which coolant for kubota engines?????

[namesray]

ok. a while ago here on tbn, I read about the concern of cavitation within a diesel engine cooling system if the proper coolant, or coolant additives, SCA's (supplemental coolant additives) are NOT used. since then, I have been doing a little further research and I would like some more help figuring this one out. I have been flushing my Kubota engines coolant every 2 years as op manual states. I have been using the prestone universal coolant that states safe for all metals (including aluminum). haven't noticed any ill effects for 6+ years (1200 hours), but what I hear about cavitation, I wouldn't until its too late. the Kubota book says to use fresh clean water and antifreeze. dealer says any antifreeze that states safe for all metals is fine. Kubota website only states fresh water and antifreeze. both say nothing about SCA's to prevent cavitation. the closest specific I can come up with is in the op manuel, it states coolant should refer to SAE J1034, more specifically SAEJ814c. the prestone I have been using states it meets astm d3306. (whatever all these sae and astm's mean??????) after looking around at local stores, I found this product, fleet charge

What's New!

states it comes with the proper initial amount of SCA's and don't even need to worry if distilled water is used or not for the 50/50 mix due to an anti scaling additive. fleet charge meets the sae j1034, but also the astm d3306. would this fleet charge product be the better choice over the prestone universal I have been using, or am I over thinking again. this fleet charge is the only coolant with the SCA's that is readily available in my area. most people I talk with around my area about SCA's and cavitation don't have a clue to what I am asking or talking about. the ones who do understand, have given me mixed answers. what do you all think. please help as I am trying to learn this. thanks.

 

[Locoweed]

Kubota Service Lubricant Maintenance

All Applications

Use a 50/50 mixture of clean water and Anti-Freeze. *

* Never mix different colors of antifreeze.

I'll be using the same stuff you have been using when I change mine.

 

[sixdogs]

Deere coolant works for me.

 

[smilinjak]

The coolant that meets the SAE spec is cheap insurance. The few dollars saved with the minimum quality product won't buy the label off the overhaul gasket set not to mention the hard parts and labor.
Smilinjak

 

[90cummins]

Diesel engines that have wet sleeves require special coolants (additives) to prevent cavitation or pitting of the cylinder liner. Wet sleeve diesel engines are particularly prone to cavitation is because the sleeves are machined perfectly round, true and smooth and they act like a bell when the clapper hits it.
In a diesel the clapper is the spontaneous combustion of the fuel which causes a very high pressure spike (diesel knock) that rings the bell (cylinder).
This causes liner to vibration which causes air bubbles to form & collapse on the surface of the cylinder liner. This process actually causes microscopic particles of metal to be torn away from the liner. Over time the pitting can perforate the liner allowing water into the combustion chamber, additives prevent this.
Cast in block cylinders are not as prone to vibrate or ring due to the irregularities of the casting and also because it is an integral cast part of the block.
Cavitation is also an issue with hydraulics.
Below is an article from (TheDieselStop.Com)
Cavitation is a localized low pressure zone that forms adjacent to the outer wall of the cylinder. It is caused by the flexing of the cylinder wall due to the high cylinder pressures experienced in diesel engine ignition. Gasoline engines don't typically get this failure mode due to lower cylinder pressures during ignition. Basically what happens is the cylinder wall quickly expands due to ignition then returns to its original geometry. This expansion of the cylinder wall is more pronounced as you increase the demand for power. Basically when you increase your demand for power you are pumping more fuel into the cylinder. If you have a turbo charged unit you are also increasing air charge. This increase in fuel and air causes a more violent ignition which further increases cylinder pressures and thus increases the flexing of the cylinder wall. This fast cylinder wall movement causes a low pressure zone to be created in the coolant adjacent to the cylinder wall. When this pressure zone drops below the vapor pressure point (temperature, coolant ratio, and additive dependent) a vapor bubble is formed. When this low pressure zone returns to a high pressure zone, the vapor bubble collapses, causing an implosion, or pitting phenomena on the cylinder wall (like hitting the surface with a microscopic ball peen hammer). If left unchecked, it will eventually eat all the way through the cylinder wall.
90cummins

 

[Patches]

Fleet Charge is what I use in my Kioti. I've never done a cost comparison with other (automotive) antifreeze but I'm sure the difference, if any, is not a deal breaker

 

[sixdogs]

Lots of wisdom in the quote below. Anti-freeze is equally important to oil changes and other maintenance items but sadly is often neglected.

Diesel engines that have wet sleeves require special coolants (additives) to prevent cavitation or pitting of the cylinder liner. Wet sleeve diesel engines are particularly prone to cavitation is because the sleeves are machined perfectly round, true and smooth and they act like a bell when the clapper hits it.
In a diesel the clapper is the spontaneous combustion of the fuel which causes a very high pressure spike (diesel knock) that rings the bell (cylinder).
This causes liner to vibration which causes air bubbles to form & collapse on the surface of the cylinder liner. This process actually causes microscopic particles of metal to be torn away from the liner. Over time the pitting can perforate the liner allowing water into the combustion chamber, additives prevent this.
Cast in block cylinders as prone to vibrate or ring due to the irregularities of the casting and also because it is an integral cast part of the block.
Cavitation is also an issue with hydraulics.
Below is an article from (TheDieselStop.Com)
Cavitation is a localized low pressure zone that forms adjacent to the outer wall of the cylinder. It is caused by the flexing of the cylinder wall due to the high cylinder pressures experienced in diesel engine ignition. Gasoline engines don't typically get this failure mode due to lower cylinder pressures during ignition. Basically what happens is the cylinder wall quickly expands due to ignition then returns to its original geometry. This expansion of the cylinder wall is more pronounced as you increase the demand for power. Basically when you increase your demand for power you are pumping more fuel into the cylinder. If you have a turbo charged unit you are also increasing air charge. This increase in fuel and air causes a more violent ignition which further increases cylinder pressures and thus increases the flexing of the cylinder wall. This fast cylinder wall movement causes a low pressure zone to be created in the coolant adjacent to the cylinder wall. When this pressure zone drops below the vapor pressure point (temperature, coolant ratio, and additive dependent) a vapor bubble is formed. When this low pressure zone returns to a high pressure zone, the vapor bubble collapses, causing an implosion, or pitting phenomena on the cylinder wall (like hitting the surface with a microscopic ball peen hammer). If left unchecked, it will eventually eat all the way through the cylinder wall.
90cummins

 

[namesray]

ok great explanation of cavitation above. so does anyone know if the Kubota engines (specifically v 1505's on b7800 and b3200 and d902 on rtv) are they wet sleeved or dry sleeved? still kind of confused here because like locoweed post said, the Kubota website just says clean water and antifreeze for all applications. does that mean the Kubota engines might be dry sleeved? and would I be better off using the fleet charge with the sca's anyway? I am going to do my 2 year flush on the b7800 soon and that would be when I would switch from prestone to the fleet charge if I do switch so no mixing of the 2 different coolants. would the fleet charge harm the engine at all? never saw anything about the fleet charge saying anything about being safe for all metals including aluminum. what's everyone's opinion on switching to the fleet charge (specs in my first post if anyone wants to see them.) thanks everyone for the help this far. keep the info coming.

 

[timswi]

The Kubota dealer told me to get the automotive green stuff for my BX...They said they don't even stock Kubota anti-freeze for that reason.

 

[number two]

Conventional green coolant is what you want for your tractors.Your Kubota tractors are parent bore engines i.e. no sleeves.Almost a little hard to find at times because automobiles have not used this coolant for over ten years.Don't overthink this-it's still the old days as far Kubota coolant.Get some regular ethelyene glycol green stuff and mix 50/50 with distilled water,change every two years.Good Luck!

 

[90cummins]

In the 60’s & 70’s when I was a kid it was simple, green stuff for everything even diesels which also required additives for liner protection.
With today’s engines that are made of various aluminum alloys the correct coolant is critical to avoid gasket & part failure due to corrosion.
Even American manufactures have their own flavor of coolant.
It AIN’T like it used to be!!!

90cummins

 

[art]

For the ag tractors we have been adding additives for quite some time now. It isn't the anti-freeze going bad as far as it's temperature rating but the additives to assist with lubrication of the water pump and to stop rust scaling and cavitation in wet sleeve engines. I from time to time hear someone say they have cavitation in a parent bore engine. This is normally from an imperfection in the block casting which surfaces with wear.

 

[namesray]

so are Kubota wet sleeved engines that require the sca additive or dry sleeved that don't need the sca addditives? and does "parent bore" engine mean the same as dry sleeved and does not require sca additive? I am leaning towards just sticking with the prestone universal I have been using (the yellow colored stuff=safe for all autos and engines and mixes with all coolants, but no sca's.) am I leaning the right direction? I am getting the impression collectively from everyone that yes cavitation does exits, especially in diesel engines, but not all diesel engines are built the same (wet sleeved or "parent bored") and the diesel engines that are wet sleeved need the sca's but the diesel engines that are "parent bore" do NOT require the sca's and the Kubota engines are "parent bore" and NOT wet sleeved. thanks for all the info so far.

 

[number two]

Ray-your Kubota engines have no sleeves-there are dry sleeves which are replaceable cylinder liners which don't touch coolant and there are wet sleeves that are replaceable cylinder liners that do contact coolant.Parent bore means the pistons ride on the cylinder block bores instead of replaceable liners.When rebuidling is needed,the block is bored oversized instead of replacing the cylinder liners.Please follow my recommendation of conventional green coolant from post #10 for best practices for your tractors.Good Luck!

 

[shanehobson]

How about blue coolant that says on the container, not suitable for alloy engines ?
Would that be ok for my diesel F1900 or diesel B2150 ?

 

[shanehobson]

How about blue coolant that says on the container, not suitable for alloy engines ?
Would that be ok for my diesel F1900 or diesel B2150 ?

 

[Paystar]

I'm switching mine to Peak Final Charge Global.

PEAK Commercial & Industrial | PEAKhd.com

 

[davesl708]

Conventional green coolant is what you want for your tractors.Your Kubota tractors are parent bore engines i.e. no sleeves.Almost a little hard to find at times because automobiles have not used this coolant for over ten years.Don't overthink this-it's still the old days as far Kubota coolant.Get some regular ethelyene glycol green stuff and mix 50/50 with distilled water,change every two years.Good Luck!

My only questions is, why distilled water vs tap water? None of the engine manuals I have call for distilled water. Is there something corrosive in tap water that makes it a bad choice?

 

[PhysAssist]

My only questions is, why distilled water vs tap water? None of the engine manuals I have call for distilled water. Is there something corrosive in tap water that makes it a bad choice?

First, in case no one noticed:

The 3 or 4 recent comments and questions were appended to a 2 y/o thread.

That said, It's not any less current an issue today, and also, it reminded me that it's time for my B2320's flush and fill.

Secondly, it's that tap water [whether from public water utilities or from private wells] may have a wide range of dissolved and possibly also suspended solids in it, any of which could precipitate out and cause scaling that would damage the cooling system and/or degrade the cooling ability of the system and cause overheating and engine failure.

That's without mentioning possible acidic or alkaline water which can independently corrode the metal and other components it contacts.

The manufacturers all say that THEIR coolant is best and best able to counteract these factors, but it's cheap insurance to either dilute with distilled water [cheap way] or use pre-diluted coolant [usually more expensive despite the decreased amount of product being sold- "convenience charge"].

That's as best I can recall these issues from an older previous thread on another board, but as I have CRS [can't recall s...:confused3:]- it may be suspect.
Thomas

 

[sixdogs]

Tap water likely is likely "hard" water in that there are dissolved minerals in it that will collect on internal passages of the engine or radiator. I'm a cheapskate but after learning about coolant and it's importance I now use Deere pre mixed coolant in most things and regular Peak or Prestone pre-mixed in small Kubotas. My Toyotas get genuine Toyota pre-mixed. Too many horror stories out there.