Dog vs. cat vs. cops

[DieselnHooters]

every pitbulls out there shoud serve 2 minutes in the penalty box

the penalty box being the tiger's cage at the zoo

lets see how they fare when the roles are reversed and its the cat thats 10 times larger than they are

 

[JDgreen227]

every pitbulls out there shoud serve 2 minutes in the penalty box

the penalty box being the tiger's cage at the zoo

lets see how they fare when the roles are reversed and its the cat thats 10 times larger than they are

Come on now, be fair...give the dogs a tree to climb once they get in the cage.

 

[Bird]

I've got to ask, when you you were in law enforcement, when you let people off for speeding when you had them breaking the speed limit, how did you determine if you should let them go with just a warning? Was is the story they told? or was it you just feeling in a "giving" mood at the time?

:laughing::laughing:Which time? There were quite a few over the years. I guess you could say it was the story they told. Perhaps the best story, and I had it happen more than once, was a guy driving like a bat outa you know where with his wife in labor in the car and neither I nor the pappa to be were anxious to deliver the baby ourselves.:laughing: In my day, we would turn on the red lights and siren and escort them to the hospital. But back then ambulance service was provided by funeral homes and they only loaded and hauled people. Any first aid at the scene was left to the police. But before I retired, rules changed. Instead of providing an emergency escort, the officers have to simply advise the expectant father to continue without breaking any traffic laws, or the officer can call a fire department ambulance to the scene.

Also, in my time, supervisors; i.e., sergeants and up, did not carry citation books. Citations are all numbered and each must be accounted for. Supervisors could call on the radio for an officer to bring them a citation, but that was not frequently done. Supervisors usually just gave violators a warning and let them go, unless it was a really flagrant violation. Of course I did make an exception once when I was lieutenant and stopped a young man who hit a 20 mph school zone at 60 mph when school children and a crossing guard were waiting to cross the road. I turned on my siren before we got to the school zone so the crossing guard held up the children. And that evening I did wait on an officer to bring me a citation to issue to that young man. He was hurrying to get home because he was expecting a phone call from his girlfriend.

 

[Sigarms]

every pitbulls out there shoud serve 2 minutes in the penalty box

the penalty box being the tiger's cage at the zoo

lets see how they fare when the roles are reversed and its the cat thats 10 times larger than they are

Funny, my cats seem kind of big to the mice they bring in. Should we throw the house cats in with the tigers as well?

Gosh darn it, why not the GSH's or the Dobermans as well? Heck, my one jack doesn't get along with woodchucks very well, how about her as well?

No offense, but you when cast a large net and say "every", it shows your intelligence.

 

[Sigarms]

OP here, I said "Bull Roar', not hogwash. And she fired ONE shot and killed the menacing dog. It's not like she was spraying a clip all over the neighborhood. Total over reaction by the cops, IMO. I live next door to a city policeman and he agrees with me 100%.

I'm guessing the cops were just covering their butt. Better to write the person up and have the DA's office look like the hero than not to write them up and perhaps get crucified for not doing so.

 

[RoyJackson]

Picky, picky, picky.....!!!! :laughing:

Since it was a wheelgun, can we agree on "cylinder"....?

Actually, we gun enthusiasts are a bit picky when it comes to "magazine" versus "Clip".

As far as the revolver having a cylinder...yep, we agree.

 

[JB4310]

Hope I don't have to start a thread "Contractor vs Dog vs Burly Tattooed Woman" today.

I've got a job to do this afternoon for a woman who has a giant Bullmastiff, she claims he is friendly, but the way he was pulling on his chain, looked like he would break his collar, trying to get at me, when I looked at the job last night.

Of course for me to even be able to start the thread, I would have to win against the dog, who looked like he could eat half of me before he felt full.
Then, even if I defeated the dog I would have face the woman, who looked like she could bench press me

Every home I've ever been in people say their dogs don't bite, sometimes even while the dog has their teeth in my leg
Mostly the little dogs that "surprise" the owners by sampling my pant leg.
No one has ever said I have a bad dog.

JB

 

[Car Doc]

One thing for sure there has never as far as I know been an instance where a domestic house cat has attacked and killed or mauled someone or a dog and had to have someone come and shoot it to save the person or dog.

Or someone that contracts jobs like JB and goes from place to place wondering if he will get this or that job done w/o getting chewed up with that cat looking at him in the yard! :laughing: Now the tattooed woman that scares me too!

 

[JDgreen227]

One thing for sure there has never as far as I know been an instance where a domestic house cat has attacked and killed or mauled someone or a dog and had to have someone come and shoot it to save the person or dog.

Or someone that contracts jobs like JB and goes from place to place wondering if he will get this or that job done w/o getting chewed up with that cat looking at him in the yard! :laughing: Now the tattooed woman that scares me too!

Well stated.....

 

[Iplayfarmer]

As I see it in the original situation the law worked just as it should have. Just because the lady was charged doesn't mean she was convicted. LEO's should have some discretion, but shouldn't have to act as judge and jury. The lady was charged because she did break the law. The DA didn't prosecute, and the lady probably didn't even have to pay court costs. In a different situation under different circumstances, there may have been a case to prosecute. This is obviously a controversial issue as demonstrated by the amount of discussion on this thread. It requires more consideration than is likely in the heat of the moment. I don't think the LEO should have to make that decision everytime. For all we know the LEO approached the DA and told him/her that the lady ought to get off scott free.

I don't agree with everything Sigarms has said, but I enthusiastically agree with him that if you don't like the law, get it changed. This is especially true for City Ordinances. On a small scale like that, an individual with a voice should be able to make sensible change. Perhaps a law like Bird quoted that specifically calls out the right to protect life and property could be adopted.

 

[Sigarms]

As I see it in the original situation the law worked just as it should have. Just because the lady was charged doesn't mean she was convicted. LEO's should have some discretion, but shouldn't have to act as judge and jury. The lady was charged because she did break the law.

I agree 100%

Perhaps a law like Bird quoted that specifically calls out the right to protect life and property could be adopted.

I believe many city ordinances have sections for allowances such as this.

Since I'm not a lawyer, and I could be wrong, but I believe the law is supposed to be detached from emotional responses for good reason.

but the way he was pulling on his chain

It is a known behavioral fact that dogs kept on chains are prone to a higher chance of aggression issues. To add fuel to the fire, if the dog was on a chain and not on a lead, and you're on the property with both the woman and dog, I'd be worried myself.

 

[Car Doc]

For all we know the LEO approached the DA and told him/her that the lady ought to get off scott free.

Perhaps a law like Bird quoted that specifically calls out the right to protect life and property could be adopted.

1) That's very true he wrote the ticket to cover his rear and following department policy probably knowing full well it could be easily reversed by someone up the chain and he could add his thoughts as well.

2) That is exactly how Kansas law reads also its well written and makes perfect sense not distinguishing what type of property is or isn't covered you own it or claim it as yours you have the right to defend it.

 

[bcp]

Reading Lansing's firearm's ordinance, I see no exception for police or self defense.
-----------------------------------

696.01. - Discharging weapons.

(a)No person shall fire or shoot any firearm, air gun, spring gun, bow and arrow, slingshot, crossbow or other dangerous weapon in any street or public place, or fire or shoot such a weapon in any place in a manner that would endanger, or be likely to endanger, any person or property, subject to the following exception(s):

A person who is an authorized participant in an approved recreational shooting program under the authority of the Lansing Police Department or Department of Parks and Recreation may use any of the following:

(1)Bows and arrows, and

(2)Crossbows.

(b)Recreational shooting program means a program that meets state or nationally recognized standards and is under the direct supervision of a certified range master who has successfully completed a nationally recognized training program.

(c)The Department of Parks and Recreation shall identify state or nationally recognized recreational shooting safety and program standards and shall promulgate or adopt rules for the safe and orderly administration of recreational shooting programs.

(Ord. No. 739, 12-22-86; Ord. No. 1133, ｧ 1, 4-21-08)

Municode - Search

 

[Bird]

Reading Lansing's firearm's ordinance, I see no exception for police or self defense.

At least that's the way it appears. Now I don't know anything about Michigan laws, but the exceptions may (or may not) be set forth in some state statute that overrides city ordinances. That sort of thing does happen. Or of course, there may (or may not) be some other city ordinance that states this ordinance does not apply in certain circumstances. It can get very complex and/or complicated at times.

Federal law can sometimes (but not always) supersede state law and state law can sometimes supersede city ordinances.:laughing:

 

[JDgreen227]

Woman who shot the pit bull was not "in any street or public place" and further, she did not "endanger any person or property" that was LEGALLY on her premises. The pit bull and the owner were not wanted on her property, the dog damaged her property (the cat) and therefore both dog and owner were ILLEGALLY trespassing and the homeowner was not in violation of any laws.

Just my biased opinion.

 

[JB4310]

One thing for sure there has never as far as I know been an instance where a domestic house cat has attacked and killed or mauled someone or a dog and had to have someone come and shoot it to save the person or dog.

Or someone that contracts jobs like JB and goes from place to place wondering if he will get this or that job done w/o getting chewed up with that cat looking at him in the yard! :laughing: Now the tattooed woman that scares me too!

I actually did have a cat try and attack me once, was at an old recluse's home and I had to go down the basement. I hear all this scratching on the basement door before I opened it. I ask the lady what it is and she tells me it's a "bad cat" and she never goes down there.

I laughed to myself, thinking what could a cat do? Well I opened the door just a crack and put my foot in to block the cat from getting out, the cat proceeded to clamp onto my boot and leg with claws and teeth.
I had to really shake that cat off, pulled my foot out and closed the door, left the house with out giving her a quote. I don't know what the storey was with that cat, if it was starving or rabid or what.

Went OK with the job today, but had a scare when I first got there. the kid opens the door when I rang the bell and the dog charges out the door right to me, with his back hair standing up, puts his open mouth right about my private area and lets out a big deep WOOF!!!
Scared the crap out of me, but after that he was OK.

JB.

 

[DieselnHooters]

No offense, but you when cast a large net and say "every", it shows your intelligence.

maybe someday I'll have a flash of genius and get myself an ugly timebomb

 

[Sigarms]

maybe someday I'll have a flash of genius and get myself an ugly timebomb

Don't worry, it took me a while myself.

Or of course, there may (or may not) be some other city ordinance that states this ordinance does not apply in certain circumstances. It can get very complex and/or complicated at times.

It appears that the city does fall back to the State per conceal carry . I'm surprised that they (Lansing) doesn't have anything related to discharging firearms to whatever castle doctrine laws the state has.

the dog damaged her property (the cat) and therefore both dog and owner were ILLEGALLY trespassing and the homeowner was not in violation of any laws.

Can a dog knowingly trespass? You did hit on something though...can property be killed by definition of the law? I don't know.

Or of course, there may (or may not) be some other city ordinance that states this ordinance does not apply in certain circumstances. It can get very complex and/or complicated at times.

I've always wondered how some cities seem to get by with breaking federal or their own state law when it comes to firearms. My line of thinking is how some cities seem to have much more tougher laws than the State when it comes to firearms.

 

[RoyJackson]

I've always wondered how some cities seem to get by with breaking federal or their own state law when it comes to firearms. My line of thinking is how some cities seem to have much more tougher laws than the State when it comes to firearms.

Philadelphia is one of those cities, but one aspect of PA law lets them get away with certain restrictions. The only restriction I know of is the requirement to have a concealled carry permit even if carrying opening (which is a PA Constitution right). This restriction is limited to "Cities of the First Class" (populations exceeding one million, I believe).
Philadelphia is the only city (in PA) that meets that criteria.

When carrying openly (I do, but rarely...although I carry concealled frequently), one can expect harrassment from some law enforcement...but there have been several lawsuits and the firearm carrier normally win the case. In Philly, the charge is normally "disorderly conduct" or something foolish like that...and the charges are normally dropped before prosecution....just harrassment. Getting your frearm back can be a daunting task though (which is why I'd never carry a high dollar firearm).

BTW, other then Philadelphia (or, "Filthydelphia" as we lovingly refer to it), carrying openly is quite legal with no permit...but the grey area is when one is carrying openly while driving a vehicle. No settled case law there...

 

[JDgreen227]

Two of my neighbors are policemen, one is an officer on the Michigan State University campus. Used to be that CCW was banned on campus, but when state law took precedent over MSU regulations, CCW became legal on parts of the campus. Needless to say, my neighbor and his fellow officers were very upset with the change, mainly because MSU has a reputation for being a "party school".