Why not make a fixed ROPS foldable???

[HarleyScooter]

I find this interesting, what do some of you do with your tractors? If I were to roll my tractor it would end up on it's side, at say 5 mph unless you are on a cliff it would just go on it's side. We are not running outlaw racers, if someone wants to modify their rop's it is up to them. Any good design on a hinge and a decent weld will hold up to a slow roll onto it's side. Welds are very strong if done properly, I know alot of you guy's do projects, think about the last time you were trying to take something apart and missed cutting a small weld somewhere, even a tac can be hard to break. This is just my humble opinion after being a certified welder for 27 years prior to my retirement. But everyone has to do what makes them feel safe.

 

[daTeacha]

Henro -- wouldn't it be more of a rural legend than a urban one?? I don't know too many city types with tractors. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regarding the brakes on trucks and cars -- the issue isn't so much whether or not the things will stop the car/truck in normal driving, but how they will perform in a long hard stop. Brakes work by converting motion to heat through friction. If you reduce the mass of the brake disc or drum, you reduce it's ability to dissipate heat, allowing it to get too hot in a long downhill application with a heavy load. The extra heat will boil your brake fluid, making the brakes go away (fade), causing you to lose your ability to stop, leading to a collision with the resultant losses to life, limb or property. Isit likely to happen? No. Is it safe to turn your rotors a bit beyond specs? Probably, if all your stopping is normal and you don't turn them so far that the pads fall out of the calipers when you push hard. Would I do it? No.

Are there people out there making sure you don't modify your ROPS? No, they only exist on forums like this.

Will you run into legal problems if you change your own ROPS? No. Just like seatbelts, they things are there to meet a legal requirement for the manufacture and sale of the equipment. BUT, since running a tractor around on your own land does not yet require a license or government permission (Thank You, God) to my knowledge, you can pretty much do what you want with the thing.

Will you be liable if someone gets hurt while using your tractor with a modified ROPS? Maybe, if they can prove negligence on your part was a contributing factor to any injury they received or damage they caused.

All conversations of this type boil down to who is going to be asked/sued to pay how much in the event of an unlikely occurrence.

Some of us are risk takers and just say change it and don't worry about it. Others are worriers and say don't change it no matter what. Some of us accept responsibility for our actions or live with the fact that accidents happen. Others figure everything that goes wrong in life is someone elses fault and that someone should be made to pay for causing a little unpleasantness in their life.

The manufacturers have deep pockets from the perspecitive of the normal person, and are prime targets of the liability lawyers who advertise on TV for people who got hurt somehow to come see them. Therefore, they write their owners manuals with all kinds of warnings, cautions, health and safety risks, etc. They do everything they can to cover their um, differentials, in case they get sued. Same with commercial users, rental companies, and employers.

Would I mod my ROPS if it needed it? Yes.
Would I sue someone if I rolled the tractor and got hurt, regardless of ROPS performance? No. I figure it's my fault if I roll the tractor, not the fault of the guy who built it. The only way I would consider such a thing is if a wheel broke due to a manufacturing defect or something and caused the rollover.
Would my survivors do so if I was killed? I certainly hope not. I wouldn't want to think I had married or raised people of that type.

We try to teach 4 R's in my school, not just 3. Readin', 'Ritin', 'Rithmetic, and RESPONSIBILITY.

 

[PILOON]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( HEY BILL ; i would do it and worry about it later. If i was to buy a new tractor and the Rops wast tall to fit in my garage, i would have no quals about cutting it and shorting it and welding it back together. )</font>

However if you'd want to preserve the strength you would have to use an insert or inner sleeve.
This procedure is used all the time to repair aircraft structural tubing parts and very specific guides exist covering the issue.

I once modified seat assemblies and they passed tests up to 12g's.

I'd suggest that the sleeve method would be safest way to create a substiture for a foldable ROPS providing the insert is long enough and a snug fit and surely superior to any hinge.

Not mentioned in this thread is another possibility.

If the additional clearance needed is minor and the rops is offset from the axle you could always 'hump' your way under a doorframe by driving the front wheels over a ramp.
When the front lifts up the back will lower.
We used to get aircraft with ,say, a 23ft tail into a hanger with a 20ft door that way.

Might be a solution in some cases.

 

[TheKid]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( And when you sell the tractor, your mod will continue to carry, in my mind, YOUR liability to whoever operates it. )</font>

One way around the libility issue would be to have the new owner sign a liability wavier which includes the information that the ROPS has been modified and it no longer meets OSHA regulations.

Waviers are so common today that I'd bet almost everyone here has signed a few of them. If your kids play any type of organized sports, or you have ever rented any type of tool or equipment you've signed one. In some cases, like going to a baseball game, you don't even have to sign a wavier for it to be in effect.

 

[Henro]

The reason I brought this up was a comment by RonR in another thread where he indicated he had a strong desire to have a folding ROPS on his tractor. For some reason that sentence he wrote stuck in my mind after reading it. RonR REALLY seemed to want a folding ROPS. I could feel it...

Being a practical kind of guy part of the time, in my mind I tried to blow the smoke out of the way and to see the issue at hand.

Is there any reason to believe that a qualified welder should not be able to duplicate what a welder in the factory does? Doubt it. Is there any reason why the end result should be weaker than the original folding ROPS, if the OEM design is duplicated? Doubt it. Net conclusion on my part? If the hinge was added and the tractor rolled or back flipped, protection offered by the ROPS would not be less than what is offered by OEM folding ROPS.

From the practical side, the protection offered should be as good as it was to start with. All the other legal issues fit into the smoke side of the equation in my mind. I don't mean to make light of them as they are real issues, especially if the tractor would be used in a commercial venture, etc. But we are talking home use by a private party.

Granted I am putting some faith in Kubota engineers and assume that the hinge assembly they designed is adequate for the job intended.

To carry this discussion a step further, some of you may remember that I added a light duty FOPS to my tractor. The reason was because I feared that trees on my back hill, and had visions of sugar plumbs dancing in my head...no, that's not it...had visions of the tractor with ROPS up, and with me securely belted in, going over on its side, next to a tree, with the tree on my side of the ROPS...can't get the belt loose, tree folds me in half and squeezes me into the seat...OUCH!

So I built this "head protector" that slips over the ROPS, and is held securely in place at the ROPS end and also supported in the front by the loader structure.

Using the logic discussed in this thread, my modification would be "illegal" too, wouldn't it? By the same token, this protector has protected my head a couple times from falling stuff, including a full bundle of shingles, that slid down the loader arms and was caught by the hood guard and front uprights. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif But that's another story...

This modification actually has helped make my tractor safer than it was with just a ROPS on it. I am glad I did not let the smoke get in my eyes and prevent me from implementing this idea on my tractor.

Ironic, but the B2910 ROPS is folding, but it has never been folded and probably never will be... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Wonder if I should weld that hinge up and make it stronger, since I am never going to use it anyway? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Attached is a picture of the bad boy... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[daTeacha]

But, if you rolled the tractor with the FOPS on it and tried to hold the tractor manufacturer responsible for a poorly designed tractor that rolled too easily, you could lose due to the extra weight you have added up high.

Now that you're done laughing, think about the folks who sued car manufacturers after they drove their SUV's like sports cars and rolled them over. Anyone here is going to understand that a 6 1/2' tall 4X4 station wagon with a load on the roof rack is not going to go around a corner like a Porsche, but that basic bit of knowledge is not found in the heads of all who are able to buy and drive a private vehicle.

As far as how we use our tractors, if I roll mine on my property, it will most likely not simply land on it's side and stop there without the ROPS. It would roll like a lumpy log down the hill. Going up a hill with a 4X4 tractor and a load on the back can make them flip over backwards, again making a ROPS a very handy thing to have.

Just a thought about folding vs. non-folding ROPS. On the same model tractor, are they bolted to the tractor in the same way? I seem to remember a difference in the way the things are mounted, which in turn would mean differences in the way they are stressed in a rollover, which would lead to some question about the integrity of changes to the structure even if the original design hinges were used.

It's amazing to me how much time and thought we spend on something none of us ever intends to use for it's designed purpose. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[RedRocker]

You were my mentor Henro, the same thoughts entered my mind about a tree falling on me from the side while I was safely strapped into my seat.

 

[HarleyScooter]

daTeacha, I totally agree with your statement about a tractor without a ROPS being like a lumpy log going down a hill, when I made the statement about just rolling on its side I was refering to a tractor with a ROPS. The way changing my friends ROPS to folding came about was because he was going to take it off and leave it off, I thought that would be a bad idea so I told him I could make it fold if HE WANTED. The first time out with the modified ROPS he kind of tried it out, it is the first tractor with a ROPS that he has operated and he caught a tree branch with it and the front of the tractor got pretty high in the air before the ROPS slipped under the branch. By the way were is Funk?
I guess we will be ok if we keep the shiny side up?

 

[Jagmandave]

Since I made my own ROPs, if and/or when I sell the tractor I'll remove it and either give it to the new owner labeled as "Scrap metal" or keep it............but while I have my tractor, I feel comfortable with it on there, it's better than what I had before, which was nuttin!
I had no qualms about making it or installing it, and while I'm not a "Certified" welder, I've been doing it long enough that I feel competent enough to risk at least my own life with it........

 

[daTeacha]

Well, HarleyScooter, since you're a fellow Buckeye, I'm just totally flabbergasted that you haven't been to Funk yet! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm about 45 minutes from Belden Village mall. My kids just blew Cleveland Benedictine out of the water at the Canton Civic Center last night if you're a b'ball fan.

To find Funk, go west on 30 to Wooster. Then go south at the 3/226 exit. When you come to the first traffic light by Miller Well supply, turn right onto SR 95. Go about 5 miles to Blachleyville, cross the flats if the road isn't under water for the next mile or so, and Bingo! you are in Funk. If you prefer, follow 30 right through Wooster, continue towards Mansfield until you find county road 16 crossing 30. Turn south. Go about 4 or 5 miles to the stop sign and you are at the Funk Country Mall, also known as the General Store and Sherriff's outpost. That's beautiful downtown Funk. I live in the 'burbs. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have a house and 2400 sq. ft. shop sitting on 7.5 acres of wooded land for sale if you want to move out to the country and help pay for my tractor purchase. -- 15 minutes from town and a few light years from city life.