Why is green paint so expensive?

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   / Why is green paint so expensive? #41  
Many years ago, when i purchased my 1st diesel cut, i set out to buy a deere. The dealer sold both green & orange, still doe's. I compared the two and kubota was thousands cheaper and a much better % rate on the payments! As it turns out kubota is a better machine for us because they are light and our primary use is on established turf. I think john deere builds a fine machine but they are way more expensive than blue,yellow,orange and red, her'e in massachusetts.
 
   / Why is green paint so expensive? #42  
Chip, If you are only considering the major brands and not the brand x (lower tier equipment) you basically pays your money and takes your chances. I have only owned one tractor but I've seen plenty and talked with many owners. There is good and bad experiences available to hear about regarding all the majors but the actual substantive differences in quality and performance just aren't there.

Like in biology where we learn that organisms competing for the same niche tend to have convergent development and evolution so as to end up very similar even if originally quite dissimilar, tractors tend to become similar in features due to the competition. Even though every so often one or another will try to add some feature to distinguish itself from the pack but if it positively changes the sales numbers then that feature will soom appear in the attribute lists of the other brands. None of these marketing organizations perform in a vacuum. They all keep a watchfull eye on the other guys.

Risking being flamed by some color bigot I'll say the color doesn't really matter and the GREEN ADVANTAGE is a self replicating myth based ever so much more on intangibles and well orchestreated hype than anything you can actually experience in performance, or longivity.

You pay a premium for green and if you sell you get some of it back. If you need an ego boost or bragging rights at the local country club, spit and whittle club, or (fill in the blank) then by all means join the fraternity, buy green and forever help keep the myth alive as a participant in the ongoing conspiracy to perpetuate the green is better myth. Few will admit (even to themselves) that they paid more for nothing more than to be able to be one of the JD guys and bask in the reflected glow of egos attuned to a common cause.

Not knocking JD at all as I believe in general theirs is a good product the equal of Kubota and other top brands, it just isn't superior and it costs more. There are still JD owners and new buyers who mistakenly believe the JD is American made. It isn't. The little tractors are make overseas. For the bigger tractors, the major subassemblies are built off shore and shipped to the US where these large lumps are bolted together into complete tractors. This is a far cry from American made. I stupidly thought I was buying American when I bought my Dodge/Cummins one ton which it turns out was Hecho in Mexico!

I might have actually gone green if it was truly made in the US. For supporting US built products I may have paid a premium. For some sort of entrance into a cult following who are sworn to be loyal to a myth I wouldn't pay 50 cents.

New Holland, MF, Kubota and many other non-green tractors can serve you well. Look carefully at your requirements. It matters not which tractor has more or fewer features if you will never need that feature. Define and refine your requirements! This is not easy! Most of us would rather compare specs and test drive and just about anything but sit down and actually make a list of the firm requirements the tractor has to meet. We'd rather think about all the bells and whistles the sales brochures and sallesmen tout. It is easier but it is bassackwards!

You need to make a list of all your requirements. This does not include nice to haves, it is must haves. Then you need to decide what attributes (features and such) the tractor would have to have to enable you to do all the required activities. Now you look for the most cost efective way to buy a tractor that does all those things. It probably won't be green but it is not impossible, as it depends on your REQUIREMENTS.

Sales organizations do not encourage this sort of activity as it drives you toward the least tractor that can enable you to do all you need to do. They prefer to upsell you to power and features that appeal to your ego and their imaginary mold they want you to see yourself filling.

I have seen folks do this requirements analysis and refinement very vigorously and then when faced with the actual buying decision buy what their ego (coached by experienced sales people) wants.

Short version: All major brands of tractors are good, that is how they got to become and remain major brands. If you have a requirement that can not be met by other brands (unlikely but possible) or need to join a mutual admiration society, then pay the extra and go with a JD.

Pat
 
   / Why is green paint so expensive? #43  
patrick_g said:
Not knocking JD at all as I believe in general theirs is a good product the equal of Kubota and other top brands, it just isn't superior and it costs more.

If a sentence starts with "I'm not knocking ... it's just that . . ." (or some such) it usually means the opposite. Here the translation would be -- Deere isn't worth what you pay for it.

But each person has to make their own value judgements. I won't pay extra just because a car has a merceedes symbol on the front. Chevy does me just fine. I do own two Deeres which I guess makes me an idiot along with all Deere owners because apparently Deeres are the same as the rest yet cost more (which I don't believe, see the first sentance of this paragraph.)

If you think all major tractor brands and dealers are the same, then you should buy the cheapest of those you can lay your hands on. If you think all tractors are the same, buy the cheapest tractor you can find. Any deviation from this basic statement is based on how you feel about quality, service and features for a brand and for a specific set of tractors in the size you're looking for.


Cliff
 
   / Why is green paint so expensive? #45  
Same story, another day! I have heard the "Deere makes a good tractor but the price is to much" or the " I wanted a deere but it was 2000 more" stories for years.
Here's an idea, GET WHAT YOU WANT. If your going to spend 20-30 thousand dollars, why not get what you like. I think it would really suck if you had to climb on to orange/blue/red tractor and say to yourself "I wish I had a Deere" and make a monthly payment on it also.
To me, I think spending money on something your not completely happy with is more "foolish" than paying a premium for what you want. I understand that sometimes $2000 is the difference that some cannot afford but to most of us here, that is not an issue.
 
   / Why is green paint so expensive? #46  
mike311 said:
I understand that sometimes $2000 is the difference that some cannot afford but to most of us here, that is not an issue.

Oh, well, count me with those for whom $2000 more would have way more than killed the deal (I couldn't afford it).
 
   / Why is green paint so expensive? #47  
Mike your posts make sense but I would differ with you to some extent. I am one of those that 2000 dollars really would not make a difference. I looked at JD tractors and to be honest the best deal they could give me was thousands of dollars more than the Montana I bought. I am sure that the JD would have done me very well for my application. It is a very well made tractor. I was a bit turned off that in the smaller tractor range they use an engine from a company that I have never heard of ( not to say that they are not a big company or that they dont make superior products.) The montana uses a Mitsubishi engine I have heard of them. I was watching a discovery channel show about them and the marine industry. They are one of the biggest marine diesel engine manufacturers in the world. I figure that anyone that can do that can probably make good tractor engines. I could have afforded to go with a JD in my case the comparison of like tractors carried about an 8000 dollar difference. That was after giving the JD dealership the price montana wanted and giving them some time to call the factory and see what kind of help the factory would give them in terms of discounts in order to get my buisness. I could not see paying the extra money for a tractor when both of them seemed to be able to do the job I needed it for. I know that Montana is a new name in the tractor buisness and I am taking a gamble that they will stay in buisness. I remember when kubota was the same kind of gamble and I think you can find thousands of satisfied kubota owners.

I think JD makes a very good product in todays global economy they might be more competitive if they worked on their priceing a bit. By the way they must make a heck of a 70 horse engine because montana uses a JD engine in their 70 horse model.
 
   / Why is green paint so expensive? #48  
mike311 said:
To me, I think spending money on something your not completely happy with is more "foolish" than paying a premium for what you want. I understand that sometimes $2000 is the difference that some cannot afford but to most of us here, that is not an issue.


That was a "qualified statement". What "qualified it was the first two words...... "To me......"

To a great many of us, we are completly happy with other brands. We would see it as "foolish" to spend MORE because of a percieved "status" associated with buying Green. Almost 20 years ago, I bought the last of my "new" (at that time) Deere's. (bigger "AG" tractor) I could have bought anything at that time. I HAD to have a Deere. It listed for almost double the selling price of most of todays compacts. (4250 MFWD, cab, powershift, 110hp) So you're right about that in my case. It's not a matter of what I can or can't afford. It was STRICTLY a business desicion. The same sort of business desicion led me to SELL that tractor after a few years because it was tying up too much operating capital, all the while being no better, no more efficient than 4 OTHER tractors I owned (of other colors).

My point? In spite of the hype, I was never able to justify the price of Deere ownership vs. other brands that were just as good. They're GOOD tractors. So is the products of those other brands. It's far from the "Everyone wants one, just that some can't afford a Deere" thinking that seems to be so common. Some of us are feeling mighty fine about our "red tractors" or "blue tractors", PLUS we still have money left over.

And by my way of thinking, it would be VERY foolish just to buy regardless of cost based on a percieved notion that one "color" is ALWAYS superior. 'cause it's not...... BTDT, paid the price myself a couple times.
 
   / Why is green paint so expensive? #49  
Cliff, I have to disagree with you. I have operated JD and seen plenty others in action and talked with owners face to face. JD has GOOD stuff. It just isn't better stuff than several other major manufacturers.

You almost got it right when paraphrasing. If someone believes that all the major manufacturers are major because they produce comparable equipment then with essentially equal features you CAN shop by price. Of course you have to make minor allowances because few tractors are identical across makers.

If someone is, as you mention, believing that all tractors are the same then they are beyond our help and we waste their and our time. Of course there are exceptions to nearly everything and there will be specific instances when a particular maker will have a mix of attributes that are just what someone needs and isn't offered in quite such a good fit by others. That maker could be JD or any of the other majors.

So let me emphasize, I am not bashing JD unless all it takes to bash them is to point out that in many instances you pay more for about the same thing (less the green ego thing.)

I'd be on a JD if at the time I bought they had a price/feature ratio which was a better fit for what I thought I needed to meet my requirements. I shopped. Jd had neat stuff. They didn't have a tractor that fit my requirements for the price I could get a Kubota that met my requirements. I don't think that in general Kubota is better or worse than a JD, and as you have said not always cheaper. There are nearly always exceptions but what I have observed is JD charges more on average for their foreign built but darned good tractor than I can buy other foreign built and darned good tractors for.

I don't think that if a prospective tractor buyer buys NON-GREEN that they have made a grievous error. If they do their homework and refine their requirements realistically and shop major brands and let the chips fall where they may with no emotion then they may well buy a JD but if I had to wager I'd bet that on average green would cost more.

Pat
 
   / Why is green paint so expensive? #50  
gemini5362 said:
I was a bit turned off that in the smaller tractor range they use an engine from a company that I have never heard of .

?? So who is the co. you had never heard of...??

If it's yanmar.. I'd feel safer with a yanmar marinediesel in my boat than a mitsu... Yanmar has a long good name in diesels..

Soundguy
 
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