what Ida done different on my BX buy

[r0GuE]

bx new to me: Unfortunatly, I am taking plenty of heat for my honesty as it is. I have placed this post to alert people new to this market that some dealers will treat their $10,000 - $15,000 investment like scrap metal if they are not specific in their expectations. Some dealers seem to take offense at being called to task for their professionalism. They feel that i am unfair to them and that they should be permitted to do as they please. I do not feel I am being unfair in pointing out what is occuring fairly regularly. However, I do feel it would be unfair to flame my dealer by name when he has probably no idea that this site exists and cannot defend himself.
My post is not to punish my bufoons but to alert those whose hard earned money is about to be spent that they might want to be carefull.
That said, perhaps CaseKub3 would like to post his dealerships name to save those who feel they are picky the time that would be wasted going to his shop. He doesn't want to sell tractors to them!


Rogue

 

[r0GuE]

Whoa.. You slipped one in while I was typing.
Ok, maybe you do turn a few away. Maybe rightfully so. Maybe some customers aren't worth dealing with. Certainly some dealers aren't. If you itemize what I had reccomended requesting from a dealer. You might notice that there is nothing unreasonable listed. Perhaps your mind has assigned an imaginary Rogue who is condescending in demeanor. I don't reccomend someone be condescending. I am very polite in my dealings with my dealer.
We'll call it a draw. I understand your view point. I think if I had bought my tractor from you, I probably wouldn't have had a problem. To be perfectly honest, my dealer did take care of me. But, I see in retrospect that if I had moved proactivly to explain that this tractor will be my personal tractor which I wish to run for decades rather than a unit in a corporate fleet. He may have acted diferently.
Past is past, I'm just trying to help others on the site.

Rogue

 

[Don_Curley]

Rogue,

Although I am a total newbie to all things tractors (except my "manifest destiny" to possess one), I for one appreciate your post and your positions on the subject. I openly admit that I am by nature a picky SOB, and that I value the money I have which is hard-earned by definition and practice. And yet, I believe as you seem to be, that I am innately trustful of my fellow human beings in that I initially trust and typically believe in folks and business entities until they do something that causes me to rethink that otherwise open and reasonable approach. And believe me, I have had a lifetime of being treated with respect and customer courtesy as well as quite the opposite.

Your post has stimulated some good discourse and I for one support your efforts and thoughts in general. Moreover, this is not intended to be any form or veiled slam against CaseKub3, who has also made some well considered points from the other side of the coin (although I agree, it would be nice if he definitively identified his dealership, as it sounds like a first-rate operation ... all things considered).

Don

 

[r0GuE]

Thanks for the reassurance. When I first began to look in to tractors, I found a few sites that discussed them. I was led to this site by Trescrow, who among others taught me the virtues of Kubota and tuned my needs to a BX2200 (thank God). One of the criteria that focused me on such a heavy duty "serious" tractor for what is essentially a 1 acre flat lot, was that I really wanted a machine that, with care, would last for decades. While I intended to tenderly beat my craft from time to time, I was greatly disappointed when I found so many obvious mistreatments and oversights when my tractor was delivered. I was disappointed that the person delivering it was so unknowledgeable and that the mechanic was so cavalier regarding the issues I raised.
I was amazed at the harmony of voices on this site which echoed my experiences and in some cases where much worse.
Essentially what I expected was something similar to a new car buy. It is visually and functionally (possibly anally) perfect on delivery. It is up to me if I want to race rally with it in the Baja 500 or if I want to laminate it and place it in my garage.
All that aside. My desire with this post was to return to the group (primarily the new members) what was given to me when I was searching. Especially since it seemed I had a new viewpoint to add.
CaseKub3 has valid points (from his viewpoint anyways, since none of his points are valid in the sense that the customer is always right. I don't think the saying is that the customer is always right, so long as he is an accomodating mushpie).
On a side note, I don't vend as much credence to those who don't register and participate in the newsgroup. And I give kudos to you for registering. The BX is an excellent machine. If you feel it is too much tractor for you, you are probably wrong. If you feel it is too little, you are probably wrong. (that's a broad statement, but fun to say!!).
Good luck in your search. I'm sure you (like any intelligent person), will apply my reccomendation with tact.

Rogue

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Don, I am sorry, I meant to tell you where I worked last night, but had sat long enough at the 'puter already. 1st let me say that we are a friendly dealership who welcomes customers, I in NO WAY meant to make it seem that customers were not a valuable commodity (obviously I like a fat wallet!). My views are from conversations with the rest of our sales department, and the actual results of sales gone bad, they may represent a defacto practice, but they are strictly my views, not those of Kubota, or Goodrich Implement Inc. in Johnson City, NY
Rogue, OK...it's a draw!!!! Hope you have good luck from here on out with that BX, and feel free to e-maile me ; CaseKub3@msn.com if I can ever be of help!

 

[Bird]

CaseKub3, I think you're right in calling it a draw; you're both right. There are a few dealerships of the type Rogue described (in fact I know of one in my area), but fortunately, I think they're in the minority. And I've had enough experience in retail and repair businesses to know there are customers whom you simply cannot please and whom you do not want.

Bird

 

[Don_Curley]

CaseKub3,

I appreciate your follow-up post, but there's really no need to apologize. As I said, you made some perfectly good points from a dealership point of view, which can certainly be as valid as those counterpoint thoughts from a consumer vantage. And Bird is correct ... you and Rogue were both right. And although I do try to be reasonable, I am sure my pickiness has probably caused someone on your side of the fence to think I may be more trouble than I am worth at some point in time.

Anyway, I do feel it is admirable that someone from a dealer takes the time to stay in touch with this type of free-flowing board ... and it does take a certain amount of integrity (and perhaps guts) to stick your neck out and express your opinions ... even if they run counter to someone else's position. So I for one applaud your taking the time to join in on the conversations as I think it is healthy to get as many perspectives as possible on any given subject. I also want to thank you for your helpful and informative posts on my BL4690A backhoe thread.

Don

 

[70boss]

Interesting post... I am not in the tractor business, but I manage a large car dealership and we sell thousands of vehicles each year. Sometimes when you are in the business, you lose sight of the fact that for each individual, the car/tractor buying is a very major event in their lives. Since we " in the business" use, and work around new stuff everyday, we lose some of the emotion of the purchase. On the other hand, I can relate to Casecub concerning the desire to NOT sell a vehicle to some people. In my experience, the people who pay the most, are the happiest customer. Happy with theor vehicle, happy with thier dealer, overall...completely satisfied. The grinders, 10 dealership shoppers, etc. they many times think someone else got a better deal. Some people cannot recognize a good deal.
Rogue, I understand how you feel. I recently bought a B7500, and I bought it from the dealer that stayed incontact with me for 11 months. The unit was delivered with a 3-4 inch scratch on the hood. He told me about it, and wanted me to see it. The scratch is still there, and I will probably live with it, o fix it myself. But it looks like he is going to do the 50 hour service for free....that is the plan anyway. 14 hours on the clock, and the machine works great. Have fun with yours!!

 

[r0GuE]

That is pretty much my point entirely. The dealers loose sight of who their customers are and what their customers desire. I don't mean to make enemies here but I'll be blunt. IT"S YOUR JOB!!
Your job is not just to front some paper, rip out a tractor from a crate and buss it to my home.
Your job (even if it's hard) is to make me happy. I pay your bills. I am the customer. Don't like providing good service to some people who are difficult? Then it's time to find a line of work that does not involve customer service. A dealership should be defined by customer service. That's why large corporations supply through dealers. I don't want to go on a rant again, but quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of dealers complaining about customers who are picky about their 10 thousand dollar + machines. If you don't want complaints, unpack the machines with care. Touch up what needs touched up. Send back what needs sent back. Buy some damned paper towels rather than cleaning the dip sticks on your filthy pants.
I swear to God I just can't get past the simple fact that the customers always right. I use it in my line of work. If the customer expects reasonable care, give it to them.
Perhaps I shouldn't have even put the onus on the consumer in my post. Perhaps I should give some ideas to dealers on what a reasonable (picky does not mean I am unreasonable, it means I am picky) customer might want. A little reminder to those who forget that tractors cost about a years worth of disposable post tax income.

Rogue

 

[RPM]

This might strike you as really coming out of left field - but here goes.

I think this is a great case for immigration. The US as a whole is at the point where some people in some service jobs just don't seem to care. They believe they have the right to the job - not that they are there to serve the customer (and be paid for it).

I'm all for encouraging more immigration to bring in some <font color=blue>skilled</font color=blue> folks who would really appreciate the work. It's good for the country as a whole. Would either make your buffoon get smart in a hurry or would get him replaced.

Maybe this is too off topic ...

 

[70boss]

I agree with SOME of what you say, but " the customer is always right" does not apply carte blanche. It is both a privlage to be able to sell something to someone, AND it is a privledge (not an absolute right) to buy something from someone. There is a line of pickiness...which is fine, and being unreasonable. I enjoy exceeding my customers expectations in the car business, but I don't mind letting the store down the road take care of the unreasonable customer from hell, that you end up living with for years, and not making any thing on anyway. The profit margins on a $10,000 tractor are very slim, just like they are on new vehicles in that price range. Sometimes it is just not worth the aggravation, especially when the sterotypes start flying. After all, we are all human and mistakes sometimes happen. It just depends on the resolve of the customer and service provider. My post was neutral, since I have experience on both sides of the fence. Life is too short to get all worked up all the time.

 

[r0GuE]

It is not only a privilege to sell me a tractor. It is a profession. As a dealer, you produce nothing. You essentially work for me (the consumer) and for the corporation that produces the tractor.
It is NOT a privilege for me to buy a tractor from you. This is not your grandfathers WWII battle helmet, a cherished family possession. This tractor is merely a commodity produced by a large multi-national corporation. As a dealer, you are employed by the corporation to sell that product. I as a consumer am in no way employed or otherwise bound to purchase it.
I think that clearly says it. You start with nothing, borrow material, add service (or in my case, headaches and scratches), and skim profit from it.
That said,
Clearly I do not mean that a customer can come in MFing you and complaining about the shade of orange or level of armorall sheen.
It is up to you, the dealer, to determine the profit margin you need to make to operate your bussiness successfully. Once you've done that, it is up to me, the consumer, to determine which dealer offers the best value in price, tempered with my "gut" feeling on what type of service I can expect. That in itself is a difficult decision. The reason I feel so strongly throughout this thread is that I have found that there isn't much difference in treatment between dealers service (at least in my area), it's all lousy. (as I said earlier, this is not only in the tractor industry but everybody everywhere / a general statement to be sure).
I will admit that the further I go with this, the more I find myself blowing it out of proportion. My experience really seemed to rock me more out of the disrespect that I felt because of how my property was treated. The tractor wasn't ruined or anything. The problem was rather minor, and the dealer took care of me. In fact, I would probably reccomend him with the caviates that I started this thread with.
Oh well, I'm tired of this argument. I'll never change the mindset of "it's a privelege to buy the tractor".
It's so obsurd a thought that it must be a foundational thought, firmly held and not to be redirected.
I mean no disrespect, only disagreement.

Rogue

 

[r0GuE]

As for immagration of skilled labor. I am no protectionist. I have traveled the world in my profession. I have seen those who work so hard for nothing and have no way to better themselves.
I don't want to digress too far in to polotics. It's hot enough in here just talkin tractors!!

Rogue

 

[Anonymous Poster]

***The reason I feel so strongly throughout this thread is that I have found that there isn't much difference in treatment between dealers service (at least in my area), it's all lousy. ***


If all the dealers service is lousy in your area how do you know your attitude towards them doesn't play into consideration when they deal with you. You may be a nice guy but from your post you do come out sounding like someone who will never be happy unless they give you the tractor and the truck they deliver it on for free. If all the dealers in your area are lousy then how do they stay in business? Probally because most people do not find them lousy. I do think your biggest problem is your attitude and you may think that your coming across as gracious but they may perceive you as arrogant or unsatisfiable and in return are not happy to deal with you. I have no problems with my dealers in my area, some have high prices and for that reason I do not buy much from them but every time I go into the dealerships they are kind enough to answer my questions wether its about a 1950 allis chalmers B or a 1999 New Holland TS 90.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it might not be entirely your dealers fault that you are having problems with them but maybe also your fault.

 

[r0GuE]

I suppose there's no way to definatilvely prove this to you. If I seem hostile I can assure you that the hostility is borne of mistreatment not vice versa.

When I say that all dealers are like this, it comes from multiple peoples references. I only have personal experience with the one. And as I've said, it really wasn't all that bad. I know that I am not inducing this service because I didn't have the problem with the dealer until my tractor showed up. I did not have any issues with my dealer until the 17 year old kid dumped the tractor off and it had scratches and dings and wrong fluid levels and stickers on it that I mentioned I'd rather not have.
I said ABSOLUTLY nothing in this post about wanting something for nothing. I paid slightly more for my tractor at the dealer I bought it from because I felt his demeanor was better and that I would get better service. I did not bring out all of my points that I mentioned in the start of this post prior to my purchase. I would have never thought that I needed to. That is why I made this post, to alert others that they MAY want to think about their expectations and verbalize them if need be.
Arrogance you say? I suppose you might get that because I took some time to choose my words carefully, but I am not arrogant. I'll never convince you of this, nor do I wish to expend any more time trying.
I think that the dealers that spoke up in this thread say it all for me, they admit (to their credit) that it is easy to forget that the customer looks at the tractor (especially when brand new) as more than just a shovel or hammer.
The fact that I get the resistance I am seeing just reinforces my proposition that nobody cares what the customer wants and will quickly throw blame on a customer with issues.
If it makes you feel better about yourself and/or the service you provide as a dealer, then knock yourself out. I'm a horribly person who wants everything for free. If you don't keep your eye on me, I'll kick your dog. What can I say.
I could not have described the conditions of my predicament any clearer. If you still think ill of me then so be it. I didn't write this thread to argue about whether I'm too picky or not. i wrote it so that the young kid shelling hard jack for his tractor can mention to the salesman that he'd rather have the tractor strapped and not chained. etc. etc.



Rogue

 

[70boss]

Robert...Amen... I'm with ya'. What strikes me as funny, is that I think Rogue thinks I'm a tractor dealer...NOT. I actually, as part of my post relayed a very similar situation to his....a scratched tractor at delivery. So you say the problem was really minor...ok..thats good...and that the dealer did want to correct it and make it ok...sounds even better. So then you think it's OK to sterotype, generalize and put down "all dealers", and the "17 year old buffoon". Whats wrong with being a 17 year old ( probably not the case if he was driving a company truck) who brings out your tractor? Here is an angle for you... did you pay the full price for the tractor? Probably not. So why in this case do you expect the full service? I negotiated a great price, and the dealer was really sick about telling me about the scratch on my B7500, but guess what, 14 hours on the clock and there are a couple other "beauty marks" to match. Think about that, discount price, discount service. I was amused by your first post at the similarities to my own delivery experience. But like others, turn sour by the rhetoric. Okay..nuff said, back to tractors and such.

Rob
AKA "70boss"
the 29 year old who is probably to young to own a new Kubota tractor, 63 acres, 2 houses, a big shed, lots of stuff, over 15 classic mustangs in the last 9 years, .....oh yeah, no I didn't win the lottery, I work my A#$ off EXCEEDING my customers expectations in the car business.

 

[r0GuE]

I didn't call the 17 year old a bufoon, I called him a kid. He was genuinly concerned though unknowledgeable.
I don't care if your a dealer or not, I'm speaking to the dealers.
You were amused by the original post, good, clearly I tried to be humorous, some find the content in a humorous format to be arrogance.
As for discount tractor, discount service, I wish I could have bought it with no service. Most of my problems were born at the dealer.
rhetoric:
Yeah, I'll admit I'm tired of it too, but I find it impossible not to argue on the issue of customer service.
The irony to this unending post is that in fact, I am now reasonably happy with my dealer. Though I really hope I never have to take the tractor back to them for any reason. They are good people but they lack care for details.
I am also very happy with my tractor (BX2200)
I do agree that it has all been said here and its time to talk tractors again.

Rogue

 

[DarinRay]

AKA "70boss"
the 29 year old who is probably to young to own a new Kubota tractor, 63 acres, 2 houses, a big shed, lots of stuff, over 15 classic mustangs in the last 9 years, .....oh yeah, no I didn't win the lottery, I work my A#$ off EXCEEDING my customers expectations in the car business.

NO IT'S ABOUT TIME....29 YOUR OLD MAN SHOOT I'M 24 AND AM GOING TO BLOW YOUR DOORS OFF BY THEN. Now if I meant all that don't you think that would sound arrogant like your too young post? And no I'm not 24 just for the point. And no that wouldn't just be confident that's arrogant with a capital A. So let's see Mr. to young to have all you have let's all try to be more thankful for what we have and not just talk tihs. Sorry I had to vent.....Attitudes

Darin

 

[70boss]

If you post what you feel, you shouldn't have to apologize. If people think I'm arrogant, so be it. Very confident and proud, yes, arrogant, sometimes yes. The point wasn't to brag, I don't do that usually unless I am talking about family. I was just venting over some gross generalizations about dealers, customer service, and younger people in general. Thankful?? Now you make assumptions about things you don't know, why would you think I am not thankful...just doesn't make sense.
I did get a kick out of your post though, for a minute I thought I'd have to pick the brain of a 24 year old to get a few pointers. Oh well, a missed opportunity.

Rob

 

[DarinRay]

In my post I stated, " let's all try to be more thankful." Not you aren't thankful which I wouldn't know like you said. But anyway this is getting waaaaaaayyyyyy away from tractors. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif BTW I am 1 year your elder so respect me /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Like stated many times in this forum time is too precious to waste on arguing at least for me it is so for myself I call a truce.

Darin