my experiences, the constant refrain on these forums to get the biggest possible machine makes me shake my head. Small is beautiful. In know a guy who got a 30 hp+ Kubota for his few acres, a machine fit for 40 acres in the old days. It is beautifully equipped and just sits in his garage. It is too big to maneuver with a mower in his spaces. He uses it in winter for snow removal, and it's wonderful for that. I'd rather have a tractor that was optimum all year and fair at snow removal.

 

[MossRoad]

CREDIT: 'FELIXEDO'

It has been touched on a couple of times, but not directly as a buying factor. Every major make has a machine that will do the job(s) you want. Check out your nearby dealers, and go with one you have confidence in. A great machine with no support nearby is a hastle to repair and maintain. And a good machine can't make a lousy dealer into a good one.

Great support can be as near as a phone call. My dealer is well over 500 miles away, yet I can talk to them, get great support, and parts overnighted.

 

[jeff9366]

I will be bushhoging 12-13 acres of the field once a year or once every 2 years. My intentions are to let the field grow up some for deer and rabbit hunting. I will keep the other few acres either mowed down monthly or in food plots.

I want something that'll pull a 5' bushhog easily with only being mowed once a year or every other year. And maybe a 4' bushhog would be fine, just don't know how long either would take me to mow.

Here is a mowing calculator. Mowing once per year will require a tractor speed of around 4-mph. Mowing every second year will limit tractor speed to 3-mph due to density of vegetation.

Mowing once per year will require 40 - 45 tractor horsepower to operate a 60" HD bush hog = 2 acres per hour.

Mowing once per year will require at least 50 tractor horsepower to operate a 72" HD bush hog = 2-1/2 acres per hour.

Allowing for a 6" overlap, a 48" bushhog mows only 42" per swathe. Ugh!

Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour



Kentucky has a lot of hills in parts, which strongly influences tractor width required for tractor stability.

Do you have hills to tractor? Are your fields on a slope?
Are potential food plots on flat or sloped ground?

Tractors are inherently unstable operating on sloped ground. Tractor rear wheel/tire spread, adjustable on the MX series, is a critical factor increasing compact tractor stability working sloped or uneven ground. Rear axle is the tractor component on which rear wheels/tires mount. A 6" to 10" wider rear axle substantially decreases tractor rollover potential. Tractor width is an approximation of rear axle width.

Given the limited info you have provided in your opening post I suggest a cabbed Kubota MX5400 tractor of 4,250 pounds weight including 600 pounds for cab, 53-horsepower net, 66" width, capable of pulling a 72" heavy duty Rotary Cutter weighing 1,100 pounds through tall grass, tall weeds and brush.

Cabbed Kubota MX5400 tractor/'SSQA' Loader/4-WD/HST transmission = $42,000.
Land Pride by Kubota HD 72" Rotary Cutter/RCR2672 = $4,000.
​

Every tractor producer has models with above specs. This is a high sales volume category.

John Deere pricing for equivalent equipment will be the same to 5% more expensive. Other tractor brands such as very fine Kioti, LS and Branson, all three produced in Korea, are available for 5% to 10% less than Kubota.

KUBOTA LINK: Tractors - Utility - MX Series | Kubota

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Most new tractors are delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction, often safety/cutout switches which require adjustment to operator weight. My Kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment after seven years. Dealer proximity is less important for those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.


When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR​

 

[jeff9366]

"MossRoad"

Bigger tires yield LESS tractive power while increasing top end speed. Smaller tires would put more power to the ground, while cutting top end speed

Since this is directed at tractor noobs, you might want to clarify that.

Tractors are inherently unstable operating on sloped ground. Tractor rear wheel/tire spread, sometimes adjustable, is a critical factor increasing compact tractor stability working sloped or uneven ground. A 6" to 10" increase in rear axle width substantially decreases tractor rollover potential. Tractor width is an approximation of rear axle width.

Small tractor wheels drop into holes, disrupting traction. Larger wheels and tires supplied on heavier tractors bridge holes and ruts, increasing traction. Larger wheels and tires permit higher operating speed over uneven ground by reducing implement bounce and operator perturbation.

When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.

 

[Cranblue]

Jeff, I am a neophyte and frankly there's nothing stimulative about it. For your application you found larger tractors sufficiently more efficient than smaller ones to make it worth the extra expense. It's obvious you spend quite a bit of time trying to influence readers here. Your posts would be much more influential if you quantified how the larger machines did things your smaller tractors could not do or how they did jobs more quickly. I don't want to dissaude you from continuing to try to help readers, as I have found some of your posts very helpful, but as it stands now the substance of this post essentially reads "because I did it" or "because I said so."

Yes he has some tractor experience but not a lot of heavy equipment experience !!! Bigger is not always better people caught up in bigger has to be way to go.

 

[jeff9366]

RE: Kubota L4701 tractor.
​

With 4x4 FEL loader could one fill front bucket with dirt to add weight, then pull a 900 pound Tandem Disc Harrow without rear wheel weights or liquid in tires ??


My L3560 has 35-horsepower. I have air in the tires yet pull the 900 pound disc fine in Florida sandy-loam, toggling between HST MED/High and HST MED/Low on the Grand L 'HST+' half step transmission, generally at 75% to 100% throttle.

The L4701 has 47-horsepower and is lighter. From experience I guesstimate supplemental weight on the rear tires will aid traction to apply the additional horsepower to the ground. You have to pull a Disc Harrow at a brisk clip for it to even the land properly.

While an FEL does add weight and dirt in the bucket adds more, FEL weight in front of the tractor leverages weight off the rear tires, negating some ( all? ) of the FEL weight bearing on rear tires. So FEL weight is neutral or negative to rear wheel traction.

Most with an SSQA bucket probably drop it for improved forward visibility when harrowing. I do. I once removed the entire FEL when preparing to harrow for several hours.

One can reduce the disc gang angles to reduce draft force resistance. One can raise the disc. One can lengthen the Top Link to shift more disc weight to the rear, smoothing gangs. But above draft force reduction adjustments reduce pan penetration of the soil.

Soils vary a lot. Soil moisture varies a lot. Tractor tire types and tread wear varies. Perhaps half of disc harrow users set their new disc aggressively, then never adjust the gang angles again. Too many variations to really answer your question with certainty.

 

[Dranrab]

Yes he has some tractor experience but not a lot of heavy equipment experience !!! Bigger is not always better people caught up in bigger has to be way to go.

I have been running my Mahindra 1626 for a year and a half now and have not yet found occasion to wish for more weight. In hindsight, I probably could have gotten away with a subcompact. The sub would have been a benefit in the tighter turns in my walking paths.

 

[Cranblue]

If you get a chance go on You Tube and look up L2501 expanding a pond !!! Watch how the operator works the FEL hardly ever spins his wheels keeps his work area smooth gets good buckets scoped up.Clearly experienced and shows that small tractor weight and HP can move some dirt...

 

[jeff9366]

We need a tractor capable of moving large hay bales (rounds 1,200-1,700 lbs)

Could be. In my area of Florida, which is hay country, round bales seldom weigh over 1,200 pounds.

An open station tractor with a bare weight of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds can lift and move 1,200 pound round bales using a bale spear on the Front End Loader and stack them at least two bales high. However, the tractor will feel very tippy to a new operator lifting bales to stack. Mid weight compact tractors of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds bare tractor weight are often used to groom arenas.

An open station tractor weighing 3,700 to 4,000 pounds can transport 1,200+ pound round bales safely with a Three Point Hitch mounted (rear) bale spear but can only lift bales a few inches. Transport but no stacking. The tractor is stable because the bale weight is low and bale weight is carried on the large, rear tractor tires, which do not pivot/steer.

A tractor with a bare weight of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds is suitable for actually working 10 to 25 acres of farm acreage. Working acres, not total acres.

For safety most recommend a 5,000 pound bare weight tractor for moving and lifting bales heavier than 1,200 pounds using a bale spear on the Front End Loader and for safely moving/stacking 1,200 pound bales by inexperienced tractor operators using a front bale spear. A 5,000 pound bare weight tractor can stack round bales three high.

A tractor with a bare weight of 5,000 pounds is suitable for actually working 20 to 40 acres of farm acreage. Working acres, not total acres.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[jeff9366]

Brand? Models to look at or avoid? Buy new or used?

The design of the Three Point Hitch tractor has been marketed in the USA since 1939 -- 83 years in 2022.

The basic design is generic.

Kubota and Deere have most of the market through 6,000 pound bare weight tractors. But this Kubota/Deere predominance is regional.

The up and coming compact tractor brands are Korean: Kioti, LS and Branson. There are other Korean brands. You have to critically assess dealer stability while shopping minor brands.

Korean manufacturing labor is paid 50% of what Deere pays its union work force. Japanese manufacturing labor is paid 70% of what Deere pays its union work force. Labor costs strongly influence tractor prices.



We have the following brands within an hour of us.

• Kubota
• LS
• TYM
• KIOTI
• Massey Ferguson
• John Deere

I know that a lot depends on the dealer and their willingness to help, but should I stay away from any of these brands?


Start with the nearest dealer and work out.

Transporting a tractor for service is expensive and inconvenient, whether you trailer it or the dealer trailers it.


CREDIT: 'FELIXEDO'

"It has been touched on a couple of times, but not directly as a buying factor.

Every major make has a machine that will do the job(s) you want. Check out your nearby dealers, and go with one you have confidence in.

A great machine with no support nearby is a hassle to repair and maintain.

And a good machine can't make a lousy dealer into a good dealer."

 

[jeff9366]

By bare tractor weight you mean without front end loader, right?

Yes. Most of the time adding external tractor weight increases rear tire traction.

While an FEL does add weight and dirt in the bucket adds more, FEL weight in front of the tractor leverages weight off the rear tires, negating some ( all? ) of the FEL weight bearing on rear tires so FEL weight is neutral or negative to traction.

Bare tractor weight is one of the easiest tractor specs to find.