Dog vs. cat vs. cops

[dave1949]

... your attitude "left-wing guns are evil"

See..."gun culture"...that phrase defines your whole post. It also defines most of the anti-rights radicals.

Yep, Roy, I think you've answered logically, but you'll never convince an anti-gun enthusiast such as Dave, so there's no point in continuing to respond to him, if he's just going to start the name calling.

I take exception to that Bird. I was told all sorts of things about my attitude and political leanings before I said 'foaming at the mouth'. You apparently had no issue with those words from Roy.

Now you are labeling me as an 'anti-gun' enthusiast when that is not true, nor did I state that.

Dave.

 

[dave1949]

Then blame the hypocritical idiots in Hollywood for the glorification of violence and the misuse of weapons (not just firearms)...that's a start.

Anyway, this is getting political (close to it, at least).

Don't use words like left-wing, anti-rights and radical and it won't be political.

I do blame the Hollywooders, but ultimately they produce what people buy; so it isn't that simple. We have a culture that glorifies violence, so violence is what we get.

I also blame the NRA. Saying gun violence is not my fault and not my problem is the basic argument being made. I would hope for a more proactive stance from an organization that promotes gun ownership. It seems to me, the NRA just wants to wash their hands and walk away from however many gun victims there happen to be as if they have no role in it.

I just think they could do better than that. The NRA has enormous political influence they could use to begin to alter the gun=violence perceptions. Whatever success they might have benefits gun owners directly by removing some of the negativity many people hold towards guns.
Dave.

 

[aczlan]

When I use the term 'gun culture' I am referring to the glorification of weapons and violence that we are immersed in. That is what needs to change IMO and it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.
Dave.

I agree with thus, but I would call it the culture of violence rather than gun culture. As has been shown in many places who have banned guns, if legal guns are banned, the people of whom you speak will use bats, knives or (in some cases) will get illegal guns.
Thus, the "gun culture" is a symptom of a deeper problem, a culture which praises and glorifies violence.

Aaron Z

 

[Pixguy]

I agree with thus, but I would call it the culture of violence rather than gun culture. As has been shown in many places who have banned guns, if legal guns are banned, the people of whom you speak will use bats, knives or (in some cases) will get illegal guns.
Thus, the "gun culture" is a symptom of a deeper problem, a culture which praises and glorifies violence.

Aaron Z

Good post Aaron :thumbsup:

 

[dave1949]

I agree with thus, but I would call it the culture of violence rather than gun culture. As has been shown in many places who have banned guns, if legal guns are banned, the people of whom you speak will use bats, knives or (in some cases) will get illegal guns.
Thus, the "gun culture" is a symptom of a deeper problem, a culture which praises and glorifies violence.

Aaron Z

That is what I am trying to say, thank you. Guns are only one facet of that problem.
Dave.

 

[RoyJackson]

I also blame the NRA. Saying gun violence is not my fault and not my problem is the basic argument being made. I would hope for a more proactive stance from an organization that promotes gun ownership. It seems to me, the NRA just wants to wash their hands and walk away from however many gun victims there happen to be as if they have no role in it.

Dave.

Actually, the NRA had promoted a program called Project Exile several years back to aggressively enforce the laws against persons who used firearms illegally.
The program in Richmond, VA was probably the most successful implementation. When they approached (then) Mayor Rendell of Philadelphia, they were rebuffed (Rendell being a rabidly anti-rights politician).
The NRA also has many firearms safety programs, including one (called Eddie Eagle, I believe) directed toward young (school age) folks. These are successful if the cities allow them to be successful.
So, the NRA does promote responsible gun ownership and your post is not correct.

The negativity toward firearms results from not laying the blame where it belongs (the perpetrator) as well as anti-rights zealots who stoke that negativity for political purposes.

 

[aczlan]

As I see it, the purposed solution to the problem of people illegally possessing/using guns for bad ends is to create new laws rather than fully enforcing the current ones.
Sounds like a typical government solution.

Aaron Z

 

[dave1949]

Actually, the NRA had promoted a program called Project Exile several years back to aggressively enforce the laws against persons who used firearms illegally.
The program in Richmond, VA was probably the most successful implementation. When they approached (then) Mayor Rendell of Philadelphia, they were rebuffed (Rendell being a rabidly anti-rights politician).
The NRA also has many firearms safety programs, including one (called Eddie Eagle, I believe) directed toward young (school age) folks. These are successful if the cities allow them to be successful.
So, the NRA does promote responsible gun ownership and your post is not correct.

The negativity toward firearms results from not laying the blame where it belongs (the perpetrator) as well as anti-rights zealots who stoke that negativity for political purposes.

Responsible gun ownership is certainly worthwhile, and teaching young kids about guns and how to be safe is too, but it's not what I am talking about.

How guns are enmeshed with violence in our culture is the point. Project Exile as you described it would be closer, but deals with consequences, not prevention.

These are the safety and proficiency programs offered by the NRA:
Education & Training

The negativity is easy to explain, just look at the daily body count. What do you expect? People are going to associate guns with violence and death, why wouldn't they?
Dave.

 

[dave1949]

As I see it, the purposed solution to the problem of people illegally possessing/using guns for bad ends is to create new laws rather than fully enforcing the current ones.
Sounds like a typical government solution.

Aaron Z

I don't see a law-based solution. Basically, it means promoting a kinder and gentler society - a tall order, but that doesn't mean efforts would be useless.
Dave.

 

[aczlan]

I don't see a law-based solution. Basically, it means promoting a kinder and gentler society - a tall order, but that doesn't mean efforts would be useless.
Dave.

I see the problem as twofold:
1. The symptom of people using guns to commit crimes- This should be countered by enforcing the current gun laws (not creating new ones as a knee-jerk-reaction to something that could have been prevented if the existing laws were followed).
2. The root cause which is people acting out their violent tendencies rather than working their differences out peaceably - This is the more difficult problem. As I see it, the only sure way to fix it is to start in the home and work out from there.

Aaron Z