Working rail roads and their tracks.

[MossRoad]

Went out US33 between Goshen and Elkhart today, and there was a container train setting parked in the west side track. I measured it on my odometer and it was a shade over 2 1/2 miles long. Went to Meijers for a couple of things and when I left, the shortest way home was to cross the tracks, so of course just as I got to the crossing the gates went down and that same train came through. I counted 173 cars with either one or two containers on them. That's a lot of freight.

Yep. One of our kids used to run cross country at Oxbow Park.

We learned to cross over the tracks as soon as we got off of 20 heading south and saw an open crossing, pretty much regardless of how far we were still from the park.

 

[ArlyA]

For this Quincy Mining Monday, we see what was coming out of the mine. Although Quincy made most of its profits from copper ore (small bits of copper encased in rock), large chunks of pure metallic copper were a common occurrence underground. Because of copper's malleable nature, massive finds were nearly impossible to blast apart or cut up. Thus, they would be left underground. Pieces of a more manageable size could easily be blasted from the surrounding rock, hoisted to the surface, then transported directly to the smelter to be melted and cast for shipping. Quincy Mine, Hancock MI
Image courtesy Historic American Engineering Record (special note, the mines lost money getting flow copper out and started to simply mine around them.

 

[Hay Dude]

Simply amazing the garbage coming from that state and then unfortunately a few other states trip all over themselves trying to copy the same garbage and shove it down peoples throats.

From what I see, hauling coal by rail appears to be a large chunk of the American & Canadian Railroads profits.
What’s going to happen to the railroads when coal is legislated out of existence as a fuel source in the US and Canada?

How will the railroads survive the loss of revenue of hauling billions of tons of coal?

I like all the railroad nostalgia posted here, but it seems like we’re whistling past the graveyard on this????

 

[ultrarunner]

From what I see, hauling coal by rail appears to be a large chunk of the American & Canadian Railroads profits.
What’s going to happen to the railroads when coal is legislated out of existence as a fuel source in the US and Canada?

How will the railroads survive the loss of revenue of hauling billions of tons of coal?

I like all the railroad nostalgia posted here, but it seems like we’re whistling past the graveyard on this????

The coal trains would go for miles in Washington State are no one

In the SF Bay Area some have yard signs saying NO COAL trains… the signs are because of a concerted effort to not export any coal from a California port.

 

[bcp]

How will the railroads survive the loss of revenue of hauling billions of tons of coal?

They can haul wind for the windmills built in calm areas.



Bruce

 

[California]

How will the railroads survive the loss of revenue of hauling billions of tons of coal?

Why should we care? Nostalgia?

There will still be things to haul. 40 ft cans, automobiles, UPS trailers, general freight.

 

[MossRoad]

The drop in coal usage can largely be attributed to the rise in natural gas and to a much lesser extent wind and solar.

Coal still accounts for about 11% of rail profits.

Just to keep things on topic, here's a train with some JD tractors heading one way and a coal train heading the other in Goshen, IN.

 

[LouNY]

The drop in coal usage can largely be attributed to the rise in natural gas and to a much lesser extent wind and solar.

Coal still accounts for about 11% of rail profits.

Just to keep things on topic, here's a train with some JD tractors heading one way and a coal train heading the other in Goshen, IN.

"The drop in coal usage can largely be attributed to the rise in natural gas and to a much lesser extent wind and solar."

I'll have to disagree with this the drop in coal usage can be directly traced to bureaucratic over reach and the corresponding nightmarish over board unrealistic regulations.

 

[ultrarunner]

Keep Coal Out of Oakland: yard signs available now!

"Keep Coal Out of Oakland" yard signs began popping up across the city this week! You can support the continuing campaign to keep coal out of Oakland by putting a sign in your yard (or large window) -- we'll deliver, all you have to do is let us know where (your Oakland address w/ cross street...

nocoalinoakland.info

 

[Hay Dude]

The drop in coal usage can largely be attributed to the rise in natural gas and to a much lesser extent wind and solar.

We know why coal usage has declined-it’s been legislated out of existence.
That’s not my question. My question is, “how will the railroads survive the loss of revenues of hauling coal”
So wouldn’t the railroads do much better is they had both? Is the addition of NG with the elimination of coal something for railroads to feel good about? LOL
I don’t know about you but that sounds like “breaking even”.

Coal still accounts for about 11% of rail profits.

Just to keep things on topic, here's a train with some JD tractors heading one way and a coal train heading the other in Goshen, IN.

Why isn’t coal trains “on topic”

The topic is “rail roads and their tracks”

 

[Hay Dude]

Why should we care? Nostalgia?

There will still be things to haul. 40 ft cans, automobiles, UPS trailers, general freight.

Ummmm, gee I don’t know California…..
Maybe we should care because many rail road workers can lose their jobs?
Many rail lines that depend on coal could close?
Many hundreds of miles of track could fall into disrepair and the other businesses that depend on them could go bankrupt?
Do you know how many businesses directly & indirectly depend on the transportation of coal?
Do you have any clue what its’ like to lose a huge chunk of business like that?
Are you really that obtuse?
I don’t know…..

 

[Hay Dude]

I'll have to disagree with this the drop in coal usage can be directly traced to bureaucratic over reach and the corresponding nightmarish over board unrealistic regulations.

I like the reply “replaced by natural gas” when we all know that will be the next thing legislated out of existence before we start living in caves & burning wood again lol

 

[LouNY]

I like the reply “replaced by natural gas” when we all know that will be the next thing legislated out of existence before we start living in caves & burning wood again lol

Big government loves natural gas and electricity, they control it period no if's an' or but's.
They can turn it off any time they wish to. Oil, coal, wood and propane are a bit harder to take control off all at once.

 

[MossRoad]

I'll have to disagree with this the drop in coal usage can be directly traced to bureaucratic over reach and the corresponding nightmarish over board unrealistic regulations.

Nope. It can be blamed mostly on the rise of natural gas usage. Coal is expensive to mine, transport, burn, and clean up. Natural gas is much less expensive to extract, transport, burn, clean up, and doesn't cause nearly as much damage/wear to power plants.

Pure and simple, natural gas is much less expensive than coal as a source for electricity generation.

 

[MossRoad]

I'll just throw this out there....

Well if you read my other post (#46) I said Nukes and gas were the answer, not coal.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'll just throw this out there....

Again, that has nothing to do with my question and nothing to do with my personal views on coal. I just want to know peoples thoughts on the huge loss of income for the railroad industry? You first insinuate I’m off topic. Well, its a thread about rail roads and their tracks. Surely anyone can understand that railroads will suffer tremendously when coal is no longer shipped.

Now it’s my view of coal as a future energy source?

Neither point you make has nothing to do with the point I make about rail roads losing money from coal being eliminated.

Nope. It can be blamed mostly on the rise of natural gas usage. Coal is expensive to mine, transport, burn, and clean up. Natural gas is much less expensive to extract, transport, burn, clean up, and doesn't cause nearly as much damage/wear to power plants.

Pure and simple, natural gas is much less expensive than coal as a source for electricity generation.

NG is being eliminated too. All fossil fuels are eventually being eliminated for solar and windmills.

 

[BravoXray]

From what I see, hauling coal by rail appears to be a large chunk of the American & Canadian Railroads profits.
What’s going to happen to the railroads when coal is legislated out of existence as a fuel source in the US and Canada?

How will the railroads survive the loss of revenue of hauling billions of tons of coal?

I like all the railroad nostalgia posted here, but it seems like we’re whistling past the graveyard on this????

Coal revenue for UP, NS and BNSF have already dropped considerably, and they have made up a lot of the volume by going after goods in other markets historically hauled on trucks and pilfering freight from other smaller railroads. Also, there will be a lot of foreign demand for coal for many years, as there will be for coal used to make coke for steel making.

 

[MossRoad]

I did not insinuate you were off topic. Heck, I go off topic all the time.

I thought the video of John Deere Tractors on a train being passed in the opposite direction by a coal train was about perfect for a railroad discussion on a tractor board and the topic of coal.

As for the demise of coal doing in railroads, there was a very similar situation with oil on trains. Trains used to transport virtually 100% of oil. Today, it's about 3%.

Most of the abandoned rail lines in the US are due to rail consolidation. Most were duplicate routes. No sense in maintaining them once the companies merge.

Trains are great at transporting bulk items long distances. They'll always be around for that. Their demise in cities and towns started long ago with the rise of the trucking industry when it comes to shipping non-bulk items.

 

[California]

Ummmm, gee I don’t know California…..
Maybe we should care because many rail road workers can lose their jobs?
Many rail lines that depend on coal could close?
Many hundreds of miles of track could fall into disrepair and the other businesses that depend on them could go bankrupt?
Do you know how many businesses directly & indirectly depend on the transportation of coal?
Do you have any clue what its’ like to lose a huge chunk of business like that?
Are you really that obtuse?
I don’t know…..

What's the difference if you substitute 'bailout for General Motors', for 'railroads'? What do you propose, to save the status quo?

What I've read supports what Moss said, coal is no longer the most economical fuel for generating energy so it's losing market share.

Look at this article on Buffet's long term view of his BNSF investment. He seems to think railroads will continue to do fine after the decline of coal unit trains.

Learning From Buffett About Investing In Railroads: The BNSF Case Study

Railroads are catching attention as logistics and transportation become key aspects of our economies. Read here to get an overview of Buffett's investment in BNSF.

seekingalpha.com

 

[Hay Dude]

Coal revenue for UP, NS and BNSF have already dropped considerably, and they have made up a lot of the volume by going after goods in other markets historically hauled on trucks and pilfering freight from other smaller railroads. Also, there will be a lot of foreign demand for coal for many years, as there will be for coal used to make coke for steel making.

Thats the kind of information I’m looking for. “Pilfering freight from smaller railroads” doesn’t sound too promising. I guess the rail lines going to the power plants themselves are toast, too.