Why is cost per HP so high?

[Turbys_1700]

There is a much higher demand right now for 30-50 horse tractors then there is for 50-100 horse tractors. As this site shows, almost everyone that owns a few acres or a lot of acres of land dreams of owning a tractor. They look at the new ones and figure that is more then they want to pay for something to play with and the 80 horse farm tractor is too big and heavy for their property so they buy the smaller utility tractors. The farm economy is not as great as it use to be and is keeping the price down on used farm tractors.

I paid $13,900 for a 110hp Ford 7710-II with cab last year. Two years ago I paid $16k for a 30 horse Ford 1920 with loader and a couple attachments. The 7710 is older and has more hours but it will do more in a day then the 1920 can do in a week and for basically the same dollar. But if I set both tractors out front of my house the 1920 will sell by weeks end and the 7710 will sit here for a while until some farmer decides he likes it or some large landowner wants it for working up food plots.

The demand for large tractors will never be as great as the demand for smaller ones. More folk own small acreages than large ones. They want smaller tractors. My dad bought an AC 8050 he sold new in the 80's for pennys on the $. Not many people want an 180 HP tractor to load mulch and mow grass with. But it is nice to turn on the air conditioning and bale hay.

 

[RickO]

The demand for large tractors will never be as great as the demand for smaller ones. More folk own small acreages than large ones. They want smaller tractors. My dad bought an AC 8050 he sold new in the 80's for pennys on the $. Not many people want an 180 HP tractor to load mulch and mow grass with. But it is nice to turn on the air conditioning and bale hay.

I see you beat me there but I already had it typed... so here goes my comment...

I think it has little or nothing to do with HP or cost of production and a lot more to do with economics. Remember economics?

Why can Harley Davidson charge so much for a Motorcycle. Their cost to produce and HP is probably about the same as a goldwing but they can charge a lot more. Why?

Because they can, the market will bear it. In other words the demand (desire) + availability + cost to produce + size of consumer population (i.e. how many want/need a tractor) all factor into the equation. There is also the factor profit margin required for a JD to stay in business and make a profit. As was mentioned alread, JD may not sell as many tractors as GM does cars but they still have a lot of the same overhead of IT, engineering, etc. So they have to charge more per tractor. So many factors so little time.

 

[neverenough]

I'm sure this is a naive questions but I'll ask it anyway.

Can someone explain to me why I pay the so much more per horsepower for a tractor than I do for a truck?

Chevy Avalanche 2500 4WD costs $35,846 and can produce 325 hp @ 4200 rpm. That's about $110 / hp.

Chevy Silverado 1500 Regular Cab 2WD costs $15,628 and can produce 295 hp @ 5200 rpm. That's about $53 / hp.

By comparison, a Kubota L3400 costs, what, about $16000 (before attachments) and can produce 35 hp @ 2700rpm. That's $457 / hp!

So why does does engine HP costs 4 times as much on a tractor as it does on a truck?

And why don't we have inexpensive tractors that generate 200 hp?

When's the last time you went 75 mph from New York to Disneyland, pulling a travel trailer, with your CUT???? If trucks only went 18mph, at WOT, then they would only need 40 hp.

Ask your self this... Why are trucks so expensive if they can only pull a trailer, or haul stuff in the back. A tractor can dig, smooth ground, rototill, plow, disc, mow, lift bales of hay, run augers and elevators, cultivate, bale, and pull a trailer plus much more. Sounds to me like the truck buyer is getting shafted by spending all that money on something that does so little.

 

[Woodbeef]

A few points: Main one is the truck is figured disposable with a short life span in today's market,whereas the tractor is built for the long term. Basically longevity costs more. Next the HP figure on the truck is pretty much mythical. It is torque that moves it not HP. HP only come into play above 100+MPH. Which is an area I'd say 99.9999% of owners will never see. Yes they both have HP,but the tractor uses it's HP in a different manner that is more available for use. If the truck had a PTO,I wonder how much HP it would put out? Maybe 10% or so of the rated engine I'd imagine if that much.

 

[Woodbeef]

There is a much higher demand right now for 30-50 horse tractors then there is for 50-100 horse tractors. As this site shows, almost everyone that owns a few acres or a lot of acres of land dreams of owning a tractor. They look at the new ones and figure that is more then they want to pay for something to play with and the 80 horse farm tractor is too big and heavy for their property so they buy the smaller utility tractors. The farm economy is not as great as it use to be and is keeping the price down on used farm tractors.

I paid $13,900 for a 110hp Ford 7710-II with cab last year. Two years ago I paid $16k for a 30 horse Ford 1920 with loader and a couple attachments. The 7710 is older and has more hours but it will do more in a day then the 1920 can do in a week and for basically the same dollar. But if I set both tractors out front of my house the 1920 will sell by weeks end and the 7710 will sit here for a while until some farmer decides he likes it or some large landowner wants it for working up food plots.

Same with trucks. Check prices on used pick-ups vs used 2tons.

 

[Egon]

The cost per horse for power has always varied. An old pair of plugs goes for next to nothing but a matched set of Belgians will bring a very top dollar!

 

[JHTFarmer]

How much do you pay for horsepower per horse when purchasing a utility horse? And how does that compare to a chevy truck?

What is the point of the original posting? Should tractors priced at $53/hp like the Chevy pickup? That would be about $1850 for that top of the line 35hp machine $1060 for the smaller 20hp unit and no more than $21000 for a massive eight wheeled 400hp machine. Or is it that tractors should have horsepower ratings like automobiles? I certainly would not have opted for the 315hp engine for my 40hp Case DX40 (heck, I didn't even want the 45 hp engine for that matter)

 

[Dargo]

It is torque that moves it not HP. HP only come into play above 100+MPH.

What????!! I don't mean to be rude, but somebody was pulling your chain big time when they told you that one!

 

[Soundguy]

If the truck had a PTO,I wonder how much HP it would put out? Maybe 10% or so of the rated engine I'd imagine if that much.

Ask an owner of an old dodge power wagon what their pto rating is. I'm guessing it is higher than 10% of engine rating.. possibly almost 3x that...

Soundguy

 

[NoMo]

The problem is those darn Chevys in the equation. Buy a Ford SuperDuty truck and you can use it to plow, run a roto-tiller, heck it might even run a small rotary cutter. It'll definitely run a pump for spraying.

But Woodbeef is right; the Fords only have ~30HP at the PTO.

 

[Woodbeef]

What????!! I don't mean to be rude, but somebody was pulling your chain big time when they told you that one!

Me thinks you needs to re-evaluate your conclusions Sir.......Ok I admit I should have added the magical 5252rpm where both curves meet part,but other that that point,I'd like to see your reasons for doubting me? Torque is the twisting force that moves the vechicle. It is torque in foot pounds that is actually measured on a dyno,then HP is arrived at by using a set formula.

 

[Dargo]

,I'd like to see your reasons for doubting me?

I don't think I actually need to address why it is obvious that someone has pulled your chain really hard. To say that hp only comes into play at speeds over 100mph is, well, is just plain silly. You have my permission to tell whoever told you that that they are a fool.

I've been around race cars, heavy equipment and tractors all my life. Granted, hp is a much hyped selling point, but it is even more incorrect to say that hp only comes into play at speeds over 100 mph. If that is so, no tractor built anywhere in the world need have any hp, period, end of story. Since everyone knows that is not true, everyone knows that saying that hp only comes into play at speeds over 100 mph is clearly not true.

 

[whodat90]

When's the last time you went 75 mph from New York to Disneyland, pulling a travel trailer, with your CUT???? If trucks only went 18mph, at WOT, then they would only need 40 hp.

Ask your self this... Why are trucks so expensive if they can only pull a trailer, or haul stuff in the back. A tractor can dig, smooth ground, rototill, plow, disc, mow, lift bales of hay, run augers and elevators, cultivate, bale, and pull a trailer plus much more. Sounds to me like the truck buyer is getting shafted by spending all that money on something that does so little.

Actually, a tractor can't do any of those things. It can power and/or pull added cost implements that can do those things. A tractor by itself can just drive around slowly. It's roughly the same as selling the truck without a bed and charging extra for that.

As for the horsepower being unimportant till past 100mph, wow. Really, wow. Interested in any oceanfront land in nebraska?

 

[JerryG]

I for one would like to see them drop the HP rating all together for tractor and show torque only.

 

[mjarrels]

That 455 engine that powered your car ran much longer than the marine 455 version setting in the hull of that 18 foot jet boat running high rpm all day long at the lake.

mark

 

[whodat90]

I for one would like to see them drop the HP rating all together for tractor and show torque only.

The number would be useless without context. Torque is a measure of twisting force; horsepower is a measure of how much work that twisting force can do over a time period. You can have torque without horsepower, but not the other way round. You can gear any engine to produce any torque you want, but if you can't do it fast enough the torque is useless.
Here's a thought/practical exercise: Twist a doorknob. It moves with little torque over a certain amount of distance, yes? It took little horsepower to move it. Now keep twisting. At some point it stops twisting (at least mine do) when it reaches the end of it's travel. You can apply significant torque to the knob with no additional movement. That torque is a force that can be measured and recorded, but since it isn't producing any movement it isn't doing any work; hence, no horsepower.
Oh yeah, interesting and tangenitally related side note; electric motors produce maximum torque at zero rpm. That's why diesel-electric trains exist.

 

[Egon]

There once was a time when tractors were rated on many plow bottoms they could pull and how wide a thrashing machine they could turn.

 

[Woodbeef]

I don't think I actually need to address why it is obvious that someone has pulled your chain really hard. To say that hp only comes into play at speeds over 100mph is, well, is just plain silly. You have my permission to tell whoever told you that that they are a fool.

I've been around race cars, heavy equipment and tractors all my life. Granted, hp is a much hyped selling point, but it is even more incorrect to say that hp only comes into play at speeds over 100 mph. If that is so, no tractor built anywhere in the world need have any hp, period, end of story. Since everyone knows that is not true, everyone knows that saying that hp only comes into play at speeds over 100 mph is clearly not true.

Well dah..........I think you need to go back to my original post and reread it for comprehension about the context of it, where I mentioned the HP of the TRUCK,then come on back. Take these thoughts with you to cogiatate on your journey..........In the truck's case HP is stated in a go-fast manner,whereas in the tractor's case it is stated for workability.......Might help you to understand it a tad bit better.......

 

[Doc_Bob]

I'm sure this is a naive questions but I'll ask it anyway.

Can someone explain to me why I pay the so much more per horsepower for a tractor than I do for a truck?

Chevy Avalanche 2500 4WD costs $35,846 and can produce 325 hp @ 4200 rpm. That's about $110 / hp.

I have TN70A that I purchased used with 170 hours. 21K. 70 HP. Turbo. $300 per HP. Yes, very expensive for each HP.
Bob

 

[neverenough]

Actually, a tractor can't do any of those things. It can power and/or pull added cost implements that can do those things. A tractor by itself can just drive around slowly. It's roughly the same as selling the truck without a bed and charging extra for that.

As for the horsepower being unimportant till past 100mph, wow. Really, wow. Interested in any oceanfront land in nebraska?

Not too many years ago, trucks were sold without a box...or a rear bumper. They were seperate, and you were charged more for them. In order to cut costs, makers switched to "packages" that included the box whether it was a step side or style side. Not too long after that, they started to include a "standard" rear bumper. Not long after that, front plate holders became a "no charge" add on. It rather sucks how makers have gone from allowing you to order exactly what you want, to being forced into cookie cutter "packages". Sure, you can still custom order pretty much anything you want, but for the most part, it will cost you more than just getting the extra junk you don't want in the "package".

Now day's, some tractors come with a loader and even back hoes. A lot of them come with the mower too. As accesories, much like air, cruise, tilt, power windows, power seats, ect... You can add plows, discs, seed spreaders, rakes,ect... as part of the purchase "package". At least you can with a Deere.