Used Value vs Age

[OzarkChris]

Monarch Tractor Announces World's Only Fully Electric Smart Tractor

The all-electric Monarch tractor can provide 40 horsepower (30 kilowatts) of continuous power and short-duration peak power up to 70 horsepower (55 kilowatts). Hydraulics can be controlled from the cloud. It is the only tractor in the world controlled by wire.

www.dtnpf.com

Wow! I never thought of that one: Deere’s new electric tractor tosses the battery | The Western Producer

You actually don't need a tractor.... you need a field robot: Electric tractors, agribots and regenerative agriculture | Greenbiz:

You actually don't need a tractor.... you need a field robot​

So I have a few questions about this whole concept. The prototype (I'm guessing) that is shown is pruning what, 1 limb/minute/30 seconds. Sounds like it might work really well on one of them "Zen Gardens" so it might be done at the end of each day. I'm pretty sure you could duct tape a "Zen Rake" to the back of the unit it could probably pull though. Assuming (and we know how that works out), they can make a unit 10-100 times the size (that can still fit between rows), so it can pull plows, seeders, sprayers, etc, etc. Where is the cost benefit for something that in the end costs 10-15 times more that the current technology? With 2 hired hands you can do all this at 1/10 the cost.

Y'all constantly preach about the environment and how fossil fuels are destroying the earth. I'm curious why you don't look at the garbage/carbon emissions/ pollution that is created by making solar cells! The tree huggers (which most are also on the alternative energy band wagon) will bankrupt entire towns/counties, etc because a spotted white owl is in a forest (doing better in select cut forests than old growth ones), but don't raise a finger or say a damn thing about all of the bald eagles and other wildlife that are killed every year by the wind powered generators. When folks ask why the wind farms get a pass on putting protection devices around the propellers its usually the same old dribble. "If we do that, your electricity would cost 10 times more", "it wouldn't be cost effective for us to have to do this" or my favorite "but this is green energy, we always think of the environment first!".

So in this last scenario, it's okay to kill our national bird (the one that if I mistakenly killed with my tractor, would have a massive fine, jail time etc imposed on me), but only if it is "for the better cause" (Who's better cause? And how do you define it?). It's okay to say it costs 10 times more and be exempted from regulatory crap, but only if it is for the "better cause" (ditto). Why It's okay to put crap in the landfill that I wouldn't be able to throw away if it is from manufacturing solar cells - "for the better cause" (ditto).

I could go on and on with the hypocrisy that these groups "justify" (in their minds), but for me, I'll just stay out here in God's country and hope y'all just keep that crap to yourself. Nice pipe dream for sure, but at least I can be hopeful.

 

[Cougsfan]

You actually don't need a tractor.... you need a field robot​

So I have a few questions about this whole concept. The prototype (I'm guessing) that is shown is pruning what, 1 limb/minute/30 seconds. Sounds like it might work really well on one of them "Zen Gardens" so it might be done at the end of each day. I'm pretty sure you could duct tape a "Zen Rake" to the back of the unit it could probably pull though. Assuming (and we know how that works out), they can make a unit 10-100 times the size (that can still fit between rows), so it can pull plows, seeders, sprayers, etc, etc. Where is the cost benefit for something that in the end costs 10-15 times more that the current technology? With 2 hired hands you can do all this at 1/10 the cost.

Y'all constantly preach about the environment and how fossil fuels are destroying the earth. I'm curious why you don't look at the garbage/carbon emissions/ pollution that is created by making solar cells! The tree huggers (which most are also on the alternative energy band wagon) will bankrupt entire towns/counties, etc because a spotted white owl is in a forest (doing better in select cut forests than old growth ones), but don't raise a finger or say a damn thing about all of the bald eagles and other wildlife that are killed every year by the wind powered generators. When folks ask why the wind farms get a pass on putting protection devices around the propellers its usually the same old dribble. "If we do that, your electricity would cost 10 times more", "it wouldn't be cost effective for us to have to do this" or my favorite "but this is green energy, we always think of the environment first!".

So in this last scenario, it's okay to kill our national bird (the one that if I mistakenly killed with my tractor, would have a massive fine, jail time etc imposed on me), but only if it is "for the better cause" (Who's better cause? And how do you define it?). It's okay to say it costs 10 times more and be exempted from regulatory crap, but only if it is for the "better cause" (ditto). Why It's okay to put crap in the landfill that I wouldn't be able to throw away if it is from manufacturing solar cells - "for the better cause" (ditto).

I could go on and on with the hypocrisy that these groups "justify" (in their minds), but for me, I'll just stay out here in God's country and hope y'all just keep that crap to yourself. Nice pipe dream for sure, but at least I can be hopeful.

I think we have to keep all this in perspective. You are right, there is no way robotic tractor is close to being ready for prime time. But so were fossil fuel tractors 110 years ago. The argument you made about 2 hired hands being cheaper is interesting because good luck on hiring 2 hired hands these days who are worth hiring.

And using the argument against the extreme environmentalist (which has some validity) to nullify the need for all environmental concerns also has its issues. The best answers are probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[OzarkChris]

I think we have to keep all this in perspective. You are right, there is no way robotic tractor is close to being ready for prime time. But so were fossil fuel tractors 110 years ago. The argument you made about 2 hired hands being cheaper is interesting because good luck on hiring 2 hired hands these days who are worth hiring.

And using the argument against the extreme environmentalist (which has some validity) to nullify the need for all environmental concerns also has its issues. The best answers are probably somewhere in the middle.

The argument you made about 2 hired hands being cheaper is interesting because good luck on hiring 2 hired hands these days who are worth hiring.

I don't live in the big city, so, at least out here, folks are raised to work hard and Not take handouts from the government unless it's absolutely necessary (and then it for the shortest time possible). Hired hands around here ARE available and well trained/taught from a young age how to work equipment - many folks round here actually have the hired hands living on their property as part of their wages.

And using the argument against the extreme environmentalist ...

I hadn't realized that solar panel manufacturers & wind powerplants were "extreme environmentalists". Do you have answers for those "for the better good" questions? Most of the "Alternative Energy" folks I've heard from hate Nuke energy too! Pretty clean energy compared to Solar manufacturering - Or don't we worry about the manufacturering processes "for the better good"?

The best answers are probably somewhere in the middle.

I at least somewhat agree. But believe it's probably more like 75% my side. The environmentalist side has way too much voice because they (try to) make everything personal and have the university lounge lizards on their side - which is then (tried to be) brainwashed into our children so they can't have an opinion (or risk being canceled or worse flunked out). Again, I don't believe these are extremists, but almost the "Norm" of the vocal minority!

 

[Hay Dude]

The argument you made about 2 hired hands being cheaper is interesting because good luck on hiring 2 hired hands these days who are worth hiring.

I don't live in the big city, so, at least out here, folks are raised to work hard and Not take handouts from the government unless it's absolutely necessary (and then it for the shortest time possible). Hired hands around here ARE available and well trained/taught from a young age how to work equipment - many folks round here actually have the hired hands living on their property as part of their wages.

And using the argument against the extreme environmentalist ...

I hadn't realized that solar panel manufacturers & wind powerplants were "extreme environmentalists". Do you have answers for those "for the better good" questions? Most of the "Alternative Energy" folks I've heard from hate Nuke energy too! Pretty clean energy compared to Solar manufacturering - Or don't we worry about the manufacturering processes "for the better good"?

The best answers are probably somewhere in the middle.

I at least somewhat agree. But believe it's probably more like 75% my side. The environmentalist side has way too much voice because they (try to) make everything personal and have the university lounge lizards on their side - which is then (tried to be) brainwashed into our children so they can't have an opinion (or risk being canceled or worse flunked out). Again, I don't believe these are extremists, but almost the "Norm" of the vocal minority!

Well said. I'm tired of hearing "Americans dont want to work hard anymore". Well, yeah there's more of them now than 50 years ago, but you can thank moral decay for that. But there's a lot of people in MY area who work their dang tails off everyday. I'm one of them. In fact, my whole family works hard.

 

[Torvy]

It is only 25% who don't work hard. 3 out of 4 of my kids work hard. I hope the other one grows up soon. (he's 20).

The farmers in my extended family all work hard, too. Hired hands usually live in a house on property owned by the ranch, but not at the main place. Some hands are better than others, but they don't have too much trouble finding good help.

Families still help each other out, too. In branding season, everyone helps everyone else to do a labor intensive task. Some great memories helping out. Never worked harder, nor felt better about my work.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

It is only 25% who don't work hard. 3 out of 4 of my kids work hard. I hope the other one grows up soon. (he's 20).

The farmers in my extended family all work hard, too. Hired hands usually live in a house on property owned by the ranch, but not at the main place. Some hands are better than others, but they don't have too much trouble finding good help.

Families still help each other out, too. In branding season, everyone helps everyone else to do a labor intensive task. Some great memories helping out. Never worked harder, nor felt better about my work.

Please send them to my state because nobody wants to work down here.

 

[Torvy]

Please send them to my state because nobody wants to work down here.

Sorry, the oldest almost went to 'Bama, but took the deal from OU instead. His gf just passed the Texas Bar, so I doubt they will want to move.

I wish I could send you the 20 yo as an old school apprentice.

 

[Tony H]

"If the reliability of all the environmental crap was so good, there would be no need to exempt the US military from having to comply."

That right there is the argument of arguments that destroys everything the EPA and the government is saying. My hats off to you for pointing this out as I have never heard it said until now.

I'm in the electronics business. It is funny how a few years back (10ish). RoHS complaints meant no more Lead solder. Had to use silver. Of course it was a nightmare. Footprint on circuitboards that work with soft leaf would not work with silver. SMT component were threatening, not to mention that the hard brittle silver would have components breaking off the board during vibration tests... Guess what, the govt that stuffed this down are throats for consumers exempted themselves from it for govt designs. America, land of artificial freedom

 

[MHarryE]

I guess I started this mess. A few observations:

Tier 4/Stage 5 tractors are so hated that lead times to get new tractors can now be over a year.

Sales in the 100 HP and lower are higher than they have ever been - industry numbers through August are the numbers at which I am looking.

A multi-year viewing of large farmers with YouTube channels found most making use of the electronics available in order to be productive. Trade off relatively new tractors in order to get one with newer software and it’s added capabilities.

Finding workers in rural areas is no new problem. My father-in-law had trouble finding farm labor in the 1970’s. He grew about 100 acres of vegetables in the Kansas City area. He ended up being dependent on itinerant farm workers but they dried up. Now my brother-in-law continues the operation, downsized to 5 acres of the highest value specialty crops supplemented by buying and selling from other farmers. Let’s face it - I’ve had my time in the trenches weekends when help was needed picking beans, tomatoes, sweet corn, 90 degree heat with 90% humidity. This northern guy can’t take it. My kids, too, severed their summers helping grandpa - ones now a veterinarian, the other a CFO. Get the same schooling as dad and get off the down and dirty farm work.

And after my retirement, I ended up doing custom farm work, but no old tractors. My body’s too old for that. My job was developing and validating the electronics and I’m using them. My tillage and planting are GPS guided. My main tractor cost 4 times my wife’s latest BMW, but it’s the only way I’m going to be out in the field. Yes, I do my own oil changes, filters, greasing, but not required every 100 hours (engine oil, filters) like my old school combine.

My tier 4 L6060 was such a big improvement over my L5740 that I hate to get rid of it, but the papers are signed for whenever my dealer can come up with a 50 hp larger tractor. I need reliability because my customers rely on me - who’d have thought of that when I retired and looked for some way to keep from getting bored. But over the last 2 decades I’d gone from mechanical injection 4 liter engines putting out 107 HP max to the same 4 liter size now cranking out 225 HP. Much more economical than the 6 liter it replaced at the top due to high pressure timed injection burning fuel more efficiently, and 2 liters less swept volume creating friction loss. Inefficient mechanical governor to electric monitoring that can give a 25 hp burst to get you through tough spots, then hold you back to not damage the power train. And like most large tractors, more power when using the PTO because that isn’t loading the transmission. Things like this are why the farmers staying in business make use of the latest and have backlogged the tractor supply chain.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I guess I started this mess. A few observations:

Tier 4/Stage 5 tractors are so hated that lead times to get new tractors can now be over a year.

Sales in the 100 HP and lower are higher than they have ever been - industry numbers through August are the numbers at which I am looking.

A multi-year viewing of large farmers with YouTube channels found most making use of the electronics available in order to be productive. Trade off relatively new tractors in order to get one with newer software and it’s added capabilities.

Finding workers in rural areas is no new problem. My father-in-law had trouble finding farm labor in the 1970’s. He grew about 100 acres of vegetables in the Kansas City area. He ended up being dependent on itinerant farm workers but they dried up. Now my brother-in-law continues the operation, downsized to 5 acres of the highest value specialty crops supplemented by buying and selling from other farmers. Let’s face it - I’ve had my time in the trenches weekends when help was needed picking beans, tomatoes, sweet corn, 90 degree heat with 90% humidity. This northern guy can’t take it. My kids, too, severed their summers helping grandpa - ones now a veterinarian, the other a CFO. Get the same schooling as dad and get off the down and dirty farm work.

And after my retirement, I ended up doing custom farm work, but no old tractors. My body’s too old for that. My job was developing and validating the electronics and I’m using them. My tillage and planting are GPS guided. My main tractor cost 4 times my wife’s latest BMW, but it’s the only way I’m going to be out in the field. Yes, I do my own oil changes, filters, greasing, but not required every 100 hours (engine oil, filters) like my old school combine.

My tier 4 L6060 was such a big improvement over my L5740 that I hate to get rid of it, but the papers are signed for whenever my dealer can come up with a 50 hp larger tractor. I need reliability because my customers rely on me - who’d have thought of that when I retired and looked for some way to keep from getting bored. But over the last 2 decades I’d gone from mechanical injection 4 liter engines putting out 107 HP max to the same 4 liter size now cranking out 225 HP. Much more economical than the 6 liter it replaced at the top due to high pressure timed injection burning fuel more efficiently, and 2 liters less swept volume creating friction loss. Inefficient mechanical governor to electric monitoring that can give a 25 hp burst to get you through tough spots, then hold you back to not damage the power train. And like most large tractors, more power when using the PTO because that isn’t loading the transmission. Things like this are why the farmers staying in business make use of the latest and have backlogged the tractor supply chain.

So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the electronics have advanced tractor efficiency and refinement a lot in the last several years due to the adoption of the technology that it has brought?