JimParker
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2006
- Messages
- 98
- Tractor
- John Deere 3320 eHydro
What bothers me in these discussions is the implication that the tractors being considered are "identical" and that the only difference between them is the color of the paint and name on the side.
What follows is my personal story of how I chose my tractor and brand, and why I get a bit perturbed
when people imply that all tractors are the same, except that JD tractors just cost more, and that their owners only bought them because either a) they fell for the JD "hype", or b) they have more money than they know what to do with, or c) they just don't know any better...
[Warning: long post follows...]
When I was looking, I saw major differences between the five brands I evaluated: JD, NH, Kubota, Montana, and Mahindra. I would have liked to see the Massey Fergusson tractors, but there is no dealer close enough to me for it to be practical. Ditto for Kioti and some of the other mid-sized brands. So here's what I experienced...
The Montana tractor I looked at was very "rough". Some of the welds looked like crap, the paint was not particularly uniform in color and quality (different pieces were different shades of green), but in general, it looked like a "decent" piece of equipment. Ergonomics touches were almost non-existent - non-floating seat, non-adjustable (and too close for me) steering wheel, etc. Deciding factor for me? The dealer/salesman couldn't be bothered to come outside to talk to me, despite the fact that I was crawling all over (and under) various models in his product line, and when I looked into the shop area, it looked like the aftermath of a hurricane - stuff strewn all over, and a partially disassembled engine sitting on the ground, surrounded by loose parts rolling in grit. I'm sure I could have paid less for a Montana than the others, but I would never have been comfortable with that dealer doing the service - and he's the only one around. Scratch one from the list.
Next stop was the New Holland/Mahindra dealer. The sales rep was among the best I worked with. He knew his stuff, and knew how to "sell" his equipment without bashing the other guy's stuff. He pointed out things that differentiated his brands and models from each other, and from their competition, without making a judgement call as to whether this was something I needed/wanted or not. Just made the observations. He also took the time to understand what I planned to do with the tractor before showing me anything. He also showed me something that he thought was below my needs and above my needs, explaining why he thought so in each case. I learned a lot from the experience. He also showed me the shop area, which was well organized and reasonably clean, and had a wide variety of equipment in for service. I would have been very comfortable buying from him.
His Mahindra tractors looked extremely tough, and heavy to go along with it. If I wanted a larger ag tractor, I would have been far more interested, because their gear tractors truly were FAR less expensive than the other big brands. The ergonomics of the smaller tractors, however, were not a good fit for me. The operator station felt very cramped and uncomfortable, and I didn't like the "feel" sitting there. I couldn't imagine spending an entire day in that operator station. Their hydro model was a lot pricier than the gear tractors, but hydro is necessary for me because I want my wife to be able to use the tractor. And finally, the salesman himself seemed to be (very politely) steering me away from the hydro model that fit my criteria the best, pointing out that it was new to the product line, and they didn't have much experience with it. I took the hint, and we went on to look at his NH line (TC-series).
There was a lot about the TC-series that I really liked, including the swivel seat (nice for someone with a slightly stiff back), and the tilt/telescoping steering wheel. Super-steer was interesting, and evidence of innovative engineering, but overkill for my property. The NH hydro appeared to be slightly more efficient (larger % of the engine HP made it to the PTO), and frankly, I think the blue color is very nice-looking. I really liked the control arrangement, with the fender-mounted controls that eliminate that "scratching my butt" feel that some tractors have when operating the 3PH controls... All in all, there were a very few things that I didn't like, including the "rocker-pedal" for the HST (I'm used to the dual-pedal arrangement on my riding mower). The New Holland TC stayed on my "short list" to the very end.
The Kubota was another story. It was the Kubota BX series that first got me thinking about a tractor for my property. I saw a guy using a back-hoe on a small orange machine, and thought "Wow, I might be able to actually afford one of those for my property." Thanks in part to TBN, I quickly realized that the BX was way too small for my needs, but that the L or Grand-L series might be just the ticket. I went to the dealer after work. They were closed. I went on Saturday late afternoon. They were closed. So I just walked around and looked at the tractors. Saw my first "cab" model... Tempting, but way too expensive. Finally saw some of the mid-sized machines like I was needing. I got on them, and found the operator station to be a pretty crowded. The FEL controls were very awkwardly placed (though I've since learned that Kubota also offers an "upgrade" to reposition the FEL controls by the seat). I tried out the "treadle" pedal for the Hydro, and something caught my eye. It took a while to sink in, but when it did, I couldn't believe my eyes: the rocker pedal for the hydro and the steering brakes (split pedal) are both the right-hand side of the tractor. I wondered to myself - how in the heck do you apply differential braking while making a tight turn, or when one wheel loses traction and begins to spin, or... You must remove your foot from the hydro pedal to press the brake, which means you come to a stop. On others, you work the brake with the left foot and the hydro with the right, meaning that you can stop the spinning wheel with the brake and pull yourself out. Or apply "inside" brakes to make a tighter turn while still pressing the "go" pedal. I tried reaching both feet to that side - just to see if it could be done - and I could not. I talked to people on TBN about it, and sure enough, it's just an unbelievably stupid design decision. This seems like a serious safety issue to me, and was enough to cause me to not bother to return when the dealership was open.
Finally, the John Deere... OK, in fairness, my wife really wanted a Deere all along. She HATED the idea of Mahindra, and didn't like the color or styling of the NH. With that disclaimer out of the way, the purchase decision would have nothing to do with that - she would come around eventually, I was sure, no matter what decision I made.
I was already familiar with the JD dealer, because I bought a riding mower from them 11 years ago. They've got a great shop with knowledgeable mechanics, and have always treated me well. The salesman I worked with is the same guy who sold me the lawn tractor, and he's very knowledgeable, easy to work with, and very much a no-nonsense kind of guy. Again, no "bashing" of other products, or trying to live off Deere's past reputation, just information about his products, and specific things that he feels are their competitive advantages. Good guy...
When I looked the JD tractors, they impressed me as better finished, better appointed, and better throught out than the other brands I looked at. (Except for NH, which I would say appeared to be JD's equal in this regard.) There are no "rough edges" to this thing. The air ride seat is extremely comfortable, and there is sufficient adjustment to the seat and tilt-wheel for me to find an "all-day" position that works. All of the controls are very convenient and easy to use -- except one (the 3rd SCV lever, which is too close to the seat - but that's nit-picking - and it's the one I will certainly use the least). The rest of the controls and ergonomics all just seemed "right" to me.
After all was said and done, my "short list" was down to 2 tractors: JD 3320 and NH TC-31. Both dealers seemed great. Both tractors seemed great. Now we're down to pricing. I was fully expecting that the NH guy would cream the JD guy on pricing. What I found was the opposite. The JD turned out to be well over $1,000 less than the best price for the NH. Furthermore, the JD dealer quoted his "best" price to me up front, with no negotiation, whereas I had to beat up the NH guy to get the "best price" that I got. When the NH guy came back with a more comparable offer, they had substituted a lower cost, light-duty rotary cutter for the medium-duty one that we had agreed I needed. The salesman was obviously embarrassed about it - and pointed it out "up front" so that I wouldn't lose respect for him, but that was the best they could do.
So, when you hear that JD is "always" more expensive - it's not necessarily true. And when you hear that there are no "real" differences between the various brands - it's flat out not true. There were lots of distinguishing features on each and every one of these tractors.
The bottom line: You are going to live with the tractor for a long time, if you pick the right one. Take your time. Visit dealerships. Sit on the various tractors, and (if possible) test drive as many as you can. Decide which features are important to you, and how much you're willing to pay for them. (I love the cab, but it just wasn't worth the money to me, based on my expected use over the next 10-15 years.) Then get pricing from the dealers, and make your choice and be happy with it. If you decide to spend a bit more to get a feature that you particularly like, you're making an informed decision. If you decide that the additional feature (the NH swivel seat, for me) was a luxury you could live without, then don't pay for it.
Just don't let anyone here on TBN talk you into (or out of) something based on THEIR values, desires, or needs. THEY won't be the one living with the tractor...
Just my nickel's worth of opinion. (Too long to be a 2-cent opinion...)
What follows is my personal story of how I chose my tractor and brand, and why I get a bit perturbed
when people imply that all tractors are the same, except that JD tractors just cost more, and that their owners only bought them because either a) they fell for the JD "hype", or b) they have more money than they know what to do with, or c) they just don't know any better...[Warning: long post follows...]
When I was looking, I saw major differences between the five brands I evaluated: JD, NH, Kubota, Montana, and Mahindra. I would have liked to see the Massey Fergusson tractors, but there is no dealer close enough to me for it to be practical. Ditto for Kioti and some of the other mid-sized brands. So here's what I experienced...
The Montana tractor I looked at was very "rough". Some of the welds looked like crap, the paint was not particularly uniform in color and quality (different pieces were different shades of green), but in general, it looked like a "decent" piece of equipment. Ergonomics touches were almost non-existent - non-floating seat, non-adjustable (and too close for me) steering wheel, etc. Deciding factor for me? The dealer/salesman couldn't be bothered to come outside to talk to me, despite the fact that I was crawling all over (and under) various models in his product line, and when I looked into the shop area, it looked like the aftermath of a hurricane - stuff strewn all over, and a partially disassembled engine sitting on the ground, surrounded by loose parts rolling in grit. I'm sure I could have paid less for a Montana than the others, but I would never have been comfortable with that dealer doing the service - and he's the only one around. Scratch one from the list.
Next stop was the New Holland/Mahindra dealer. The sales rep was among the best I worked with. He knew his stuff, and knew how to "sell" his equipment without bashing the other guy's stuff. He pointed out things that differentiated his brands and models from each other, and from their competition, without making a judgement call as to whether this was something I needed/wanted or not. Just made the observations. He also took the time to understand what I planned to do with the tractor before showing me anything. He also showed me something that he thought was below my needs and above my needs, explaining why he thought so in each case. I learned a lot from the experience. He also showed me the shop area, which was well organized and reasonably clean, and had a wide variety of equipment in for service. I would have been very comfortable buying from him.
His Mahindra tractors looked extremely tough, and heavy to go along with it. If I wanted a larger ag tractor, I would have been far more interested, because their gear tractors truly were FAR less expensive than the other big brands. The ergonomics of the smaller tractors, however, were not a good fit for me. The operator station felt very cramped and uncomfortable, and I didn't like the "feel" sitting there. I couldn't imagine spending an entire day in that operator station. Their hydro model was a lot pricier than the gear tractors, but hydro is necessary for me because I want my wife to be able to use the tractor. And finally, the salesman himself seemed to be (very politely) steering me away from the hydro model that fit my criteria the best, pointing out that it was new to the product line, and they didn't have much experience with it. I took the hint, and we went on to look at his NH line (TC-series).
There was a lot about the TC-series that I really liked, including the swivel seat (nice for someone with a slightly stiff back), and the tilt/telescoping steering wheel. Super-steer was interesting, and evidence of innovative engineering, but overkill for my property. The NH hydro appeared to be slightly more efficient (larger % of the engine HP made it to the PTO), and frankly, I think the blue color is very nice-looking. I really liked the control arrangement, with the fender-mounted controls that eliminate that "scratching my butt" feel that some tractors have when operating the 3PH controls... All in all, there were a very few things that I didn't like, including the "rocker-pedal" for the HST (I'm used to the dual-pedal arrangement on my riding mower). The New Holland TC stayed on my "short list" to the very end.
The Kubota was another story. It was the Kubota BX series that first got me thinking about a tractor for my property. I saw a guy using a back-hoe on a small orange machine, and thought "Wow, I might be able to actually afford one of those for my property." Thanks in part to TBN, I quickly realized that the BX was way too small for my needs, but that the L or Grand-L series might be just the ticket. I went to the dealer after work. They were closed. I went on Saturday late afternoon. They were closed. So I just walked around and looked at the tractors. Saw my first "cab" model... Tempting, but way too expensive. Finally saw some of the mid-sized machines like I was needing. I got on them, and found the operator station to be a pretty crowded. The FEL controls were very awkwardly placed (though I've since learned that Kubota also offers an "upgrade" to reposition the FEL controls by the seat). I tried out the "treadle" pedal for the Hydro, and something caught my eye. It took a while to sink in, but when it did, I couldn't believe my eyes: the rocker pedal for the hydro and the steering brakes (split pedal) are both the right-hand side of the tractor. I wondered to myself - how in the heck do you apply differential braking while making a tight turn, or when one wheel loses traction and begins to spin, or... You must remove your foot from the hydro pedal to press the brake, which means you come to a stop. On others, you work the brake with the left foot and the hydro with the right, meaning that you can stop the spinning wheel with the brake and pull yourself out. Or apply "inside" brakes to make a tighter turn while still pressing the "go" pedal. I tried reaching both feet to that side - just to see if it could be done - and I could not. I talked to people on TBN about it, and sure enough, it's just an unbelievably stupid design decision. This seems like a serious safety issue to me, and was enough to cause me to not bother to return when the dealership was open.
Finally, the John Deere... OK, in fairness, my wife really wanted a Deere all along. She HATED the idea of Mahindra, and didn't like the color or styling of the NH. With that disclaimer out of the way, the purchase decision would have nothing to do with that - she would come around eventually, I was sure, no matter what decision I made.
I was already familiar with the JD dealer, because I bought a riding mower from them 11 years ago. They've got a great shop with knowledgeable mechanics, and have always treated me well. The salesman I worked with is the same guy who sold me the lawn tractor, and he's very knowledgeable, easy to work with, and very much a no-nonsense kind of guy. Again, no "bashing" of other products, or trying to live off Deere's past reputation, just information about his products, and specific things that he feels are their competitive advantages. Good guy...
When I looked the JD tractors, they impressed me as better finished, better appointed, and better throught out than the other brands I looked at. (Except for NH, which I would say appeared to be JD's equal in this regard.) There are no "rough edges" to this thing. The air ride seat is extremely comfortable, and there is sufficient adjustment to the seat and tilt-wheel for me to find an "all-day" position that works. All of the controls are very convenient and easy to use -- except one (the 3rd SCV lever, which is too close to the seat - but that's nit-picking - and it's the one I will certainly use the least). The rest of the controls and ergonomics all just seemed "right" to me.
After all was said and done, my "short list" was down to 2 tractors: JD 3320 and NH TC-31. Both dealers seemed great. Both tractors seemed great. Now we're down to pricing. I was fully expecting that the NH guy would cream the JD guy on pricing. What I found was the opposite. The JD turned out to be well over $1,000 less than the best price for the NH. Furthermore, the JD dealer quoted his "best" price to me up front, with no negotiation, whereas I had to beat up the NH guy to get the "best price" that I got. When the NH guy came back with a more comparable offer, they had substituted a lower cost, light-duty rotary cutter for the medium-duty one that we had agreed I needed. The salesman was obviously embarrassed about it - and pointed it out "up front" so that I wouldn't lose respect for him, but that was the best they could do.
So, when you hear that JD is "always" more expensive - it's not necessarily true. And when you hear that there are no "real" differences between the various brands - it's flat out not true. There were lots of distinguishing features on each and every one of these tractors.
The bottom line: You are going to live with the tractor for a long time, if you pick the right one. Take your time. Visit dealerships. Sit on the various tractors, and (if possible) test drive as many as you can. Decide which features are important to you, and how much you're willing to pay for them. (I love the cab, but it just wasn't worth the money to me, based on my expected use over the next 10-15 years.) Then get pricing from the dealers, and make your choice and be happy with it. If you decide to spend a bit more to get a feature that you particularly like, you're making an informed decision. If you decide that the additional feature (the NH swivel seat, for me) was a luxury you could live without, then don't pay for it.
Just don't let anyone here on TBN talk you into (or out of) something based on THEIR values, desires, or needs. THEY won't be the one living with the tractor...
Just my nickel's worth of opinion. (Too long to be a 2-cent opinion...)
