Which one ck20hst or ck25hst or ck30hst?

[Bob_Skurka]

For trailering I would up it to a 10K trailer

I was simply trying to work within his trailering capacity.

• He owns a 7000# trailer.
• His truck has a maximium trailering capacity of 7700#.
• He said his budget was tight, that eliminates suggesting a new truck & trailer.

Consequently moving up to a 10,000# trailer won't do him much good, and as 10.000# trailers are heavier built, and, if heavy enough it might actually reduce total towing capacity.

I only wanted to save him a lot of grief. If you go back and read the first page of this thread, it was clearly stated that he owned a trailer & truck and had a 7000# GVW limit. Several people were suggesting he go to a tractor that he could not haul because they didn't take into account his capacities. I simply started with his capacity and worked backwards from that point. Doing so eliminated the heavy tractors.

Thinking about this, it may just be one of the reasons that Kubota is so popular with landscapers? They can tow a bigger trailer with more & larger implements without overloading their capacity.

 

[IslandTractor]

Remember folks there is a budget ceiling here. I would not disagree with anyone suggesting the B7800 or B3030 or perhaps an equivalent JD but I am pretty sure those machines would cost at least several thousand more than a CK20. As I recall, the original poster owns a paid for quarter ton pickup and has a budget to work with that would be exceeded by bigger equipment.

I'm not arguing that the CK20 would meet everyone's needs as for some contractors the four foot cutter, tiller and box blade might be limiting. However, there are lots of landscapers who run smaller operations that don't have any tractor at all. There is no doubt in my mind that a CK20 would add measurably to their output. I also don't have any doubt that a CK20 TLB with four foot cutter, 5 foot rake, 4 foot box blade and tiller, 7000lb trailer, and 1/4 ton pickup would cost many thousands less than equipment one size up.

If you want more capability than what the CK20 offers, you need to spend quite a bit more. That is my point.

 

[coasterez]

For the intended uses, where HP is key to many, I'd have to agree that a lighter, higher hp machine like those already suggested would be better. Another possibility not mentioned is the TYM K2. However, if primary chores were loader, excavation and ground engaging, the CK20 would be a good choice. Unless, of course, buying a new trailer and truck are possible, then I'd go CK30/35.

I too have a CK25 TLB and quickly came to the conclusion that an 18', 10K lb trailer would be about the minimum to safely haul with. Heavier trailer leads to heavier truck.... either now or later.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Remember folks there is a budget ceiling here. I would not disagree with anyone suggesting the B7800 or B3030 or perhaps an equivalent JD but I am pretty sure those machines would cost at least several thousand more than a CK20. As I recall, the original poster owns a paid for quarter ton pickup and has a budget to work with that would be exceeded by bigger equipment.

Yup you need to spend more for a B3030, but he already had figured he could afford over $17,825 for a CK25, loader, tiller, cutter but it is simply too heavy. A B7800 is priced around the price of the CK25, offers more power in lower weight, but lacks some of the deluxe features, so it is not out of the question in terms of his budget. It should be right in that general ballpark for price.

Locally my NH dealer has a brand new TC24DA w/loader for $12,950. (my neighbor will probably buy it) Add a tiller and a cutter and and he'd be about $16,000 (assuming $1500 per implement). Granted its only 24hp, but its 3 hp more than the CK20 and that would take him up to the same implement size as the CK25, yet still weigh less than the CK20. A TC26DA will cost more than a TC24DA.

 

[Xtremesvc]

WOW! A lot of choices out there, but all are not availabe in his area or carry the cuts listed. Case, NH are an hour away and Kubota is 2 hours. When I contacted the JD dealer about comparing the Kioti to JD he said that he couldn't beat the price and that Kioti had a better warranty! A lot of the dealers dont carry the cuts due to the very large ranch/farms in the the state and will not deal on pricing because they have to get the units in.

I am really leaning toward the CK20HST due to several factors. I looked at several trailers over the weekend and came away not very happy. The local Big Tex dealer had a 10pi and wanted $4000 for it. He said that same trailer would have been 1000 cheaper 2 years ago and the price is going up this summer.

I also drove around and looked at the yard access to the homes in the area. Majority of them have small gates and the CK25/30 wouldn't fit in them. About every home has a fence to keep animals in and out. This is Colorado and we have big cats, bear, deer and elk in the area.

I do want to carry majority of my equipment on the trailer and the CK25/30 wouldn't allow me to do that, but the CK20 will, with room to spare, but not much. I don't have the funds to buy another truck at this time and have discussed the options wih my partner. We came up with start small and then work up to a larger truck, then trailer, then tractor.

The local Kioti dealer is 15 minutes down the road and he has been in business for over 15 years. He knows his product and moves a lot of it. Kioti also has a great warranty (2 year bumper to bumper w/4 years on the power train). I can also use the extra funds saved by going to the CK20 to buy a couple more attachments.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[IslandTractor]

As others have pointed out, while there are viable alternatives to the CK20, the CK20 is certainly a great little workhorse. It is a truism on TBN that a great dealer is worth more than the color of the tractor so that should count heavily in your decision making. In this case it sounds like the little orange tractor with a black rather than orange bucket makes perfect sense.

As an aside, with all the talk about what can and cannot fit on to a trailer (weight and size-wize), don't you guys think about using the bed of your pickup for some of the equipment? With an FEL to load and unload the pickup it seems you could easily carry a box blade or rake or tiller in the truck and thereby lighten the load on the trailer. I presume that towing capacity and gross vehicle capacity are independent so you could tow a fully loaded 7000lb trailer and have an additional 500+ pounds of supplies/equipment in the truck itself.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

As an aside, with all the talk about what can and cannot fit on to a trailer (weight and size-wize), don't you guys think about using the bed of your pickup for some of the equipment? With an FEL to load and unload the pickup it seems you could easily carry a box blade or rake or tiller in the truck and thereby lighten the load on the trailer. I presume that towing capacity and gross vehicle capacity are independent so you could tow a fully loaded 7000lb trailer and have an additional 500+ pounds of supplies/equipment in the truck itself.

There is a gross combined vehicle weight rating that cannot be exceeded. Generally speaking the more you carry on the truck the less you can carry on the trailer, but depending on the truck some heavier duty trucks can carry a reasonable load and simultaneously tow at/near capacity.

Care should be taken when attempting to tow & haul simultaneously as it stresses both the brakes and the transmission to their maximums. Most machines are not designed to operate at 100% load for very long. Typically you want to operate at less than 80% of your total capacity if you intend to keep your equipment running for years of service.

Also bear in mind that the driver's and any passenger's weights must be factored into the total load. If you have 3 guys in the cabin, that will reduce the total cargo capacity by roughly 600# and is factored into the gross combined vehicle weight too.

 

[IslandTractor]

Most machines are not designed to operate at 100% load for very long. Typically you want to operate at less than 80% of your total capacity if you intend to keep your equipment running for years of service.

I've often wondered just how "real" the load ratings are and how much they have been influenced by lawyers rather than engineers. Does anyone have an idea of what the process is to determine load ratings? It seems odd that they always come out in nice clean numbers which makes me believe there is a lot of estimating/guesswork going on. For someone driving a pickup/full loaded trailer in suburban conditions (good roads, reasonable speed etc) wouldn't you think that the truck/trailer would be quite happy to be at full rated capacity and still give excellent service life? It seems to me that if they say it is rated for 7000lbs then it should be built to carry that load safely through the normal life expectancy of such a vehicle (truck??250,000 miles, trailer ??20 years). We get so used to seeing very lightly used pickups shuttling people to and from their office/supermarket that we may forget these things were actually designed to work for a living.

I guess if I wanted to pull 7000lbs I'd buy a truck and trailer that were rated to do so. I'd think that was more efficient than paying more for a truck rated to tow 10,000lbs just to haul 7000. Getting something bigger may sound like you are leaving a "buffer" but it also means you are shelling out more capital to begin with and saddling yourself with higher operating costs for the life of the vehicles.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I've often wondered just how "real" the load ratings are and how much they have been influenced by lawyers rather than engineers. . .

if I wanted to pull 7000lbs I'd buy a truck and trailer that were rated to do so. I'd think that was more efficient than paying more for a truck rated to tow 10,000lbs just to haul 7000.

Ed, I own a fleet of medium duty trucks (26,000# GVW) and a fleet of 1 ton service vans. We figured out long ago that we could buy a truck that was rated for the load we were putting into it and we'd destroy the truck in 2 to 4 years. But when we buy the next size up (or even 2 sizes up) we end up with a truck that lasts us for 10 to 12 years.

As far as ratings of trailer go, the ratings are based on the axles. Unfortunately many trailers are built like crap (that is a technical term that means they are junk) There are some great regional and national trailer manufacturers. There are probably some great local trailer builders too. But we've gone to custom built trailers after destroying "angle iron" trailers that we were told were "tough as nails" and "built to last" In fact they were crap. Basically angle iron frames. Angle iron reinforcing under the deck every 24" and cheap everything else. Look under the trailer. If it doesn't have square tube frames and if it does not have reinforcements for the wood deck every 12" (maybe 16") then it is probably a 'budget built' trailer. Heck take a look at the length of the welds, add them up. Some of the trailers I've seen probably have about 24" inches of welds on the whole thing to hold them together.

So you have a trailer weight rating that is based on the axles, but many of these locally built trailers have no real engineer who has ever looked at them, built them, designed them, etc.

 

[Xtremesvc]

Here we go, went to the dealer on Saturday and was given a price of $20,500 out the door for the following;

CK20HST.....(w/ind R4 tires)..........1993#
KL120.........................................650# (w/bucket)
KB2365 backhoe...........................785# (no bucket)
12" bucket...................................56#
Subframe
Aux Hydr vale
KT03-47......................................335#
48" brush cutter (non-Kiot).............488#
liquid fill tires......(rim guard)...........400#
Tooth bar
Hooks on bucket (x2)
Delivered (15 miles)

Subtotal weight...........................4707#
trailer weight...............................1600# (7000 GVW)
misc weight..................................400# (fuel, water, chains, etc.)
Total weight................................6707#

I was about to write the check when he said he was getting a CK30HST w/K130 in on Tuesday. He would sell it to me for the same price I was given on the CK25HST $17,825 (new) w/tiller, brush cutter/liquid filled AG tires. The biggest issue would be the weight again!

I should just bite the bullet and get the CK20 package.

Bill