TRAILER WEIGHT

[Diamondpilot]

Here is a link to the 2007/2008 Indiana DOT regs. Check the last page, 13, top of the right side and it states exemptions. It clearly states things like military personal, fire fighters, farm hands, and recreational vehicles.

http://www.in.gov/dor/files/intro.pdf

Chris

 

[denmansoft]

Could someone clarify something for me?
I drive a Dakota Quad cab with tow rating of ~#5800, CGWR ~#11,000
Am I illegal in the states to pull my #1700 trailer rated at #7000, when it is empty ?

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am not sure about your area but in the state of Indiana you are not. In your case you could not haul a trailer no heavier than 5,800# assuming your truck does not weigh more than 5,200# actual weight with you in it and all the stuff you carry in your truck. I would not think your truck weighs more than that because my F-150 4x4 only weighs 5,960#.

Some states you can tow a trailer no matter what the rating is as long as its not actually loaded past the tow vehicles tow limit. Here in Indiana they go off the GVWR of the trailer, not what its loaded at. So in your case you would be 1,200# shy. The only way around it here which many have done is to remove the vin# from the trailer along with all data plates and turn in the title saying the trailer was destroyed. Then go to the BMV and have a new title issued along with a vin# as a home made trailer and list the max GVWR at what you need, in your case it would be 5,800# That would keep you legal in Indian but like I said it could be completely different where you live.

If it were me I would just keep using it as is and keep your mouth shut.

Chris

 

[Builder]

Could someone clarify something for me?
I drive a Dakota Quad cab with tow rating of ~#5800, CGWR ~#11,000
Am I illegal in the states to pull my #1700 trailer rated at #7000, when it is empty ?

No, because (I'm assuming here) it's registered for 7,000lbs. With a GCWR of 11,000lbs, you can only register the trailer for 11,000 lbs minus the weight your Dakota weighs.

 

[KeithInSpace]

Am I illegal in the states to pull my #1700 trailer rated at #7000, when it is empty ?

IN VIRGINIA, it is legal. I have previously quoted Virginia Code in response to another thread. The requirements regarding trailer rating, GVWR, and other items is based on SCALEABLE weight, as well it should be. I tow a 10,000# trailer behind my Expedition rated for 9,000# with the use of a load-leveling hitch (6,000# without). I use a load leveling hitch. I've hauled a solid 6,000# in that trailer for 5 mile trips and have hauled 3,500# of tractor and equipment 200 miles with no issue.

If others have checked other states codes and are 100% certain that you can't tow through that state thusly configured (empty 7,000# trailer towed behind a truck rated to tow 5,800#) I'd LOVE to know which ones they are. I guess Indiana is one.

Seems this is a very, very, very stupid law some moron came up with to avoid being accused of profiling folks that "look" overweight...either your truck can handle the trailer rating or not. The law was probably never intended to be served that way, but it just became the case somehow.

CHECK YOUR STATE (or whatever state you normally trailer through). It's easy to find. I'll bet a quarter that only a few states have this stupid type of law on the books.

In response to this very question, I asked my DMV when registering the trailer if I could register it for less than its actual rating. The response was absolutely not. It is a vehicle with ratings just the same as a car, and those ratings must be carried through the title process. I guess Mr. DiamonPilot's suggestion would work around this item, but it would seem that this is far more illegal than the original issue if actually caught.

Personally, I'm not changing a darn thing. If I I'm in one of these backward states and get pulled, I'll plead my case. If I get ticketed, I'll go to the judge and plead my case. If ALL THOSE IDIOTS don't listen, I'll pay my $125 and be on my way.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Keith I totally agree with what you are saying but that is the law here and looks like it is in Pennsylvania also where Builder lives. I am sure if he says its so it is, he knows his stuff.

I am like you and would just keep my mouth shut and use the trailer but like Builder stated a few days ago if something was to happen and the lawyers got hold of it, well.

The laws need to be the same everywhere. I tow a lot through Kentucky and Tennessee along with my home grounds here in Indiana and Ohio and the laws could not be more different. For example, in Kentucky you do not need brakes on any trailer but in Indiana you need brakes on trailers with GVWR over 3,000# but it does not state how many axles while other states require brakes on all axles.

I always wondered what would happen if you took off across the US on a trip hauling a trailer and you got stopped??? What would be the course of action if your trailer was legal in say Kentucky but not in Arkansas????

Chris

 

[wushaw]

Chris,

I think that is false. Every state that I am familiar with the DOT or DMV regs requires a Class A CDL when the truck and trailer (trailer over 10,001 pounds) has a combined weight of 26,001 or more pounds. Even Ma & Pa Kettle pull'n the family shack behind a 1 ton truck.

You may be correct as I'm no expert, do you have a link to that statue that explicitly excludes RVs and boats in your state?

jb

I have a Class A NON-CDL just for the purpose of pulling my trailer/house with a class 7 truck.
Texas does the Military, RV, farm, firefighter exemption.

I can also use the truck to pull my utility trailer with tractor or dump trailer as long as the truck is registered as a HD truck instead of RV, all have to be for personal use.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/DLhandbook.pdf

 

[denmansoft]

It sounds like I'd better stay home with my lightly loaded trailer. I don't have a problem with staying within actual posted/placard limits. To me it is absurd to ticket because the trailer limit has the possiblity of overloading the CGVWR. That would be like ticketing anyone for DWI that could possibly drink!
This reminds me of the laws you have with respect to heads and pumpouts on boats. $1500 fine for not having the placards with prescribed wording in place. There doesn't have to be any indication or even suspicion of any pollution. These are great laws for keeping out foreign visitors.

It is bad enough getting getting called an 'Alien national' by someone holding a loaded M16 pointed my way...

 

[wkpoor]

I just had a thought. Why don't I get pulled over for speeding simply because my car has the ability to go faster than the the speed limit.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Like I said "just keep your mouth shut and do it". Lets face it, most criminals are not caught by great police work. They are caught because they can not shut up.

Chris

 

[wkpoor]

Thank goodness Ohio doesn't have that silly law. Good to keep in mind if/when traveling out of state though.

 

[GreenWannabe]

Florida is one of those states which specifically exempts RVs of any size from requiring any kind of license other than a Class E. I found the specific quotation on the official Florida Drivers Licensing website, and printed it out and carried with me as long as I had my 40 foot 450 hp 34,880 GVWR/44,880 GCWR diesel pusher, towing my minivan on a tow dolly. I checked every year at least to be sure they didn't change the law on me. RVs are also not required to cross the scales.

However, in my travels, I'm sure in some states (Illinois comes to mind) that I was not legal - they required a higher class license, even for those from out of state. Fortunately I wasn't stopped anywhere.

What is even worse, you cannot rely on a driver's licensing station to be knowledgeable on the issue either - I had one station tell me I needed a Class A with an air brake endorsement, one tell me I needed a class D, and two that told me I only needed a class E. I researched it for myself.

 

[KML]

"No, because (I'm assuming here) it's registered for 7,000lbs. With a GCWR of 11,000lbs, you can only register the trailer for 11,000 lbs minus the weight your Dakota weighs."

I must be missing something... If you had two tow vehicles with different GCWRs you would then have to re-register the trailer everytime you switched tow vehicles..

The GVWR of a trailer is established by the manufacturer just as the GVWR, GAWR and GCWR of a truck is set by the manufacturer when it's built. It's then registered at it's GVWR.

If you have a trailer rated by the manufacturer at #7000 and registered at #7000, it's a #7000 pound trailer wether it's being pulled by a half ton pick-up with a GCWR of #13000 or an F350 dually with a GCWR of #23000.

As long as you make sure you don't load a trailer to exceed it's GVWR and that the combo of trailer, load, and truck don't exceed the GCWR of the truck I don't see what the violation would be.

 

[Diamondpilot]

"

As long as you make sure you don't load a trailer to exceed it's GVWR and that the combo of trailer, load, and truck don't exceed the GCWR of the truck I don't see what the violation would be.

You would not be in violation in the example you gave. You are totally legal. The problem is when you are towing at trailer with a GVWR that exceeds the tow rating of the vehicle being use to pull that trailer.

Chris

 

[KML]

I pull my 14K (GVWR and licensed) dump trailer with my F150 for light loads. The truck's GCWR is 13000, the truck weighs 4800 giving a trailer+load of 8200. The trailer weighs 4380 empty so my math say's as long as I don't put more than 3820 on the trailer I'm safe and legal. You got me thinking, so I just got off the phone with the Indiana state police commercial enforcement division (317-615-7373) and asked.

Their answer was that as long as your actual measured weight doesn't exceed any limitations set in Title 9 of Indiana state law you have no problems. He linked me to this handy reference:

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/size_weight_laws.pdf

Pointing out this paragraph:

Vehicle License Plates and Registered Weight

"Indiana has a registered weight limit, which is based on the declared gross weight (referred to as registered weight) for a vehicle when it is registered with the Bureau of Motor Vehicles or International Registration Plan (IRP) and only refers to the amount of registration fee paid according to the amount of weight declared on the registration."

He stated:

-the plated weight only affects your registration fees and nothing else, as stated above.

- The cummulative weight ratings of trailer and tow vehicle are used to determine the need for a CDL, registration fees, and DOT number requirements but the actual weight MUST be used for a weight violation. When they issue a citation they must list the title and section of Indiana state law that was violated on the ticket and no section lists a trailer RATING exceeding a tow vehicle rating, they state a WEIGHT exceeding a tow vehicle rating.

- a weight ticket without a scale read-out would get "bounced by a Judge in about 30 seconds flat". If you get cited for over weight without a scale slip He'd like the ticket number, "they guess weights at the county fair not in courtrooms"


I'm not trying to call you out. I believe that you are trying to help, you had me a little worried I was breaking the law, but sound like you got some bum information.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Well, I read this over and I agree with what you are saying and stand corrected. I was told by a dot official at my local weight station that you could not pull a trailer with a GVWR higher than the tow limit of the tow vehicle. I was told wrong and sorry for any scares I have sent. I guess what this is saying is you can plate it at a lower rate and that would be legal also.

In your case you would have to register your trailer at 7,000# because in Indiana the plates go, 3,000#, 5,000#, 7,000# ect so you would only be able to actually haul 2,620#.

Also I am wondering what type of F-150 you have that only weighs 4,800#? I had my 2007 F-150 4x4 weighed with me in it and 3/4 tank of gas and it was 5,960# and just went and looked and it has a 15,000# GCWR. It list the tow rating in the book as 9,200# but according to my math my truck would only be able to handle 9,040# and be legal. So I am limited in my case to hauling trailers with 9,000# plates or less. I guess that is due to the options on my truck and the things like a bed liner, tow straps, plus some tools I carry around.


Once again, sorry.
Chris

 

[wkpoor]

Also I am wondering what type of F-150 you have that only weighs 4,800#?

Chris, A few weeks ago I hauled a Ford long bed 250 4WD into the the crusher and that is about what it weighed. Most pickups don't weigh as much as one might think. Neither do the cars. Unless the crusher scales are slanted in their direction.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Either that or the scale at my local gravel pit is off. Not that it matters much because when I go there to buy products they weigh you going in then out again to get the product weight. I live just 1.5 miles from the pit so I weigh all my stuff. I have even driven my tractor to the scales. Anyway I weigh all my trucks with 3/4 tank of fuel and me in it. My 2004 F-250 4x4 PSD weighs 7,200# and my 2006 F-350 4x4 PSD weighed 7,600# and like I previously stated my 2007 F-150 4x4 weighed 5,960#. I just had my neighbors 2007 Chevy 3500 D-Max 4x4 at the scales and it weighed 7,000#.

I believe the weights I am getting are right. For example my F-150 weighs 5,960# and has a GCWR of 15,000#. Ford list the tow rating as 9,200# and if you read the fine print that is with one 150# person in the truck. Well my truck with me in it, 165#, weighed 5960#. The math 15,000-5,960=a actual tow rating of 9,040#. Like I said I carry a few tow straps, some tools, a jack and 4 way bar, ect which would account for the extra 160# of stuff that takes away from my tow rating. Plus all my trucks have just about every option like power sunroofs, sat radio, brake controllers, running boards, bed liners, ect.

Chris

 

[john_bud]

Here is a link to the 2007/2008 Indiana DOT regs. Check the last page, 13, top of the right side and it states exemptions. It clearly states things like military personal, fire fighters, farm hands, and recreational vehicles.

http://www.in.gov/dor/files/intro.pdf

Chris

Thanks for the link.

It looks like you are correct for IN. Just don't cross state lines and find a grumpy blue suit in the window, could be spendy. From what I am hearing, it is the "in thing" for generating revenue. (sick)

jb

 

[Sackett2]

so much info here my brain is going to explode.

Last week my brother-in-law educated me on the basics of Oregon law, so when I took my tractor to a friends house for some work, I stopped off at the scales and seen what I weighed.
Basically, Odot is enforcing the 9000ish lbs trailer law; if the trailer weighs over 9000isl lbs the truck heeds a license plate with a "T" on it. there may be/are other rules that apply but this is what they were watching for as he pulled into the dump for his work.
Now after he told me this I needed to weigh my rig; Montana tractor, 4' hog and a blade up front- about 6800 lbs, and my 92 F-250 2wd was at 7500 lbs.
I have realized tonight that I am about at my max weight for my 16" trailer, so in the future a heaver trailer will be on the list. However, when I took off with the trailer attached, I drove like a granny, slow, cautiously and on the back roads, altho the freeway would have been quicker. I have access to a new Dodge 2500 Cummings, but don't favor the idea of doing 65 mph with my tractor. so i'll use old Ford and take my time. The nice thing is that I really don't plan to move the tractor much or far.

Thanks for the education guys, keep up the great work.