Would like honest suggestions about tow vehicle issues

[flusher]

I have 165k on my '01 2500 Ram; no tranny problems. Heaviest I tow though, is a relatively light 7000lb 5th wheel. I like the Cummins; the powerband reminds me of driving the fire engines and water tenders at our fire station. I like the "feel" of the inline motor better.

I would like to have a newer Ford or Dodge for the newer interiors, features, and ride. But my truck is payed for, no payments... And my replacement would be $45,000++

In my case, and the OP's, I would seriously consider a gas engine if were to get a different pickup. Unless you are hauling heavy, and frequently, diesel does not make sense like it did for me in '01. Diesel was cheap(10 cents cheaper than regular in Sacramento area in '01), it was not as expensive of an option back then either. Now diesel runs 30-65 cents more per gallon, and is an uber-expensive option; even the used trucks reflect that.

.

That's the way I went 2 years ago when looking to replace my 2001 F150. After looking at used 3/4 ton diesels with less than 100K miles showing and getting a good case of sticker shock, I found a 2004 Isuzu NPR stakebed (8x14 ft Supreme bed) with the GMC 6.0L LQ4 V8 gasser with the Asin 4-speed auto tranny showing 49,500 miles. Curb weight is 7100 lb, GVWR is 12000 lb; GCWR is 18,000 lb--enough rating for me to carry my 4000lb parade tractors on the bed or tow up to 10Klb with nothing on the bed. Cost: $11K on eBay. So far I've put about 2200 miles on the NPR in about 24 months.

That LQ4 engine is a gas hog (12 mpg empty, 10 with a load on the bed). So for everyday driving, I traded that F150 for a 2009 Ford Focus showing 33,000 miles, 35 mpg combined (90% highway miles)Cost $13K.

 

[handirifle]

Well I thought about the 3/4 with a gasser, but when a 2010 Dmax gets better MPG, has more HP at the rear wheels than I have at the crank, and over twice the torque, AND gets better mpg (did I say better mpg?) than my 4.7L Tundra, then a diesel is the way to go. We want to start traveling more with the 5th wheel, and I want reliable power. I do NOT want to go up a 7% grade at 35-40 like I did this last trip. I could have gotten 45mph but at the risk of running the engine over 4500rpm. Not worth it. Would a newer gasser 1/2t do this better, most likely, but I doubt fuel mileage is any better.

I don't care about "flying" up the grade (or any hill), since the towing speed limit here is still 55, but I'd like to be able to do that without worrying about running up the hill in 2nd gear at 4K. Also I think about grades like the 10,000+ in the Rockies. I just do not want to have to worry about where we want to go. Overkill is OK.

For the record, my '06 Tundra DC gets a whopping 13 MPG combined. Nice huh! So most ANY truck is a step up. It has been a VERY reliable truck though.

What I want is a RELIABLE truck, that doesn't accelerate like a 1964 VW Beetle and will tow and stop any 10K trailer I put behind it, and still gets good mileage. I'm retired and do not drive into town (about 15 miles) every day. Usually 2-3 days a week or less in the truck. Most of the time we are driving the '05 Accord at 30 mpg, if we go in more often. I drive the truck when I need a truck.

I don't want a 3rd vehicle, insurance is a rip off as it is, not to mention CA's annual registration and semi annual smog fees.

As mentioned, the friends 2010 DMAX would be sweet. Yes I do want a plush interior, it's NOT a work truck, I want comfort and convenience. A NAV system would be a HUGE bonus, but can add that aftermarket.

I do not want a lifted truck. I had to lift my trailer 4" to make it sit level with the little Tundra. Don't want it any higher.

Flusher
Another friend has a late model year Ford F250 with the 6.2 gasser, and claims he gets 14-15, but I think he's running fairly high gears, like 373, which is OK with me, but the mileage isn't worth writing home about. Seems I read most diesels get that with a lot more power.

 

[handirifle]

I've got a buddy that bought new an older 12 valve Cummins new years ago...
He is an independent mechanic and has had excellent service out of it...
Clutch replaced and that is about it...
They are very reliable...
I have an 03 F350 with the 7.3 modded to 330 HP...
It will be the last diesel I ever buy in a personal daily driver truck...
It will pull anything that I need and it is paid for...
The advise given here is spot on...
The truck before my 03 was a 92 F250...
I don't trade often but I always felt you were better off getting more truck than you needed for the occasional towing duties...
My 350 is overkill but that is ok...

What did that involve and cost if you don't mind my asking?

 

[Fi-Q]

I was in the same situation 2 years ago, except i was shopping for a dually for my new 4000 lbs pin wirht toy hauler. Back then, it came down to a dmax ( lbz, mid 06 to mid 07) or a dodge mega ( specially for the mega cab). A 5.9 would have been prefered in the cummins , but it would have required a transmission upgrade for the 14 000 lbs rv.

Finally got a sweer deal on a 06 dmx dually, LBZ, 6 speed allison with 95 000 km. Been trouble free. Averaging 15 mpg local drivng. My wife got 19 mpg on a few long trip unloaded, I never did . The only thinh to consider with these years GM. Is to eventually do a transfer case pump rubbing issue before it hit 150 000 miles.

 

[handirifle]

I was in the same situation 2 years ago, except i was shopping for a dually for my new 4000 lbs pin wirht toy hauler. Back then, it came down to a dmax ( lbz, mid 06 to mid 07) or a dodge mega ( specially for the mega cab). A 5.9 would have been prefered in the cummins , but it would have required a transmission upgrade for the 14 000 lbs rv.

Finally got a sweer deal on a 06 dmx dually, LBZ, 6 speed allison with 95 000 km. Been trouble free. Averaging 15 mpg local drivng. My wife got 19 mpg on a few long trip unloaded, I never did . The only thinh to consider with these years GM. Is to eventually do a transfer case pump rubbing issue before it hit 150 000 miles.

What is a transfer case pump. Have had a number of 4wd's but never heard of that.

 

[Fi-Q]

It is a common issue for the 00-07 ( I think) GM transfer case. With mileage ( happen to my last dmax at 150000 miles, this is how I know), the oil pump in the t-case get some loose/backlash and start to rub on the casing ( wich is soft aluminum) . It eventually rub thru and the. The t case loose all of its oil, and then all the gear and bearing are over heating, pretty much self destroying the T case. And because of this issue, there is no used gm t-case to be found anywhere, and in canada, ir was 3000$ ( I got lucky and found a guy who jad one from a wreck truck in michingan for 750$). So for a few 100$ there is a retro-fit kit to prevent this few k$ possible issue. So id toure buying an older GM, and planned on keeping it, it s a good thing to think about this. If you go on the web or on youtube and search for gm pump rub, there is lots of info on it.

My dealer told me they never heard of this. Ya, right!!! And everybody within the online GM community seema to lnow about this.

Except this, I think the LBZ in the Dmax is a really good truck... I hope to keep mine for another 10 years... Let see how it goes.

 

[schmism]

What is a transfer case pump. Have had a number of 4wd's but never heard of that.

some transfercase designs share oil with the trans, but because of pasageways they lack sufficient oil movement to cool them so they integrate a pump into them to help move oil through them.

 

[timswi]

Do you really need the added expense of a diesel with a 5500# trailer? I pull a 7800# (dry) trailer with a 6.2 1500 4x4 GMC Denali and it pulls great...I'm a huge diesel fan, but the gassers are something else nowadays...

I have 3:42's and a 6 speed..Get 16 on average driving like an adult..14 with a heavy foot. Will do 18 empty on the interstate at 65mph...For the HP and performance, I really can't complain.

My last truck was a 6.2 GMC but not a Denali...not sure if your hitch would fit into a 6.5 bed which is what they had pre '13 on the extended cab..An 8' was available but that makes a tough multi-purpose vehicle.

So you know what I'm towing..32' BP TT as I was ready to head into the PA mountains from the RV dealer.

 

[handirifle]

Ok thanks for the pump info. Good thing to know ahead.

Timswi
the short answer is no, but the long answer might be i probably will in the future. If we start hauling like we want to, we will likely upgrade. The agrevating part to all this is we bought this trailer so the Toyota COULD haul it. We bought it to live in while we built our home, which we did for 7 months. Now we want to travel and lo the truck isnt up to it, and the last thing I want to do is be back in this situation again in a few years when we might want a nicer trailer.

 

[timswi]

Ok thanks for the pump info. Good thing to know ahead.

Timswi
the short answer is no, but the long answer might be i probably will in the future. If we start hauling like we want to, we will likely upgrade. The agrevating part to all this is we bought this trailer so the Toyota COULD haul it. We bought it to live in while we built our home, which we did for 7 months. Now we want to travel and lo the truck isnt up to it, and the last thing I want to do is be back in this situation again in a few years when we might want a nicer trailer.

You can pull an easy 11000# with a multitude of properly equipped gassers now..I wouldn't discount it completely.

 

[RobertN]

Mentioned before in other thread too. Remember, the diesel will get better mileage, but diesel is 40-60 cents a gallon more expensive. And, the new ones want the blue juice so that factors in too. "E" rated tires are more expensive too.

Most of our trips are Placerville to Bodega Bay, or Carmel; gasser would do that fine.

On the flip side, you say you want to go out more, and update to a 10,000 trailer. When we did our trip a couple years ago from Placerville to Corpus Christi Tx(~5000 miles round trip) the diesel was definitely the way to go...

Well I thought about the 3/4 with a gasser, but when a 2010 Dmax gets better MPG, has more HP at the rear wheels than I have at the crank, and over twice the torque, AND gets better mpg (did I say better mpg?) than my 4.7L Tundra, then a diesel is the way to go. We want to start traveling more with the 5th wheel, and I want reliable power.

 

[CJONE]

Just my take on this, I would have a hard time buying a new diesel unless I was towing 10k+ or towing all the time. I love diesels but the new emmissions crap is killing them. The info on the GM's is spot on, the trucks get decent mileage and ride good, stick with the years mentioned. The Ford's I would buy a new one in a heartbeat, the new engines have been holding up well. As for the 6.0 and 6.4 I would steer clear of these. I love my 7.3 and will not sell it unless I find one cleaner [doubtfull]. Don't have alot of experience with the new Dodges, we only have 2 around here and they have been doing good and they are worth a look in my opinion. CJ

 

[Beltzington]

Apparently buying a trailer to big for the intended tow vehicle isn't something unique to my family. I bought almost the exact same size trailer you have and almost killed myself trying to tow it with a Jeep Grand Cherokee, the GVWR math worked but in reality it was way to much trailer for the Jeep.

My answer to your question was a 2006 2500HD LTZ diesel, bought it used with low mileage for half what it cost new and could not be happier. Hooked to the trailer you have to remind yourself you are towing a large trailer and the tow-mode of the 6-speed tranny is awesome coming down steep grades, engine compression takes care of 80% of speed control with minimal braking. When towing, I believe fuel costs are a wash between diesel and gasoline as the diesel will get better mpg. Can't beat the torque either. Good luck with your purchase.

 

[handirifle]

Yea just to be clear, i have NO desire (nor the money to do so) to buy a NEW diesel. Went through that with gassers in the 70's on smog crap. I am not discounting the virtue of the new gas trucks and this has not been a quick decision either.
It has also been my personal experience that just because they say it can or the numbers add up, doesnt make it really work. My truck is rated to 6800 and this traier is about 5500 the way I tow it. Handling and pulling on rolling or flat is nice. Breaking could be a lot better. I have to rely more than I like on the trailers brakes, but thats what they're on there for.

It seems we have always towed "near the limit" and I am tired of feeling on the edge. I put less than 10k a year on my truck currently, so fuel cost is a wash. Diesel price varies from more than or equal to premium to the same or less than reg gas so who knows. But the power will always be there regardless.
eventually I want to sell off my old 16 hp Massey Furgesun tractor for a Kubota Bx and do my tractor work AND mowing all with diesel. Trying the KISS method.

 

[Turbys_1700]

What did that involve and cost if you don't mind my asking?

I bought my truck in 04 with 38K 1 owner miles on it...
I paid at the time NADA black book wholesale which was 30K...
I would assume that it is worth 12K-15K now but it is not for sale...
It is paid for with only 105K miles and suits me to a tee...

 

[handirifle]

Sorry, I meant the upgrade to the 330hp, not the truck.

 

[sacmarata]

With the 94, does it have overdrive? What kind of mileage do you get? I'm pretty sure the wife wouldn't go for one that old though, unfortunately. When did they stop production on the 12 valve?

I have 340,000 miles on my 94' 12 valve. With stock tires and topper I actually got 26mpg hand calculated. Now with no topper and 285s I get around 21mpg. I can stretch that a bit if I keep my foot out of it but maybe only 1 or 2 mpgs. I'm trying to give you real world numbers, so I'll just say an avg of 21 now.

When it comes to towing I can speak from a lot of experience. BUY A DIESEL! If youre a Powerstroke guy, a Duramax guy or a Cummins guy, I don't care. They each have their ups and downs (except for 12 valves cummins )

I currently own (that I tow with) a gas Chevy 1500 HD with 6.0 liter and 4L80E tranny. It's a 3/4 ton truck with 3,000lb payload and towing capacity of 10,000lb. It has "tow mode" which is a glorified way of letting the computer change the shift points and lockup on the torque converter. It's about 300hp and 360lb/ft torque. Sounds good right? NO! That truck couldn't tow it's way out of a wet paper bag! Sure, if I wanna burn up my tranny and break stuff it "COULD" haul my tractor on the hills of KY, but I know it's limits and it mostly hauls groceries, kids and lawn mowers.

I've also got the 94' 12valve Cummins. Stock HP is only about 160hp but FOR FREE you can get that up to about 360 at the crank. I advanced my timing 16*, got rid of the fuel plate, and put some 4,000rpm governer springs on it. Of course I beefed up the tranny and TC or it would just chew em up now. It's a beast! There is NO comparison to ANY gasser I've ever used and that includes the Ford V10.

Something to remember...AGAIN...get an upgraded valve body transmission. If you cant lock out at low speeds you will burn up almost any transmission. Theres a lot of misguided folks out there bad mouthing transmissions that were never designed to do what they did to em. If your tranny is not locked out and you are pushing high RPMs/torque your fluid will heat up quick fast and in a hurry. Nothing is gonna snap or "blow" at that moment usually, but what youve done is DRASTICALLY shorten the life of your TC and tranny. These kids do this, then 6 months later run down the road and the tranny starts acting up when theyre not even hauling something and they trash talk the tranny that they treated like a borrowed mule 6 months before. Of course it's gonna give out. You can't run 300 degree temps in a tranny...ANY tranny and expect it to last.

 

[sacmarata]

With the 94, does it have overdrive? What kind of mileage do you get? I'm pretty sure the wife wouldn't go for one that old though, unfortunately. When did they stop production on the 12 valve?

hahahaaa...I got on a rant and forgot to answer yer question. Yes the 94' has overdrive and they stopped production in early 98. If you can find a 12 valve 98' you have found the HOLY GRAIL of trucks!

Things to ask when 12 valve shopping:
What injectors
What fuel plate
what gov springs
what valve springs
has the KDP (killer dowel pin) been fixed
whats the timing set at

 

[CJONE]

hahahaaa...I got on a rant and forgot to answer yer question. Yes the 94' has overdrive and they stopped production in early 98. If you can find a 12 valve 98' you have found the HOLY GRAIL of trucks!

Things to ask when 12 valve shopping:
What injectors
What fuel plate
what gov springs
what valve springs
has the KDP (killer dowel pin) been fixed
whats the timing set at

I can't believe you guys would mod these diesels like that, I mean comon chips, injectors, turbos, transmissions. Uhhh oh uh yea I'll be quiet now!! I love the killer dowl pin comment, sad but true. I can get 18-19MPG out of my 7.3 if I keep it below about 72 mph at 80 it stays about 15 in the 4th chip POS. My gassers would struggle to get close, the 6.0 GM I HAD would struggle to get double digits. My next prodject is a 12v transplant into a superduty. There has been a few 6 leakers around here that are grenaded. Found a 06 but it was a dually and I don't need that. Most can be had under 4K. I think that would be the perfect truck other than the noise. CJ

 

[Peacock]

I can't believe you guys would mod these diesels like that, I mean comon chips, injectors, turbos, transmissions. Uhhh oh uh yea I'll be quiet now!! I love the killer dowl pin comment, sad but true. I can get 18-19MPG out of my 7.3 if I keep it below about 72 mph at 80 it stays about 15 in the 4th chip POS. My gassers would struggle to get close, the 6.0 GM I HAD would struggle to get double digits. My next prodject is a 12v transplant into a superduty. There has been a few 6 leakers around here that are grenaded. Found a 06 but it was a dually and I don't need that. Most can be had under 4K. I think that would be the perfect truck other than the noise. CJ

A VE pump 12v is fairly quiet. Even a p7100 is quieter than a 7.3 or a cold start 6.0.