Welding advice

hayden · May 20, 2001

I'm interested in suggestions on welding equipment from those of you with experience. I've done gas welding in the past but never Arc welding, but I'm considering getting a small Arc or Mig welder and am looking for advice. I'd be doing small jobs like welding hooks to buckets, ends and brackets on hydraulic cylinders for a Top and Tilt (I'm hooked on getting one too) and various tractor gadgets.

My biggest question is whether a small welder, where small is something that runs on 120V, 20A max will do these types of jobs. My place in Vermont only has 120V power (solar house) so if I need 220V I'll probably pass. I also don't want to spend more that $500.

I've looked at the various 120V welders in Northern Tools catalog and they claim to be able to weld up to 3/16", or maybe 1/4" in a single pass. I'm thinking I can do most of what I want with that, but don't know if the claims are exagerated.

I also don't know if I should look for straight ARC welders, wire feed welders, with or without gas.

Any advice is welcome - thanks

Peter

Bird · May 20, 2001

Peter, I have a cheap little Miller 120v Arc welder (stick welder) that does nearly anything I want to do. You probably do need a 30 amp circuit to plug it into. The Mig welders are probably even better. My brother has one and likes it better, but I haven't used it enough to get the hang of it yet, since I'm accustomed to the old fashioned one.

Bird

FarmerBob · May 21, 2001

Hi Peter...

I recently purchased a Hobart Handler 135 MIG welder and can tell you that it will handle most any welding job you'll want to do on your tractor. It's a 120V 20amp welder and I use it on a 20amp ground-fault circuit and have never had the circuit trip. I shopped for welders for a long time before buying, and actually found this one being advertised on eBay by a welding supply company. The price was much better than any I had found ($395) and it was shipped directly from Hobart (Miller actually owns Hobart) factory new. I'm truly impressed with the little fella /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. I have also had comments made by several welding veterans that the Hobart is the most dependable and well-built of all the small 120V welders on the market.

I started out using flux-core wire, which eliminates the need for shielding gas, but have recently purchased an 80cf tank and run a tri-mix shielding gas. The tri-mix (75% Argon, 23% CO2, and 2% Oxygen) does a much cleaner weld than the flux-core, and the 2% Oxygen gives you a little hotter arc. Most everything I've welded thus far has been 3/16" mild steel and I get excellent penetration with single-pass welding using .035 ER70S6 wire. I have no doubt that it will handle 1/4" equally well. I highly recommend this unit for most all welding work you'll find to do on small equipment. This unit is also capable of welding stainless and aluminum by simply changing wire and shielding gas.

FarmerBob

hess · May 21, 2001

I'm sure guys like richfrompa or TraderMark could give you a better response as to what is best, but I'd like to comment.
I have a 240v stick welder that will weld any thickness of metal that I would ever need in my shop. But, the key is not necessarily in the weld, but rather in the melding of the two metals together. In other words, you want to be able to heat the materials to such a degree, so that the weld actually penetrates the two metals.
My father-in-law has a 120v wire feed (which is incredibly easy to use), but I'd be reluctant to to use it on the thicker pieces of metal for the simple fact that it does not penetrate the metal as effectively. Some will say that you can strengthen the weld by making several passes, but from what I have gathered, you will not get the same degree of strength.
Having said all of that...the quality of my weld using a wire feed is much better than my welds using a stick - so which is actually stronger?
In your case, I'd go with the 120v wire feed. You'll love it.

john_bud · May 21, 2001

Peter,

You have gotten some good advise so far. I agree completely, go with the MIG welder. But, don't use the flux core wire. I use C02 gas, as it is about as cheap as I am, but it works harder! I bought one of the Italian welders from Harbor Tools about 12 years ago and used it with good success on thin metal (1/8" to 3/16) and never went above ~5% duty cycle. It was real good for that. BUT, when I started welding thicker metal (3/8 to 1/4) it just couldn't do more than a couple 12" passes without overheating and losing penetration or popping the 20A breaker.

I have heard from several of my friends that Miller and Lincoln both have good welders in the 90A to 110A range that run on 20A 120V and do a much better job than my old cheapie. Moral of the story: Cheap works, but in the long run, it pays to spend a little bit more. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I sold my little welder to a buddy and bought a Lincoln SP255. Now, I can weld 3/8 steel all day long and get good solid welds! With your power limitations, you can't go overboard like that, but look into the other units people talked about and you won't be sorry! Oh, don't forget to budget for the gas tank lease and the regulator purchase in with the welder.

Have fun!

John Bud.

RJohnson · May 24, 2001

Hess is right about welding on thick materials, but one thing you can do when you need to weld on thick material with a small diameter electrode is preheat the part. The larger and thicker the material, the greater tendency to draw the heat away from the weld puddle. This makes the weld freeze fast and reduce the amount of weld penetration into thicker parts. Take a torch and preheat the thicker parts to about 200 to 300F and this will reduce the rapid freezing of the weld and also allow for better weld penetration. Happy welding!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Randy

Anonymous Poster · May 29, 2001

I have a Lincoln stick welder AC - DC straight or reverse polarity that will weld about anything that isn't too thin B U T my little Lincoln Weld Pak 100 runs on 15-20 amps at 120 volts and although it may require multiple passes will do most of what I need but may take a while due to lower power output. I use mostly innershield flux cored wire for mild steel but have the accessories for using gas. Usually I use gas for aluminum or stainless but CO2 is good with mild steel, cheap, and in some instances saves a lot of time cleaning/grinding during a multi-pass situation. Changing from steel to aluminum or stainless is N O T just a matter of changing the wire! You need to change the flexible feed tube (whatever the pro will call it) or you will get bad contamination in alum or stainless weld. This is a pain in the backside. So much that I threaten to buy another unit just to not have to do that. Oh, by the way, the stick welder requires a 50 amp 240 volt circuit. Probably not what someone off the grid would want. There is another way! Once upon a time in my consultant days I did some work for a small outfit that was developing a portable battery operated welder. It ran on two 100 AH 12 volt car batteries in series and could weld about 20 each 3/32 electrodes before needing a charge. It would weld with larger electrodes as it was good for about 125 amps but of course not 20 before a charge. In the field the typical setup was to have a 12 volt vehicle with two batteries. A switching arrangement allowed charging the batteries in parallel when not welding and using the batteries in series when welding. The one batt stayed wired into the vehicle in the normal way and the engine would be left running if a lot of welding was done to avoid running the batt down below starting requirements. I designed a mod that allowed this unit to TIG weld from about 3 amps (you might want to repair tin cans?) to about 100 amps.

There are also special controllers to make an automotive alternator into a welder as well as small engine powered welders. It can be seriously wasteful of power but you can use a couple (or more) 12 volt batts in series with a resistive load to DC stick weld. Open circuit voltage is the series batt voltage, arc voltage depends on series resistive load and electrode size and position etc. Note: Series resistive load must have high power disapation capability. A series parallel bank of light bulbs has been used. You screw some lights out to reduce arc heat. I would experiment with toasters, waffle irons, clothes irons, electrick water heaters or whatever but nothing with any active electronics (solid state stuff) just pure resistive loads. An inductor with a sufficiently high current rating in series with the electrode holder will help start the arc when you scratch the rod on the workpiece. An inductor could be a transformer winding or wind a coil of sufficiently heavy wire around a bundle of annealed coathangers or something like that. You can anneal the coathangers by taking them up to max temp in your cooking oven and then bringing them back down slowly (consult appropriate engineering texts if you need E X A C T instructions). If you remove the varnish or paint from the coathangers prior to heating you will stay married or if single, not gas the cat.

Don't be afraid to march to the beat of a different drum, however measured or far away.

Patrick

hayden · Jun 3, 2001

I got the Hobart Handler 135. Nice machine. I welded the swivel ends on the first hydraulic cylinder for my TnT kit. Came out pretty well for a first try.

Peter

StoneHeartFarm · Jun 3, 2001

Happy Welding! Just don't pull the bone head move I did when I first got mine, and light your pants on fire! Lotta sparks there.

SHF

Harv · Jun 4, 2001

<font color=blue>don't pull the bone head move I did when I first got mine, and light your pants on fire!</font color=blue>

Hope you weren't injured when that happened, Steven! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Now, having said that, I'd kill for a picture of that one. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

StoneHeartFarm · Jun 4, 2001

Harv,

I've always laughed at my wife for baking something in the oven for an hour and then grabbing the hot pan with bare hands. Right up to the time I finished welding a bracket, took off my glove and grabbed ahold of the blamed thing! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

They should be required to sell welders with a bucket of cold water! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

SHF

richfromPA · Jun 8, 2001

hey hayden,
good choice going with a 110v mig. my first mig is a lincoln sp125 and mostly have run flux cored but have run solid with co2. hobart, miller and lincoln are all good machines. play around and you will find alot of different methods for different material thicknesses. preheat and the use of different gas mixtures can produce many diff. results. i myself, am not a welding expert. i have made and fixed a heck of alot of things using stick, mig and tig. materials i have welded are steel, stainless, aluminum and most recently zirconium. there are so many diff. parameters that it is mind boggling. the guys at weld supply houses can really help with all your diff. senarios. ya know, with 18 yrs of messing with it and all the stuff ive done, i would never say im a welder. a welder is like uncle george who was here at work when i started workin for my dad 20 yrs ago. he has welded just about everything there is to stick together. any weldable exotics, titanium zirconium etc. , the kind of guy that could weld perfect circles standing on his head! if you look closely, you will find older guys at weld suppliers that had 40 yrs of it and now are more like application enginneers that love to help. anyone can run a pass, but knowing the correct operating parameters is what makes the differnece. anyway, i went off on a tangent, good luck with yer new machine. the 110v mig machine, in my opinion is the most versitile, cheapest thing out there. ive fixed alot of stuff with my little lincoln at the tree nursery that hasnt broke with that. ya never know, in time you might, like me, go buy an engine driven welder and get the wire feeder for it. a year and a half ago i bought a new miller 225 bobcat and this winter bought the mig wire feeder for it. of course, the ole lady dont say much about tools since she can look outside and see the over 8000.00 worth of trees ive planted in exchange for welding repair at the nursery. have fun and avoid fumes.
rich

StoneHeartFarm · Jun 8, 2001

Hayden,

Just a thought, buy a good pair of gloves. (Expense is not optional). They'll save your fingers from a lot of scorching. And, pick up a better helmet than the one that probably came with your unit. You'll appreciate both.

SHF

Anonymous Poster · Jun 8, 2001

Good gloves are great. Also make sure you have no exposed skin, it'l get sunburned real bad. I recommend the extra expense of an automatic darkening glass in your helmet. It makes things easier, a lot easier. You can see what you are doing with or without the arc going and never have to defy whiplash to "POP" your helment down while trying not to move the stinger...

Patrick

mlmartin · Jun 9, 2001

Another safety tip for newbie welders who smoke: Never have a plastic butane lighter (bic, et al) in your pocket while welding. There was a fatality in my area not too long ago: a lighter in a front shirt pocket exploded when a large molten glob hit it.

Matthew

StoneHeartFarm · Jun 9, 2001

Haven't used the auto helmets. I've always worried about trusting my eyes to someone else's electronics. What if the darned thing just doesn't work (batteries dead, caught a random surge from the welder, etc.)?

Anybody had any experience?

SHF

richfromPA · Jun 9, 2001

hey SHF,
i use the speed glass most of the time. havent had any problems at all except outside. i have to adjust the sensitivity knob a little. other than that it is great. it is good when you have to weld an area where you cant afford to miss yer mark. i have only had to put in a battery once in the last 3 years. you will know when it gives up. when i turn it on, i hold it up and look thru the lens and press the button and the lens changes. if not the battery is beat. ahh a little flash wont hurt, the lens is naturally darker anyway and it is alot better than a flash with no helmet. the worst thing other than welding with no helmet is an outsider working in the same area. they are the people who have the problems, even the reflection from the walls can mess up eyes. get one and change the battery every 6 months if yer concerned about it. there are times when i start to weld and the helmet isnt on. it has an auto shutoff and if im doin alot of grinding and it shuts off and i start a pass i know it isnt on. the flash doesnt even compare to when i weld and forget to put the helmet on. dont try that at home. no on the serious side, get one and you will be fine. i got hundreds of hours under the helmet and everythings fine. good luck. also it is the best thing for a beginner or rookie. i can remeber the days when id start welding a foot away from where i wanted to be. id flip the lid down and my welding hand would go with it.
rich

john_bud · Jun 9, 2001

I don't have one of the auto helmets, but a buddy of mine does. He has well over 30 years of experienc with torch and spark. His is the latest design with the solar cell powering the darkening feature. (NO BATTERIES!) Also, the new ones lighten up much faster than the older ones.

His comment on using the helmet for the first time was "WOW!" Totally enjoys welding with it. If I had the $$$ I would get one too!

John Bud

StoneHeartFarm · Jun 9, 2001

If it runs on solar, can you weld inside with it? Or does it have some kind of back up system for working in a darker environment?

SHF

hayden · Jun 9, 2001

thanks for all the tips. I've got a pair of long cuff gloves from my gas welding days, and I bought a full face shield (the welder didn't come with anything). I'll wait on the auto dimming shields unless I find myself welding much more than I expect.

Thanks again,

Peter