Which one ck20hst or ck25hst or ck30hst?

[kentrodngun]

Thought I'd just point out a couple of things here:

Bob really impressed me with his first post, but I've had a little time for it to settle into my gray matter. I doubt if you will carry the BH, tiller, etc all at the same time. I know that the machine + FEL + BH will just about fit on an 18' trailer. The tiller & mower hook up on the same 3PH, so you won't be transporting more than one attachment back there at a time. That said, your max weight is way below what's been outlined.

IslandTractor (Ed?) has done impressive work with his machine BUT he has a small plot of land, probably sandy soil and I don't believe he uses the machine commercially.

You are a whole different animal and I would suggest getting some more input on the forum here and elsewhere before you pull that trigger. Perhaps you can speak or get some input from other commercial users or at least from dealers who service commercially used machines. Under-power yourself (and I'm not saying you would with the CK-20 because I don't know) and you'll regret saving those few $$.

Again, my 2 cents - proceed with caution and do a bit more homework. Good luck.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Bob really impressed me with his first post, but I've had a little time for it to settle into my gray matter. I doubt if you will carry the BH, tiller, etc all at the same time. I know that the machine + FEL + BH will just about fit on an 18' trailer. The tiller & mower hook up on the same 3PH, so you won't be transporting more than one attachment back there at a time. That said, your max weight is way below what's been outlined . . .

. . . Again, my 2 cents - proceed with caution and do a bit more homework.

True, if you leave the backhoe home, your weight will only be 1500# over the trailer capacity and will be at roughly 8500# instead of 9500+#. Oh, and you'll also be about 750# over the truck's towing capacity.

Further, if you bring the backhoe, and leave the other two implents home the same thing happens, you end up at roughly 8500# instead of 9500+#. Again the trailer capacity is 7000#, so it is still overloaded by 3/4 of a ton! Again, you are still well over the truck's towing capacity.

And manufacturer's towing capacity is based on a properly maintained truck, transmission and brakes, in perfect operating conditon. The truck in question is roughly 5+ years old, we can presume it is in good condition but I always urge caution with towing because there is a lot of dangerous advice given here on TBN with regard to towing.

The place where about 450 to 500 pounds can be saved is to not fluid fill the tires. Fluid fill is not needed with a backhoe but I did include the weight because the original poster included it. Further, many TLB owners (myself included) have fluid fill on their tractors that have a backhoe for use when there is no BH installed and we want to use the full capacity of the loader - something that is not possible with just an implement hanging on the rear end. In the case of the CK25/30 it requires 700# of weight on the 3pt (according to Kioti.com) to utilize the full capacity of the loader, however, just using something like a tiller or rotary cutter will add roughly 500# of weight, well short of the required amount (its actually is about 29% too light).

 

[kentrodngun]

I'll beat that dog one last time.

No offense Bob, I actually agree with you and respect your input and knowledge, but using strategically accurate estimates for my last go round:

18' trailer (I own one) is 1750lbs
Tractor + FEL is roughly 3800 lbs
Loaded tires another 500 lbs
Fuel (7 gal tank) about another 50 lbs
Chains & binders another 200 lbs (might be high)
Backhoe approx 1000 lbs (might be high depending on model)

I think he'd only carry one implement + tractor & FEL at a time. However, my total above is 7300 so you are correct that it exceeds the 7000 limit. Maybe ok for one short hop but certainly not recommended (illegal to boot) for long hauls or frequent trips (remember this is for commercial aka frequent use).

The truck's towing capacity's another issue all together. I recommended earlier an F250 to pull it - if it's an F150, it going to get beat to sugar honey iced tea .

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I'll beat that dog one last time.

No offense Bob, I actually agree with you and respect your input and knowledge, but using strategically accurate estimates for my last go round:

18' trailer (I own one) is 1750lbs
Tractor + FEL is roughly 3800 lbs
Loaded tires another 500 lbs
Fuel (7 gal tank) about another 50 lbs
Chains & binders another 200 lbs (might be high)
Backhoe approx 1000 lbs (might be high depending on model)

I think he'd only carry one implement + tractor & FEL at a time. However, my total above is 7300 so you are correct that it exceeds the 7000 limit.

Ken, no offense taken, but I prefer to beat dead horses rather than dogs!

As for weights, you said your trailer is 1750#, I estimated 1800 for an 18' trailer so I am pretty darn close. Now I can also offer up my 14' trailer that weighs over 1600# and suggest that mine is built heavier than yours and if he owns an 18' trailer that is build like mine, it will likely weigh 2000#. Neither you, nor I know what he owns, so I had to use an estimate that I figured was fair. I suggested 1800#.

As for the rest of the weights, a CK25/30 TLB is rougly 5350# using your weights. Add another 200# for chains and binders. Weight is now 5550#. Add trailer weight of 1750# and I will agree we are at 7300#.

• No professional landscaper can afford to tow overwweight on a regular basis and expect his equipment trailer to hold up.
• No professional can risk his insurance rates and get caught towing over weight.
• No professional can risk the tickets & fines of towing overweight.
• Add to that, it is stupid and dangerous.

But, since he is a professional landscaper, then I will also suggest that he will have other things on that trailer. If you go back and look at what I wrote, I suggested that. Heck, just toss a 5-gallon "Gatorade" cooler on there and the weight goes up ~50#. Toss a chain saw, weed wacker (and 5 gallons of gas), then toss on some shovels, rakes, etc. and it is not unreasonable to assume there is a total of 250# to 500# of "stuff" added to the trailer. I presumed it to be 400# and stated so in my first post.

Also, while it is likely that he may not carry everything every time he tows, it is also likely that he will occasionally do that. And while you might argue that he only will carry 1 implement, I'd suggest that he ultimately will end up buying more implements and probably will be adding a box blade and a landscape rake very quickly to his implement pile. I'd also suggest that he may well carry 2 or 3 implements at any given time. Lawn preparation could easily use a tiller, box blade and landscape rake on the same day. There are many other examples when he may be doing several tasks and not want to make multiple trips (nor is it cost effective) simply to transport implements.

Consequently, depending on what he carries, the implement weights, etc he could easily be right where I said he would be.

So I will go back and suggest that if he needs implements sized like those in his 1st post, his maximum tractor would be a 30hp Kubota B7800 which weighs more than a CK20 but far less than a CK25/30.

If he needs a tractor sized for the implements he has chosen (55" tiller and 52" rotary cutter) then he should not go less than a 25hp tractor (my opinion based on my experince, equipement uses, various soil conditons that I have operated in, etc) and he would be better off with something like a Farmall DX26 or NH TC26DA, both weight slightly less than a CK20.

If he uses a 48" cutter (preferably a medium duty unit instead of the lightweight unit he picked) and a 48" tiller, then the CK20 would be an excellent choice and would work with his trailer.

Certainly there are other options as well, these are just examples of configurations that will work, other brands certainly have tractors that will fit the requirements.

CK20 = 15.5 PTO HP

• Typical recommendations for a rotary cutter are 4 to 5 horsepower per 12" of cutter. 3hp per 12" limits tasks to light duty cutting.
• The tiller he picked is larger than the tiller I use. I use it with both 24hp and 30hp tractors. In loam or sand, the 24hp easily spins the tiller to full depth on the first pass. In heavy clay, the 30hp can barely run the 50" tiller I operate and easily bogs the engine on the 24hp tractor (even on the second pass).

Maybe its just me, but if this is a commercial operator, then TIME = MONEY. WASTE = LOST PROFIT.

Commercial users have typically face all sorts of conditions, heavy & light duty. Larger implements require more power. I fear the CK20, with the implement sizes he chose, is a bad match for commerical use. Might be OK for home users who can control their operating conditions, but not suitable for a business user. JMHO

That said, all the folks who might suggest "he could just take 1/2 passes" with the implements would be also be suggesting that:

1. the implements are in fact too large
2. he will have to slow down and waste time (lose profit) -or-
3. he will have to use part of the tool and waste time (lose profit)

 

[kentrodngun]

Bob, couldn't agree more with most of your points - well stated. My first post suggested more HP for the soil & commercial intent of use. Tow vehicle was an issue that I addressed in my first post too.

My gut says the CK20 would be not enough machine for commercial use but it's not based on any experience with the machine so my opinion is just an opinion. Weight is a critical issue given the tow vehicle limitations and I personally would lean towards more HP for a commercial use of the machine & the size of the implements being considered. That said, I agree with you that a lighter machine with more HP would be a better choice but that's obviously up to the purchaser. I think that discussions like the one we're having here will help him make a more informed decision.

As to the dog vs horse comment, my wife is a "horse person" and I've gotten out of the habit of using that phrase. Getting bit in the face by a dog back in the 50s and traveling to Korea a number of times and seeing how the locals tenderize the local cuisine might explain my substitution in the "recipient" of the beating .

 

[IslandTractor]

Ken, no offense taken, but I prefer to beat dead horses rather than dogs!

Let's leave Dargo out of this.

 

[gravel13]

Xtremesvc, I was wondering if your using this for commercial purposes did your dealer price out a LK3054 TLB package? It comes with the canopy, work light front and rear. When using the backhoe the seat is alway under the canopy too. I do believe the weight is up there though, closer to the ck30 not the ck20. Just some food for thought.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Xtremesvc, I was wondering if your using this for commercial purposes did your dealer price out a LK3054 TLB package . . . I do believe the weight is up there though, closer to the ck30 not the ck20.

The LK3054 weighs 2974#, it is only 75# less than a CK25/CK30 which weigh in at approximately 3050#. Since the CK25/30 will easily overburden the maximum trailer capacity, as outlined above, saving roughly 75# is not going to be any help. This tractor too, will end up well over the maximum capacity of the trailer it as a TLB even without adding the implements or other tools he may need to carry on the trailer

Rather than looking at 3000# tractors, he really needs to focus on tractors that are under 2000#. Then when loading the tractors up with front end loaders, backhoes, and implements, he will not overload his trailer or his truck's capacity.

If he says with Kioti, his viable option is the CK20. But I tend to agree with what Kentrodngun wrote, he may find that it lacks an acceptable level of PTO HP to run the size implements he would need to use for efficient work speed. Obviously both he and I are just expressing opinions.

Here is what Ken wrote:

My gut says the CK20 would be not enough machine for commercial use but it's not based on any experience with the machine so my opinion is just an opinion. Weight is a critical issue given the tow vehicle limitations and I personally would lean towards more HP for a commercial use of the machine & the size of the implements being considered. That said, I agree with you that a lighter machine with more HP would be a better choice but that's obviously up to the purchaser. I think that discussions like the one we're having here will help him make a more informed decision.

 

[gravel13]

This tractor too, will end up well over the maximum capacity of the trailer it as a TLB even without adding the implements or other tools he may need to carry on the trailer

I wasn't trying to suggest that the LK3054 would fit on his trailer, I was just throwing out the Lk3054 as an alternative to the CK series. Some dealers may have them left over on the lot and want to move them.

For trailering I would up it to a 10K trailer, (that's what I bought for my ck25 with fel & bh) but he probably doesn't want to add that to the list at this point in time and use what he already has.

 

[Mike5252]

I think Bob is on the right track. I personally like the Kiotis, but both the Kiotis and Mahindras a relatively heavy for the HP. Given your restrictions on the weight you can carry, a slightly lighter, more powerful tractor should be just the ticket.

The TC26/DX 26 (I believe the DX 26's were discontinued for 2007, so there could be some good deals out there), Kubota 7800/3030, or JD 2520 would all be good for what you need. I personally have a JD 2520 and couldn't be happier w/ it.

Good luck, and keep us posted.