What would you like to see the tractor manufacturers to make.

[4570Man]

What is the flow? (cannot find any specs on the 212su) But what do you have other than 4 wheel steer that a 75HP ag tractor dont have?

A TLB will severely out dig with the backhoe and out lift with the loader. The TLBs are built heavier to withstand the stronger backhoe and loader and are built to take constant abuse from them.

 

[roadhunter]

What is the flow? (cannot find any specs on the 212su)

But what do you have other than 4 wheel steer that a 75HP ag tractor dont have?

around 20 gpm at over 3,000 psi. I explained every one in the above post. Plus it weighs a whole lot more. The lifting capacity is the biggest issue for me.

As far as weight. 73 HP Kioti with cab only weighs 5,600.
RX7320P Utility Tractor | Kioti Tractors

Kubota L6060 only weighs 4365 with cab.
Tractors - Grand L60 Series | Kubota Tractor Corporation

Looks like there is a wide variance in tractor weight in that hp range.

 

[roadhunter]

Which Perkins do you have in that machine?

I believe it is the 1004-42ar. 75 hp.

 

[LD1]

My LA724 loader has a published weight of 1100 pounds. I don't know if that includes the bucket. The La724 bucket is a good bit bigger and heavier duty than the LA534 bucket.

All the kubota specs I have seen list two separate numbers. Loader (frame, mounts, cylinders, etc) and bucket separate.

To be exact, IIRC, my loader is listed at something like 893# and bucket is either 251 or 261#. So I would say the 1100# for your La724 is loader only. Add ~300-350# for bucket I would guess

 

[LD1]

LOL. I explained every one in the above post. Plus it weighs a whole lot more.

As far as weight. 73 HP Kioti with cab only weighs 5,600.
RX7320P Utility Tractor | Kioti Tractors

Kubota L6060 only weighs 4365 with cab.
Tractors - Grand L60 Series | Kubota Tractor Corporation

Looks like there is a wide variance in tractor weight in that hp range.

Yes, there isa large weight spread. But those weights you listed are both without loaders that the toolcat is counting. Add a loader to that L6060 and its easily heavier than the toolcat. And a L6060 is probably about the lightest 60HP tractor you will find.

About your JCB, here is what you said

4 wheel steering, twice the hydraulic flow and twice the pressure, loader capacity over 4,000 pounds, downpressure in the 3 point, Shuttle shift tranny

Most of the 75HP ag tractors have 4k loaders....check
Most have shuttle shift or reverser trannys........check
Twice the flow......dont know. Cannot find the specs on your machine.
Twice the pressure....Dont know, cant find the specs. But I would see that as a con rather a positive. Double the pressure means 5k psi rated hoses, valves, etc. Would rather have larger cylinders vs higher pressure.
I already gave you a + on 4-wheel steer. But cannot find any specs (turning radius) on your machine to compare
3PH downpressure...okay. Has its uses but not a huge factor IMO.

So....I am sure these specs are in the manual. Mind sharing what your flow rate, pressure, turning radius, etc is? Whats the total operating weight WITHOUT the backhoe and WITH? Whats the 3PH lift capacity?

I am not at all saying the JCB212 is a bad machine. Industrial built machines with backhoes are very stout. But they do have some downsides as well like Smaller tires dont pull as well and ride rougher.

If you need an industrial TLB that can occasionally run a 3PH attachement, then yea you are probably better off buying what you did. But If you need a 75HP ag tractor than can "occasionally" run a backhoe, they you are probably better with an ag tractor.

 

[roadhunter]

Yes, there isa large weight spread. But those weights you listed are both without loaders that the toolcat is counting. Add a loader to that L6060 and its easily heavier than the toolcat. And a L6060 is probably about the lightest 60HP tractor you will find.

About your JCB, here is what you said


Most of the 75HP ag tractors have 4k loaders....check
Most have shuttle shift or reverser trannys........check
Twice the flow......dont know. Cannot find the specs on your machine.
Twice the pressure....Dont know, cant find the specs. But I would see that as a con rather a positive. Double the pressure means 5k psi rated hoses, valves, etc. Would rather have larger cylinders vs higher pressure.
I already gave you a + on 4-wheel steer. But cannot find any specs (turning radius) on your machine to compare
3PH downpressure...okay. Has its uses but not a huge factor IMO.

So....I am sure these specs are in the manual. Mind sharing what your flow rate, pressure, turning radius, etc is? Whats the total operating weight WITHOUT the backhoe and WITH? Whats the 3PH lift capacity?

I am not at all saying the JCB212 is a bad machine. Industrial built machines with backhoes are very stout. But they do have some downsides as well like Smaller tires dont pull as well and ride rougher.

If you need an industrial TLB that can occasionally run a 3PH attachement, then yea you are probably better off buying what you did. But If you need a 75HP ag tractor than can "occasionally" run a backhoe, they you are probably better with an ag tractor.

Wow. You have really derailed this one.

I was not able to find an ag style tractor in that HP range that I thought would handle 4k+ loads comfortably. My experience with the 45 HP Bobcat tractor as well as the weight of the 75 HP ag style tractors I looked at concerned me. I liked the Kubota TLB but found it to be out of my price range. That was really the only comparable unit I could find.

If you prefer a lower pressure hydraulic system then a tractor is probably perfect for you. I prefer systems that are similar to skid steers hydraulics so I can use skid steer attachments that my previous little bobcat tractor would not operate as it lacked the flow and pressure necessary.

Industrial machines are in a different class and not comparable to ag style machines. I think my past construction experience has made me prefer those style machines as opposed to ag style machines for the reasons I mentioned earlier such as needing bigger front axles and tires to better handle loader work where all the weight is on that axle. I don't' find myself doing much "farm" style work like plowing..

I purchased my machine based on my specific needs. Not sure why you have turned this into a measuring contest but this is supposed to be about what we would like to see manufacturers make. I have no idea what the turning radius or any of the other stuff you asked for is. This is not a contest. Myself and others would like to see a smaller "industrial" type tractor available like there were back in the day.

Essentially I just said that I prefer construction style QA's as opposed to a 3 point hitch and I prefer hydraulic drive as opposed to PTO driven attachments because I think they are easier to hook up and disconnect for the things I use. Plus skid steer attachments can be rented at many locations so the availability of attachments is not comparable. A heavy duty 50 hp tractor with a 20 gpm 3,000 PSI aux hydraulics and a ss QA on the front and back (with tnt) would be a versatile little machine for some of us. I personally think xfaxman's bobcat is a really neat machine as well. Sometimes a tractor with a twist is just perfect for what we do. A side by side with loader, 3 point, aux hydraulics, and pto can do a lot. Not sure why you are selling it short on pulling but I have no doubt that is a strong machine.

 

[Sprinklerman]

I would like to see the subcompacts come with the same quick attach front bucket that the mini skid steers have .

 

[pmsmechanic]

The beating is getting the 3 point attached, specifically the lower pins. Attaching a PTO shaft is simply awkward no matter how you slice it. Too many things in the way like 3 point arms, top link, 3 point linkage, pto guard, etc...

Construction equipment simply uses better and easier attachment methods. That is why you are seeing so many smaller tractors use skid steer QA on the front. SS QA'a are better than 3 points attachment, even 3 point QA's. And Hydraulic hoses are easier to hook up than PTO driveshafts. This isn't' just me. Go look at all the threads about what a PITA it is to get augers hooked up to 3 point hitches. You won't' find any about front mounted augers with SS QA and hydraulic drive. 3 point and PTO was really nice 50 years ago. Since then better things have been invented.

I don't know that I would agree that SS QA's are easier than a good 3 point QA. I have very little trouble with mine and I can use a pto with it. Something that can't be done with a SS QA.

I'll give you that hydraulics are easier. Better would be if they could transmit full engine power with the same efficiency as a pto.

I'll stick with what I have. I like it and it works for me.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Making the front tires the same size as the rears with the ability of adding duals would make me think about a new tractor!
A lot of everyone's ideas can already be done relatively cheaply with aftermarket stuff!

 

[LD1]

Wow. You have really derailed this one.

"snip"

.

Not trying to de-rail. Just trying to fill in missing information.

You make a comment like "higher flow and more pressure" yet your models specs cannot easily be found online. So I am asking questions. does high flow to you mean 20GPM? 40GPM? 100GPM? and does your high pressure mean 5000PSI, 6000psi?, 10000psi?

And you mention weight. I can look up what ~75HP ag tractors with loaders weigh, but have no idea if your JCB is a 8k machine or a 18k machine?

Just trying to get the info out there. Industrial machines are built for different purposes. What you need, it seems a industrial meets your needs. But what you view as benefits are often negatives for other applications. Just a wild guess that your machine is in the 12,000lb-14,000lb range. With small industrial tires and 4wd. A comparable ag tractor in similar HP range with loader would be in the 8k range. Both can have ~4k loaders. But with much larger R1 tires, an ag tire is gonna be better suited in the field plowing, discing, hauling hay to cattle on less than ideal days, etc.

Its not a measuring contest. A 75HP ag tractor is built for a different purpose than a 75HP TLB.

Why are you so hesitant to post us some specs on that JCB?
Operating pressure?
Flow?
3PH lift capacity?
Operating weight?

The whole 9 yards. A few pics or scans of then spec page in your operators manual would be useful. This is not a contest, just curious to see how the specs line up. So put them out there.......