why one should ALWAYS carry your weapon

jonyyuma · Mar 8, 2012

rsewill said:
And if he had been white you would have no doubt done the same. I know if you had asked me what I was doing I would have told you to kiss off.

Rightfully So, Then watch you like a hawk...

dmccarty · Mar 8, 2012

texasjohn said:
Bad deal, black boy walking with skittles vs white neighborhood watch captain with pistol in a car. Boy gets shot and watch captain not charged. On the surface doesn't seem right....surely more to the story...or maybe not.

It stinks to high heaven. The kid was unarmed. The guy shot and killed him. Was the watch captain smaller than the teenager? At first I saw it was Sanford so I was thinking old dude approaching young dude but the watch captain was 25. What was the reason for the use of deadly force?

It stinks.... It smells....

I assume no witnesses so that makes things more difficult. I also assume the POlice know more but ain't saying.

Later,
Dan

TripleR · Mar 8, 2012

dmccarty said:
If you were in my neighborhood, standing around or sitting in a car, we would call 911. We have done it many times on people we do not recognize and doing odd things. Race has nothing to do with it.

Later,
Dan

When I was working, I always stopped by the local Police Department or Sheriffs Office and told them I was going to be in the area doing surveillance, home checks and such whether it was in a black, white or mixed neighborhood or area. People routinely called the Police to report me as they should and would notify me via radio. We should always be aware of what is going on around us and if concerned contact someone. Sometimes it can be handled by simply asking if you can help someone, but the situation fully assessed before hand.

2manyrocks · Mar 8, 2012

There are some neighborhoods where the police will stop an unfamilar car whether there's other probable cause for a stop or not.

TripleR · Mar 8, 2012

2manyrocks said:
There are some neighborhoods where the police will stop an unfamilar car whether there's other probable cause for a stop or not.

Sadly that is not at all unusual. I call it "stopped for driving at night". I use to prefer to take trips at night when there was less traffic, but I often got pulled over with some story of weaving within my lane, crossing the white line or something. I was once taken out of my car while my young son was with me. I was kind of curious as to how far he would go, but when he approached my son, I put an end to it. Some people really should not be in Law Enforcement.

jonyyuma · Mar 8, 2012

Been there, it is not pleasant, and probably not right, but most of the time you are at their Mercy???Then LEO is thought badly of in the future??

TripleR · Mar 8, 2012

jonyyuma said:
Been there, it is not pleasant, and probably not right, but most of the time you are at their Mercy???Then LEO is thought badly of in the future??

It helps to know the law as set forth in Terry v Ohio 392 U.S. 1 (1968) as well as any relevant statutes in the particular state, but you are right, if that fails, you are at their mercy at that time with remedial action to be taken after the fact.

I really hate to come across too pro or con on such issues, but I can't deny there can be problems. Years ago, I was stopped at an inspection road block. Missouri had no CCW in those days and a weapon had to be in plain sight. I just happened to have my handgun on my console when the Trooper asked to see my gun, I complied thinking it was out of curiosity. He then asked if I had any other weapons in my car to which I replied, "Sure, I have two or three somewhere in the back." As they were not within "easy reach and convenient control" even concealed they were not illegal. He got all excited and demanded that I give them to him. At this point I identified myself and gave him my credentials. His attitude changed real quick and we parted fast friends. I can only imagine how that day would have turned out for an ordinary citizen who was doing absolutely nothing illegal.

I did not identify myself immediately upon being stopped as I did not want to appear to be trying to get any favors. Our policy later changed to require we identify ourselves immediately upon being stopped and advise we were armed.

dmccarty · Mar 8, 2012

TripleR said:
Sadly that is not at all unusual. I call it "stopped for driving at night". I use to prefer to take trips at night when there was less traffic, but I often got pulled over with some story of weaving within my lane, crossing the white line or something. I was once taken out of my car while my young son was with me. I was kind of curious as to how far he would go, but when he approached my son, I put an end to it. Some people really should not be in Law Enforcement.

ABSOLUTELY!

When I used to live in a city, I was driving home late one night. There was no traffic to speak off and I got to a major intersection. I saw that a POlice car had seen me and pulled off into a parking lot to watch me.

He REALLY was hoping I was going to run the light since there was no traffic in sight. :laughing: Not me.

He was a hoping though.

The officer did not do anything wrong though but they sure hoped I would. :laughing:

Later,
Dan

texasjohn · Mar 8, 2012

Race had nothing to do with my talking to the fellow standing around, alone, at 8PM.....Female reporting the fellow to me did not mention race, only that it was unusual for anyone to be standing there...she frequently passes that location at that time of night. I drove past him once doing my own personal observation, turned around placing him on the car's passenger side, drove up with doors locked, window rolled down, and asked him if I could help him or if he had lost something. Ensuing discussion convinced me he was sober, mentally competent, not obviously on any drugs and not nervous or seeking to avoid observation. Thus I saw no need to involve 911.

There is nothing wrong with caution and situational awareness... but a balance needs to be struck between non-involvement or a blind eye, vigilante-ism and calling 911 for any little concern. Every situation is different, every person's threat perception is different, as is their ability to respond.

What should NOT happen is to get killed while bringing skittles to your brother!

TripleR · Mar 8, 2012

dmccarty said:
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ABSOLUTELY!

When I used to live in a city, I was driving home late one night. There was no traffic to speak off and I got to a major intersection. I saw that a POlice car had seen me and pulled off into a parking lot to watch me. He REALLY was hoping I was going to run the light since there was no traffic in sight. :laughing: Not me. He was a hoping though.

The officer did not do anything wrong though but they sure hoped I would. :laughing:

Later,
Dan

I sat in on a "Motion to Suppress Hearing" several years ago as a claim was made that there was no probable cause fr the stop. The first Trooper testified that he first became suspicious when he observed the vehicle driving exactly at the posted speed limit as he said, "No one drive exactly at the limit, they are either over or under. He went through the median and pulled in behind the vehicle and admitted he followed it in order to observe a violation to justify a stop. He followed for about forty miles and when he was reaching the end of his patrol zone, he radioed ahead to have the next Trooper begin following him. Within five miles the other Trooper observed an "improper lane change" and pulled him over. Amazing how the guy managed to drive all that way and not make one mistake then do one so quickly with a different Trooper. I knew all of the Troopers and the first Trooper issued more citations than any of the others, but if you got a ticket from him, you could rest assured, you had done something wrong.

dmccarty · Mar 8, 2012

TripleR said:
I sat in on a "Motion to Suppress Hearing" several years ago as a claim was made that there was no probable cause fr the stop. The first Trooper testified that he first became suspicious when he observed the vehicle driving exactly at the posted speed limit as he said, "No one drive exactly at the limit, they are either over or under. He went through the median and pulled in behind the vehicle and admitted he followed it in order to observe a violation to justify a stop. He followed for about forty miles and when he was reaching the end of his patrol zone, he radioed ahead to have the next Trooper begin following him. Within five miles the other Trooper observed an "improper lane change" and pulled him over. Amazing how the guy managed to drive all that way and not make one mistake then do one so quickly with a different Trooper. I knew all of the Troopers and the first Trooper issued more citations than any of the others, but if you got a ticket from him, you could rest assured, you had done something wrong.

That was a chicken scat ticket.

I have had TWO chicken scat tickets. :laughing:

Later,
Dan

jonyyuma · Mar 8, 2012

dmccarty said:
That was a chicken scat ticket. I have had TWO chicken scat tickets. :laughing:

Later,
Dan

I can join in on that theory, I've had them follow me for miles out of town just to watch for any little problem..THE Reason probably was it was late at night, after the drive-in movies---Remember them and the double feature??/Anyway I passed and there was a yellow line when i needed toget back in right lane. Needless to say they take license and take you back to town for their fun and your punishing fine...

dmccarty · Mar 8, 2012

texasjohn said:
...

There is nothing wrong with caution and situational awareness... but a balance needs to be struck between non-involvement or a blind eye, vigilante-ism and calling 911 for any little concern. Every situation is different, every person's threat perception is different, as is their ability to respond.

Exactly. My wifey has had three situations at the house where she called 911. In all three cases she called me, described what was happening and asked what to do. In two of those cases, I told her to turn around, drive to a safe spot and call 911. In these two cases *** I *** would not have called 911 since if anything bad would have happened I could deal with the situation. She would be far less able to safely handle things.

The third incident I would have called 911.

I have been home and had three incidents which I handled. If she had been home at least two of these incidents would have required a 911 call. The third one was borderline. It could be argued that in these two incidents *** I *** should have called 911 since one involved trespasser shooting on our land. The other situation was also with trespassers, and based on their behavior, I think they were armed as well. In any case, I handled it which is not something most people should do.

texasjohn said:
...
What should NOT happen is to get killed while bringing skittles to your brother!

Agreed. That one stinks.

Situation Awareness.

In one case where the wifey called 911 she was driving to the house. Our road is public and then private. After about 600 feet or so on the private part of the road, you can no longer turn around easily or quickly. The road bed is higher than grade and there is no way to go off road. At this point you are in a choke point that is easily blocked. The wifey came home one day and there was a car with two people in it sitting near the choke point. To get to the house she would have to drive past the two people, stop her car, get out and open the gate which makes her vulnerable. When she saw the people at the choke point she wisely did not go past them but turned around while she could, called me to ask for advise and called 911.

I bring these details up because when we first bought the land you could not drive up the road because it had been overgrown with trees. One day I was out a couple of hundred feet past the choke point clearing some land and more of the road. I had been working all day so I was hot, dirty, sweaty, stunk worse than a skunk and I am sure looked more than rough.

We and a neighbor had hired a septic engineer who was a woman. She paid a visit on this particular day to look at the neighbors land. She drove in, ignored me, drove past me and got out of her car. I had never met her but I knew who she was but she sure did not know me. What she did was very stupid. She ignored the dirty, smelly, crazy looking dude at the edge of the road. All I had to do was start the truck, move forward a few feet and she was not going anywhere. She really should have stopped her vehicle next to me, rolled down the window a bit and had a chat to check me out. She did not.

Of course I went over to talk to her which scared her witless.

Well Duh Lady. We had a pleasant chat about why she was there and I helped her find the field she was looking to study. But she really should have done things safer.

About the same time this happened, two older women living in house on the public road started to walk on our private road that I worked to open up. I was working in the same spot as described before and these two women walk right past me as I worked on the chainsaw on the tailgate of the truck. They walk right by me and did not even acknowledge my existence as they walk up my road.

This did not set me in the right frame of mind. I am a friend guy but don't ignore me and walk up on my land.

When they returned from their trespass walk I waited until the walked past me to see if they would ever say hey. They did not. So I did. Except I was not so friendly.

I bring this up because these two women were NOT thinking. At All. To be friendly they SHOULD have talked to me. In doing so they would have been able to figure out if I was a threat or not. They would also have learned that I OWNED the land they were walking on and we might have had a more pleasant conversation later on. As it was, what they did was rude and very risky. A bad man could have easily have blitzed both of them before they could have reacted. I had all sorts of dangerous tools within easy reach of tail gate. They were NOT thinking and had zero situational awareness.

Later,
Dan

jonyyuma · Mar 8, 2012

Dan, I have always wondered what kind of Faith it takes for two young women to come to a man's home as Jahovas witnesses and enter that home together? Of course I declined to let them in..But in a weak moment i took a pamplet...They still stick them in my door-way for years??--

celtsrevenge · Mar 8, 2012

James, greetings from K0GFY here in Colorado.

dmccarty · Mar 9, 2012

jonyyuma said:
Dan, I have always wondered what kind of Faith it takes for two young women to come to a man's home as Jahovas witnesses and enter that home together? Of course I declined to let them in..But in a weak moment i took a pamplet...They still stick them in my door-way for years??--

Yeppers. I made that mistake years ago when I opened the door to the Witnesses.

They kept returning like a stray dog that you feed. :laughing:

Thankfully it was at my parents home when I was still living at home. I moved out which kept the Witnesses from finding me. Not sure what my parents did. Oh Yeah, they moved too.

Later,
Dan

aczlan · Mar 9, 2012

dmccarty said:
Yeppers. I made that mistake years ago when I opened the door to the Witnesses.

I opened the door to them once on a Sunday afternoon. They did a double take, mumbled something, handed me some literature and went on their way.
I went inside, threw the pamphlet in the trash and mentioned their odd reaction to my wife. She said that it probably had something to do with my shirt. I looked down and realized that it said "Eat, Sleep, Be Mormon (Eating and Sleeping optional)" (it looked like this one).
They never came back in the next 2 years we were in that house.

Aaron Z

dmccarty · Mar 9, 2012

aczlan said:
I opened the door to them once on a Sunday afternoon. They did a double take, mumbled something, handed me some literature and went on their way.
I went inside, threw the pamphlet in the trash and mentioned their odd reaction to my wife. She said that it probably had something to do with my shirt. I looked down and realized that it said "Eat, Sleep, Be Mormon (Eating and Sleeping optional)" (it looked like this one).
They never came back in the next 2 years we were in that house.

Aaron Z

:laughing:

That was funny!

:laughing:

:laughing:

Later,
Dan

texasjohn · Oct 6, 2012

For those who remember, 758 posts ago, this is how it is ending.

Woman pleads guilty to 2011 slaying in Jarrell | www.statesman.com

Woman pleads guilty to 2011 slaying in Jarrell

By Claire Osborn

American-Statesman Staff

A woman has pleaded guilty in the death of an 18-year-old woman whose body was found November 2011 along a county road near Jarrell.

Tracie Marie Guzman, 21, pleaded guilty Sept. 25 to murder and to tampering with physical evidence, according to court documents. She is scheduled to be sentenced Oct. 12. Prosecutors have recommended that she be sentenced 25 years for murder and 20 years for tampering with physical evidence, according to court documents.

The body of Tynesia Brown, 18, was found off County Road 370 south of Jarrell on Nov. 14, 2011, according to an arrest warrant. Brown has gotten into a car with Guzman and Darius Davidson in Brown痴 neighborhood in Bedford a Dallas area suburb on Nov. 11, police said.

Guzman and Brown got into a physical altercation that day, the warrant said. When Davidson later stopped the car and went into a Jarrell convenience store, Guzman shot Brown inside the car, the arrest warrant said.