Trying to decide Kubota BX25 or 1025R

[nikerret]

I did a lot of comparisons; data sheets, test drives, digging holes on dealer properties, etc. BX25D-1 vs 1025R is 6 vs 1/2 dozen. You just have to decide what is most important, to you.

I ended up with the Kubota BX25D, a 60" MMM, and a 60" Land Pride rear blade (cost me $48). The John Deere was really its only contender. The biggest problem with the 1025R TLB was the price ($5,000 more than I paid for BX). The second biggest was the single function hydraulics. The third was the seat.

The $5,000 pretty well explains itself. The single function hydraulics are a big deal, to me. Yes, the JD specs higher, on paper, but at the cost of going two directions, at once. I was able to pop a >4" root with the BX25D backhoe, but had to torque it two ways. I doubt the extra umph of the JD would have been enough. The BX25D seat is better than the 1025R seat, for my butt. The JD bounced too much.

Of course, the JD has some great advantages, too. From the seat ergonomics are superior on the JD, without a doubt. The location of the loader controller, auxiliary plug, and the addition of a storage compartment and tilt steering wheel trump the BX by a long shot. The bucket level indicator of the JD is functional, the BX is stupid (or I am, but no one can really seem to make it work); actually, the JD buckets are more functional, in pretty much every way: the flat top beats the rolled top, so much easier to weld on hooks or accessories.

Removing the JD FEL is cake. The BX required more steps, but is not taxing or labor intensive. Obvious benefit to JD, but not a game changer, to me. I prefer where the FEL hydraulic hookups are, on the BX, as they seem safer.

The BX cooling fan is often shown as a weak link. It's not a plus, as the transmission cooler on the JD is superior, unless it has an issue. A new fan is only $20, but a huge PITA to replace. The tranny cooler would be big money, and a PITA; though, it is unlikely to be damaged.

The hood on the JD is one piece and moves enough for service. The BX shroud has to be moved forward, after taking off the front guard. It's a few extra steps and the one piece would be nice to have.

They are more alike, or personal preference, than anything:

Pedals: The JD is more efficient, but I've never had a problem with he heel-toe design. There have been times, working around delicate things, where I preferred the heel-toe, so I didn't accidentally go the wrong direction. This is my first tractor and heel-toe is more idiot-proof.

Mower: (comparing 60") Both cut great. The BX rides higher, which is a plus. It's safer for it and you can cut up to 6", if you need to. The JD's drive over is infinitely better than the BX drive over. JD has a cool Autoconnect, but it's only cool when it works. Crawling under the tractor to connect the mid-PTO sucks, big ones. Having problems with the JD Autoconnect would probably suck bigger ones, but it's not likely you'll have a problem, either.

Size: It's so close, it probably doesn't matter. I know I got a job with my BX the JD would have been too wide for, so that's a plus. The JD is wider, so it's more stable, that's a plus. You can buy spacers for the BX, so it can be even, but you have to factor that cost into the $5K savings. The BX has higher ground clearance, according to Kubota, but the JD lifts more, with a comparable footprint.

Implements: JD and Kubota offer a fair amount of accessories and implements made for these tractors. JD has Frontier and Kubota has a dealer arrangement with Land Pride. I don't know much about Frontier, other than to say they appear to be quality and expensive. The Land Pride stuff is quality and expensive. It is made in Salina, KS, wich is cool.

I'm sure there's more, but I have to get the kid to school. In the end, I doubt you'll find too many jobs one can do that the other can't. Both run out of traction and weight before horsepower. Both are much more capable than they look. Here's a review I did of two used units, when I was shopping, keep in mind this was an older BX25, not the one with the nicer seat and dash: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/328518-2012-kubota-bx25-tlb-vs.html
For the most part, these comparisons ring true on the current models.

As far as the Massey Fergusons, I wasn't able to find a newer one to look at (with the TLB) with 200 miles of my house, in the two years I looked. There is one in town, but it's the first model they made, in the subcompact TLB and the guy has TRASHED it. I don't think it's a reflection of the machine, more the man.
The MF seems to offer a lot, on paper. I did sit on the GC1715, but didn't get to run it, at all. I find the MF GC line to be a strange middle ground, even blend of the benefits the JD and BX compete over. To get a MF, with the same setup I got in the BX was going to cost around $2,000 more. If I could have actually used one, to try out, I think it would have been a very tough choice between it and the BX.



No matter what you read, there's a lot of fanboys.

 

[check]

I did a lot of comparisons; data sheets, test drives, digging holes on dealer properties, etc. BX25D-1 vs 1025R is 6 vs 1/2 dozen. You just have to decide what is most important, to you. I ended up with the Kubota BX25D, a 60" MMM, and a 60" Land Pride rear blade (cost me $48). The John Deere was really its only contender. The biggest problem with the 1025R TLB was the price ($5,000 more than I paid for BX). The second biggest was the single function hydraulics. The third was the seat. The $5,000 pretty well explains itself. The single function hydraulics are a big deal, to me. Yes, the JD specs higher, on paper, but at the cost of going two directions, at once. I was able to pop a >4" root with the BX25D backhoe, but had to torque it two ways. I doubt the extra umph of the JD would have been enough. The BX25D seat is better than the 1025R seat, for my butt. The JD bounced too much. Of course, the JD has some great advantages, too. From the seat ergonomics are superior on the JD, without a doubt. The location of the loader controller, auxiliary plug, and the addition of a storage compartment and tilt steering wheel trump the BX by a long shot. The bucket level indicator of the JD is functional, the BX is stupid (or I am, but no one can really seem to make it work); actually, the JD buckets are more functional, in pretty much every way: the flat top beats the rolled top, so much easier to weld on hooks or accessories. Removing the JD FEL is cake. The BX required more steps, but is not taxing or labor intensive. Obvious benefit to JD, but not a game changer, to me. I prefer where the FEL hydraulic hookups are, on the BX, as they seem safer. The BX cooling fan is often shown as a weak link. It's not a plus, as the transmission cooler on the JD is superior, unless it has an issue. A new fan is only $20, but a huge PITA to replace. The tranny cooler would be big money, and a PITA; though, it is unlikely to be damaged. The hood on the JD is one piece and moves enough for service. The BX shroud has to be moved forward, after taking off the front guard. It's a few extra steps and the one piece would be nice to have. They are more alike, or personal preference, than anything: Pedals: The JD is more efficient, but I've never had a problem with he heel-toe design. There have been times, working around delicate things, where I preferred the heel-toe, so I didn't accidentally go the wrong direction. This is my first tractor and heel-toe is more idiot-proof. Mower: (comparing 60") Both cut great. The BX rides higher, which is a plus. It's safer for it and you can cut up to 6", if you need to. The JD's drive over is infinitely better than the BX drive over. JD has a cool Autoconnect, but it's only cool when it works. Crawling under the tractor to connect the mid-PTO sucks, big ones. Having problems with the JD Autoconnect would probably suck bigger ones, but it's not likely you'll have a problem, either. Size: It's so close, it probably doesn't matter. I know I got a job with my BX the JD would have been too wide for, so that's a plus. The JD is wider, so it's more stable, that's a plus. You can buy spacers for the BX, so it can be even, but you have to factor that cost into the $5K savings. The BX has higher ground clearance, according to Kubota, but the JD lifts more, with a comparable footprint. Implements: JD and Kubota offer a fair amount of accessories and implements made for these tractors. JD has Frontier and Kubota has a dealer arrangement with Land Pride. I don't know much about Frontier, other than to say they appear to be quality and expensive. The Land Pride stuff is quality and expensive. It is made in Salina, KS, wich is cool. I'm sure there's more, but I have to get the kid to school. In the end, I doubt you'll find too many jobs one can do that the other can't. Both run out of traction and weight before horsepower. Both are much more capable than they look. Here's a review I did of two used units, when I was shopping, keep in mind this was an older BX25, not the one with the nicer seat and dash: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/328518-2012-kubota-bx25-tlb-vs.html For the most part, these comparisons ring true on the current models. As far as the Massey Fergusons, I wasn't able to find a newer one to look at (with the TLB) with 200 miles of my house, in the two years I looked. There is one in town, but it's the first model they made, in the subcompact TLB and the guy has TRASHED it. I don't think it's a reflection of the machine, more the man. The MF seems to offer a lot, on paper. I did sit on the GC1715, but didn't get to run it, at all. I find the MF GC line to be a strange middle ground, even blend of the benefits the JD and BX compete over. To get a MF, with the same setup I got in the BX was going to cost around $2,000 more. If I could have actually used one, to try out, I think it would have been a very tough choice between it and the BX. No matter what you read, there's a lot of fanboys.

Great review, and thanks for taking the time and effort to post it! You are a fine example of what TBN is all about. Clearly, the OP cannot go wrong with either of these two tractors, but beware – the greatest angst you experience is right after your purchase, and the more similar that the two products are, the more dissonance! ("OMG, did I make the right choice?"). Goes with the territory, I'm afraid.

 

[sixdogs]

That is the most complete comparison I think I have ever read. What a happy ending.

Will we be getting picture of it?

 

[murphy1244]

Are the rpms to do work the same on both?

 

[nikerret]

I believe the RPM's are very close, if not the same. I will have to check the JD manual to see. If I have some free time, later, I can look it up.

sixdogs, if you wanted pictures from me, I can provide a few:

The first commercial job I did, digging out portion of a sump pump line:


The large root I was able to break, with the backhoe:


Here's a few more shots, you can see how close the healthy tree is that provided the roots:

 

[nikerret]

Here's the first time I put the 3pt kit on and the rear blade:


Needed fuel, so I drove 1.8 miles to the station while playing in the snow:


When I got done, I think it had around 12 hours on it( total, not just from this)!

 

[nikerret]

Are the rpms to do work the same on both?

Yes, both are "rated" at 3,200 RPM. Both will go a little higher. The BX needs around 3,050 RPM to run the mower deck, but I just throw it to around 3,000 or 3,200ish, if I need a little more juice (I've cut grass over three feet tall with it, a couple of times).

At the 3,050, the mid-PTO is at 2,500 RPM, I believe the BX has the highest rated mid-PTO, among the sub-compacts. This doesn't mean much, except, it (theoretically) should wear out parts faster. From what I've heard, you can expect problems around 2,000-3,000 hours, or dozens of hours after you stop maintaining it.

 

[nikerret]

Here's a concrete slab porch I helped rip out:





Money Shot!! If you notice, the bucket is off the ground, it was on the ground, but the slab was so heavy, the outrigger pads kept sinking deeper:

 

[nikerret]

Day 1 of digging a drainage solution. You can see I got started just in time. If I had started later, all this water would be in her basement:


Closer to done:


Where the dirt is going:


She wanted the dirt to go in the back, to make a ramp, to the back door. A stone wall will be made to hold the dirt and it will be covered in the same gravel the front pit will be filled with. She is tight on money, so the pit is just sitting there, until she has the funds for the next step.

 

[nikerret]

Here's one reason I love this BX tractor: You can drive it all over, with a load, and not tear up grass.

The customer had the rock hauled in and I moved it around the house.


As you can see, the entire back and sides of his lawn have a pretty steep grade. I never spun a tire or tore up any grass:


This was the main area I drove, to get the rock to the east and south sides of the house. I kept the backhoe on, for ballast, and was glad I had it on. When we started, in the morning, the grass had dew on it, which made me nervous. The customer said he didn't care and would like to do it then. Turned out fine, no damage:



Where the pile was. I didn't get a before picture:

 

[nikerret]

This isn't the thickest or tallest grass I've mowed, but it did this without any issues:


The old lad's kids' father dropped a tree in the road and needed help. The BX couldn't lift it, but it was got the pressure off the ground just enough to get his saw unstuck. Then, his chain wouldn't stay tight. Brand new Stihl....again, I'm thinking more a reflection of the man than the machine. I had my Echo CS400 with the stock 18" bar and chain. I finished with it. That trunk was around 20-21" across the larges part, pictured. I would cut it so the small bit would go in the bucket then move it to the burn pile. Was very efficient. Would have been more-so if I didn't have to do most of it myself.

 

[davrow]

Great set of pictures, nikerret! Thank you.

 

[sixdogs]

Great pics.

Always be careful digging because there are lots of utility things buried below grade. Some is surprisingly close to the surface.

 

[hurricanoday]

awesome info and pictures. Speaking off jobs and implements, I know I will be getting a brush hog but not sure about a blade or box blade. What would I use to level out the area where my shop is going? (see attached) Would I need to bring in some feel dirt?

Also want to move some of the dirt to the right of the clearing to add to the flat part, but I assume I will have to hire in some big guns?

Also have a pretty long driveway that is pretty smooth but it has a high spot down the middle with grass growing, would that be a box blade or would I need something else? I will take a picture when I get home.

Also

 

[sixdogs]

For site prep work, bulldozers work great because they get a truly flat surface with good compaction. If you are pouring a slab, you want it flat and compacted and not loose like smaller equipment would often leave. Plus, they can do the work in a fraction of the time.

 

[hurricanoday]

For site prep work, bulldozers work great because they get a truly flat surface with good compaction. If you are pouring a slab, you want it flat and compacted and not loose like smaller equipment would often leave. Plus, they can do the work in a fraction of the time.

Yes I understand that a dozer would be better and faster but cost is a factor. I think all I would be doing with the subcompact is trying to get it level best as possible. It will be a pole building and they said the site already looks pretty good. I would just try to clean it up a little bit. They will be digging holes away.

Just not sure what implement would work best

 

[nikerret]

For doing a lot of 3pt level work, the JD would be better, as it has position control.

I can't really see the pictures, they show up HUGE, on my screen, but I believe the box blade is better, for doing the type of work you're looking at. I considered the box and the rear. I went with the rear because it can do nearly everything the box can, even if less efficiently. The box has scarifiers, which the rear blade cannot duplicate.

Everyone I know who has a box blade just uses it on their gravel driveways. They don't seem overly impressed with it, for snow removal or other dirt work. The beauty of the rear blade is being able to angle it. That's where it makes magic. Where I went wrong is not getting the tilt option. THAT is the rear blade to get. My next one will have tilt or I might try to fabricate a tilt, for this lightweight blade.

There are a lot of threads on here, comparing the two. Take others' advice, over mine, in this regard. I've never used a box blade.

Of course, you can use your tractor to do the dirt work. I don't know what your soil is like, but I have terrible clay, here, and can do some pretty good digging. When I get some more experience, I'll really be able to knock it out. In learning terms, I'm still playing basketball with those hoops you hang on your bedroom door.

The beauty of learning to do it on your own land, is you already know how disappointed you'll be, when you screw up and how proud you'll be, when you fix it. Plus, yours is nice and open. Nothing to run into. There's no way I would pay someone to do something I could do with my tractor, unless it was time sensitive and my tractor would take too long or I already messed it up beyond my ability to fix it. You don't learn half as much by watching as you do by doing. Start with YouTube videos or find someone who does have experience, if you aren't the "wing it" type.




As was stated, be careful digging. In KS, we have OneCall, aka DigSafe, aka 811. It's a group of a lot of the utility companies and providers, who will come mark the property, so you can choose what's going to go where. I'm sure your area has something similar. If they do, make sure you get a list of the companies they work with and the companies, in your area. Fortunately, EVERY company in my town is on KS list. In the County, there is one company I have to call, independently (it's a small power company). On top of that, I also carry an independent liability policy with specific coverage for digging. Mine is a commercial policy as I would like others to pay for my tractor and enjoy the tax write-offs. With tractors, **** near everything is deductible. It's my first year, ask me again, in April, how that worked out.

 

[hurricanoday]

You think it is to big of a job for the bx or 1025? Still dont have any pics but I noticed last night my driveway is slanted. Not sure how I would level it.

Def gonna tackle the shop area though. Is there a way to guesstimate how much dirt to bring in?

 

[nikerret]

I would do my own, with my BX. If someone wanted to hire me to clear/level an area, it would depend on the size. If mine was the right tool for the job, or slightly undersized, I would be willing. If my tool is not the right tool, I will tell the customer they would be better off paying someone with the proper tool. No sense paying me $200, when the right person, with the right tool, will only cost $150.

For example, I know a guy who is wanting to make his single carport a double garage. That would be a quick, easy job I would take on. I had a guy ask me about digging out the footings, for a basement. That is NOT what I do and I told him he should look elsewhere.

 

[Grandad4]

For doing a lot of 3pt level work, the JD would be better, as it has position control.

I can't really see the pictures, they show up HUGE, on my screen, but I believe the box blade is better, for doing the type of work you're looking at. I considered the box and the rear. I went with the rear because it can do nearly everything the box can, even if less efficiently. The box has scarifiers, which the rear blade cannot duplicate.

Everyone I know who has a box blade just uses it on their gravel driveways. They don't seem overly impressed with it, for snow removal or other dirt work. The beauty of the rear blade is being able to angle it. That's where it makes magic. Where I went wrong is not getting the tilt option. THAT is the rear blade to get. My next one will have tilt or I might try to fabricate a tilt, for this lightweight blade.

You're right about the position control setup being more useful for blade work. That said, I've been using both a box blade and a scraper blade on my BX for many years now, and with practice you get the hang of using that funky raise/lower control on the BX. Have done a bunch of dirt work with the box blade... a 48" BB is a good size for these SCUTs. For snow, a BB is better than nothing, but not by a whole bunch. Great counterweight for FEL work though.

An offsetting tilt rear blade is indeed a very useful implement, but they are not common in a size suitable for an SCUT, maybe because the added reinforcement needed makes them pretty heavy and having the digging/pushing action so far off-center can toss around a lightweight tractor.

Finally, what a great write-up you've done here! Very useful information, and photos as well!