Ultra-cheap metal structure?

[zmoz]

I am looking into building a *VERY* cheap metal shelter approximately 12-14' by 25'. It also needs to not be completely ugly.

I was thinking about getting a greenhouse hoop bender like this:
The Original Greenhouse Quick Hoop Bender "DIY" #DY-12 - eBay (item 150536230902 end time Mar-19-11 09:06:36 PDT)
Which uses standard galvanized chain link fence rails.

What I wonder is, could I make a bunch of hoops like that as if building a greenhouse, and then cover with coruggated tin roofing instead of plastic? Would it conform well to the curved shape, and would there be any structural issues?

I would prefer to bend the coruggated sheets 90 degrees across the corruggation for strength, but that would take a special bender. If I just use it lengthwise I would think it would be easy to bend around the curve.

Does anybody know where I could buy or possibly how I could make a bender that would bend the coruggated sheets 90 degrees to the coruggation? (like a culvert) Seems like this might be a much more structurally sound alternative....

 

[tommu56]

Carports Standard Style Roof - From Carports & More

 

[terry.dinerman]

ZMOZ-

I have built a lot of pole-frame steel barns, and I like your idea regarding the use of the tubing bender and making your own hoops and covering them with corrugated....

I have helped build a carport that looks a lot like the one in tommu56's photo using Schedule 40 pipe bent on my HF manual hydraulic bender and attached the sheets with self-tapping self-sealing screws.

It went up quickly and kept the cost as low as possible due to the low number of parts.

The hoops were bolted to a prepared foundation consisting of a pair of 2" x 1/4" metal straps extending 6" our of a 36" x 8" post-hole filled with concrete.

Once the hoops were up the sheeting went on very quickly.

There was plenty of strength in the sheets from the corrugations (standard "M" style galvanized tin) especially where they wrapped around the bends in the tubes, which formed a standard peaked roof. They spanned 8 foot bents.

I would not recommend you put a severe bend ACROSS the corrugations in your sheets....all of the engineered sheet steel structures employ a gradual bend thru a fairly wide arc...a severe bend which overly crimps the panel will not provide much structural strength.

If you don't have access to a bender, why not consider a pole frame made of treated poles and lumber?

There are a lot of good free plans for such items at the various State and University Agricultural Extension websites....

Good luck on your project....let us know how you do and REMEMBER....you gotta post photos!

Terry

 

[DAY]

Google "Quonset hut". Lots info/ideas/kits.

 

[zmoz]

ZMOZ-
I would not recommend you put a severe bend ACROSS the corrugations in your sheets....all of the engineered sheet steel structures employ a gradual bend thru a fairly wide arc...a severe bend which overly crimps the panel will not provide much structural strength.

If you don't have access to a bender, why not consider a pole frame made of treated poles and lumber?

I was thinking more along the lines of something that looks like a 14' diameter steel culvert cut in half. I know some places sell kits for buildings that look similar to this but I was wondering if maybe I could bend it myself.

I want the whole thing to be semi-temporary, it will be put up over an asphalt parking area.

I kind of like this design better:
16 x 48 ft High Sidewall Greenhouse Frame Package Kit - eBay (item 380137209990 end time Mar-29-11 08:44:18 PDT)
with straight side walls that could be made from the "siding" type of metal sheets with vertical lines, which match the rest of the building, and then the rounded top covered with coruggated material.

I notice in this example the rounded top support seems to have some heavy internal supports sort of like trusses. Is that really necessary? I was thinking simple galvanized fence pipe hoops with 2x4 purlins under the metal skin.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

If you really want ultra-cheap the carport design has the minimum amount of framework. By running the panels lengthways the ribs function as purlins spanning up to 5'.
Metal Roofing Carports | Lyon Metal Roofing & Supply
If you want a little nicer look there is this style:
Carport - A-Frame Style
If you want the corrugations running the other way you need to add purlins and it will work fine but you are getting away from the minimalist design.

Quonset-hut style buildings are heavier steel with huge corrugations. When you scale up a culvert you have to scale up the corrugations too. Not ultra-cheap.

This place has the best metal prices around here. $1.60 per linear foot for 3' wide 5-rib panels cut to any length you want. They also sell the screws, trim, etc. at a good price. If you are in range of a similar mfg, you are sitting pretty good.

Metal Roofing & Siding Panels | Lyon Metal Roofing & Supply

 

[zmoz]

If you really want ultra-cheap the carport design has the minimum amount of framework. By running the panels lengthways the ribs function as purlins spanning up to 5'.
Metal Roofing Carports | Lyon Metal Roofing & Supply

I like that, basically what I was thinking except with square tubing. Any idea how much square galvanized tubing like that cost or where I could buy it? Seems like it could be bent to my exact dimensions relatively easily with a cheap harbor freight bender. Or would round chain link fence rails be just as good? They're only about $1/foot....

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Lyon seems to sell it. I haven't checked their prices. For DIY it might be just as easy to bevel and weld an a-frame vs. bending. I think it would be a challenge to get a good result bending the square tubing without fabricating special dies.

For advice on using chain link rails call the ebay bender vendor. I'm sure they have heard your question before. Since the rail diameter is only 1-3/8", hoop spacing will have to be much closer than the 4-5' used in carports. For straight sidewalls additional truss bracing would be required to prevent the tops of the walls from spreading.

In most places you can get an 18x20 carport installed for about $700 and you can't get a kit any cheaper. Extra height is about $50/ft. A-frame adds $100. If you deviate from the value leader size the price goes up disproportionally. You can add panels yourself to close it in.

 

[Kyle241]

Just asking as I don't see where you are located. Do you have snow loads or are you a lucky one living in the Southern climes? I have looked at something similar for my tractor and implements however I have concerns our snow loads may cause problems.

It would be nice to see pics of whatever you choose to do though as I like 'cheap' and 'not too ugly'. :laughing:

 

[zmoz]

Just asking as I don't see where you are located. Do you have snow loads or are you a lucky one living in the Southern climes?

Not much snow load, we got about 1/2" at the most this year, which is typical.

I think I'm going to try the HF pipe bender with 1 3/8" galvanized fence rails bent into more of a standard peak shape than round, like some of the examples above. Guess I can just add extra bracing where necessary. I'm debating leaving the sheets off one side, since it will be up against a building anyway...

Square tubing would be nice but the 2" they use for those carports looks kind of expensive and fence rails are much easier to source and only $0.89/ft...

Do you think it would be possible to put a 90 degree bend in a pipe like this with a Harbor Freight bender without kinking it?
YARDGARD 10-1/2 ft. 17-Gauge Steel Top Rail for Chain-Link Fence - 328913DPT at The Home Depot
12 Ton Hydraulic Pipe Bender
The bender doesn't have a 1 3/8" die...would the 1 1/2" work?

Terry, you said you built one out of schedule 40 pipe...what diameter did you use?

 

[terry.dinerman]

Do you think it would be possible to put a 90 degree bend in a pipe like this with a Harbor Freight bender without kinking it?
YARDGARD 10-1/2 ft. 17-Gauge Steel Top Rail for Chain-Link Fence - 328913DPT at The Home Depot
12 Ton Hydraulic Pipe Bender
The bender doesn't have a 1 3/8" die...would the 1 1/2" work?

Terry, you said you built one out of schedule 40 pipe...what diameter did you use?

I used 2"....

1. Using batter-boards or steel layout pins, lay out and square up your structures perimeter on the ground.
2. Lay out your "hoop" inside this perimeter. Lay out the center points of your eave-line bends and the peak on the ground with some stakes.
3. Run a stringline around the stakes
4. Spray paint the line
5. Remove the string - If done right, the string will leave a clear mark in the middle of the paint swatch
6. Lay the pipe down next to the long axis.
7. Mark the center of each bend on the first pipe as you go. Record the measurements and repeat on each pipe.
8. Center up the bending shoe on these marks on every pipe to assure consistency between hoops.
9. Use additional stakes to keep the pipe on the line as you move along the pipe with the bender and bend each angle to the paint line
10. Slight over-bends may be required to accommodate the spring-back from the elasticity of the pipe, so bend to the line, relax the bender, check the bend and re-bend as necessary.

The structure I built was a lean-to, so only required a single 20' join of pipe for each hoop to provide 12 foot of interior clearance and an 8 foot eaveline. Larger hoops could be bent in halves and either welded or sleeved and bolted together

If you stitch the edges of adjoining sheets together with pop rivets or small nuts and bolts every 4-6 inches, you may find your structure is quite rigid.

The lean-to used a standard 26ga sheet with a drip edge made of 26ga "J" channel and did not need any cross bracing. The pop rivets were quick and a dab of silicone made it all water-tight.

Good luck and Be Safe!

T

 

[aczlan]

The structure I built was a lean-to, so only required a single 20' join of pipe for each hoop to provide 12 foot of interior clearance and an 8 foot eaveline. Larger hoops could be bent in halves and either welded or sleeved and bolted together

Do you have any pictures of this lean to? Dad is looking at doing something similar, so we are looking for ideas.

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[tommu56]

I think bending the tube will be harder to get good results (my electrician back ground) I'v tried it with EMT.

Look at a tarp canopy frame put cut the horizontal pipes in half and add more legs and rafters to make it stronger.
My wife used them at her craft sales and I added the extra legs and rafters to make pipes shorter to fit in her trailer but it made the frame soooo much stronger. it was unbelievable.

then put the metal on it
some thing like this and make the truss frames about 4-5 ft apart

COMPLEX FITTINGS FOR 1-3/8" OD TUBE

 

[zmoz]

Here's a quick and very rough sketch I made of what I want to make:

The sidewalls are 6' high, the roof angle I just guessed, 14' wide x 24' long. The "hoops" are spaced 4' apart so that one 12' sheet of steel could cover three of them. Everything else would pretty much be 1 3/8" pipe except the purlins would be 2x4. What do you guys think?

If I bent the pipe like this, I would only need 3 peices per hoop, (at 10' long) vs 4 peices plus extra parts to use fittings. The 10' length leaves a bunch of waste. I just wonder if the HF bender could handle that? Obviously the angles wouldn't be as sharp as they are in the sketch.

I can't really make trusses because I need the peak height to be somewhat low and then I wouldn't be able to fit a vehicle in there.

 

[terry.dinerman]

Love that "Sketchup"...!

 

[boggen]

do a search for "DIY green house cover" and/or "DIY pool cover" and/or "DIY pond cover"

each one will most likely bring back a different set of results.

many folks build green house style pond covers.
many folks build green house covers for year round gardens and like.

many kits out there, and more so simple fittings you can get that give different angles that a green house cover or like might need vs trying to use standard tees, 90s, 45s, 22.5 degree fitings. and you just supply the pipe.

 

[tommu56]

Don't forget the benders shoes are sized for pipe size

Tube size you are looking at is 1.375 od

between 1" and 1 1/4 pipe sizes
it wont fit the shoe properly and will most likely kink it.
pipe
size OD.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1/2"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] .84[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 3/4"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1.05[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1.32[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 1/4"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1.66[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 1/2"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1.90[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 2.38

[/FONT]

 

[zmoz]

Don't forget the benders shoes are sized for pipe size

Tube size you are looking at is 1.375 od

between 1" and 1 1/4 pipe sizes
it wont fit the shoe properly and will most likely kink it.
pipe
size OD.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1/2"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] .84[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 3/4"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1.05[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1.32[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 1/4"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1.66[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 1/2"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 1.90[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 2.38

[/FONT]

That's the major thing I've been wondering about. What if I used the 1.5" pipe die? Maybe with a peice of 1.5" steel pipe sliced in half on it? Or can I buy a die or different bender that might work better? I like the idea of these 1 3/8" fence rails, ten feet is cheaper than 1" EMT and about half the price of 1" schedule 40. But what is the "proper" way to bend them?

Obviously I'm not building an exhaust system so it doesn't have to be a perfect bend, but not totally kinked....