Your last generator Maintenance Run

[grsthegreat]

i downloaded the quick start guide, and like you say its not very specific. talks about setting generator configuration from one of 14 possible. some basic schematics. not very informative. i see a generator run signal and a generator return signal path, and various wirings depending on generator configuration you set.. it differs from each of the 14 possible combinations.

my question is....how did you figure your is version 7 ?

 

[grsthegreat]

but the owners manual is quite long......and a bit confusing. there are so many settings that could be mis set.

the troubleshooting section talks about error message and error number. have any showed on screen?

 

[90cummins]

My primary generator is a Yanmar which needs two wires to operate.
Fuel & crank.
I’m using version 7 without connecting the preheat on the Yanmar.
The MEP-952b has preheat so to simplify I’m using 7 for (if & when I automate that one)
90cummins

 

[grsthegreat]

but the owners manual shows quite a few 2 wire start modes. its confusing. for instance type 10 is for 2 wire start, ans type14 is 2 wire start without generator monitoring. not sure how the yanmar generator should be configured.

 

[90cummins]

Some of the other version are pulse start requiring a momentary start/stop push button.
I will do a video when I get a chance and post on utube showing what I have & demonstrate what is going on.
Thanks for taking an interest!
90cummins

 

[3930dave]

PM coffee break.....

Schneider XW+ AGS Auto Generator Start Control

https://backwoodssolar.com/product_..._generator_start__ags__quickstart_guide_1.pdf

grs may be on to something.... Type 14 doesn't use Generator Run Signal/Return <<<< need to understand what the system timing needs are for that line - if it's not getting the handshake it needs back from the generator, then it will drop the Run line in Type 7 <<<< Just A Guess on my Part though.....

Type 14 looks the simplest, but sounds like it would need the generator to figure out Crank vs. Run on its own..... again, Just Guessing.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Patrick Herd]

Sounds like I'm going to be putting my control systems hat on for this one, will let my morning coffee take effect and get reading. I have a hunch already but won't speculate until I've read more of the manual.

 

[grsthegreat]

backwoodssolar is a heck of a knowledgeable company. they have been doing off grid system for longer than i can remember.

 

[Patrick Herd]

OK I've emerged from the rabbit hole
To make sure we're talking about the same things, I'll add a lot of screen shots: From my understanding 90, you have type 7 configured with a RUN and a START wire connected.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sound like the AGS will start the gen momentarily but then shuts off?
To me this sounds like the AGS is not getting an "I'm running" signal back from the prime mover or the alternator.
Fastest way that comes to mind to verify this is change "Gen Run signal hold time" to say ten seconds for now, if the motor then runs for ten seconds we're on to the right track.

Now if that's the case, does your Yanmar have some kind of RUNNING signal output? Edit: the manual says you can use an hour meter feed for the RUNNING detection. If not, I'd be tempted to use the oil pressure sensor through a relay to invert the signal.

Happy to keep providing input

 

[90cummins]

Patrick you are correct the Yanmar needs a run (fuel) wire and (start) crank wire.
It starts then shuts down.
It has an oil pressure switch that is not yet wired into the system.
I will dig into it again on
Monday.
Thanks for the input!!
90cummins

 

[90cummins]

To protect the AGS I have installed 28v relays protected by 5 amp fuses to handle the fuel, crank and pre-heat if used.

 

[Patrick Herd]

Sounds good, happy to spend some time on the phone if useful.

 

[90cummins]

Great I may take you up on your offer!!
90cummins

 

[3930dave]

That's a kind offer Patrick.... one of you will likely be up really early/late.... reminds me of daze past in the lab.....

A generic, but relevant question..... for the Generator Run Signal, logic-high is _____ volts ? (12, 5, 3.3 or___ ?).

Rgds, D.

 

[90cummins]

For test purposes When in auto I set the trigger to start at 24.5 volts and stop volts at 28 or 1 hour max run time.
In auto it would start the run sequence but immediately shut down.
Too hot outside to work so I’ll do some troubleshooting in the powerhouse.
90cummins

 

[3930dave]

For test purposes When in auto I set the trigger to start at 24.5 volts and stop volts at 28 or 1 hour max run time.
In auto it would start the run sequence but immediately shut down.
Too hot outside to work so I’ll do some troubleshooting in the powerhouse.
90cummins

Are there separate voltage-sense lines 90 ? (Just curious mostly.... I suspect your current (pun-intended) situation is more related to lack of "Run" signal....).

Rgds, D.

 

[90cummins]

I’ve tried type 14 which did not work. I reconfigured to type 7 and found that it works as it should if I put 28 volts to the gen sensing line #12 shortly after the engine starts to crank. The engine stays running and the alternator energizes after the 88 second time. The delay was installed for cold weather operation which gives the engine time to start & warm prior to being loaded by the generator.
When a shutdown is initiated the engine shuts down properly however the power to line 12 gen sensing line must be disconnected for the engine to be restarted.
What I have concluded is that we need to have a time delay that will put power to line 12 after the crank sequence is started but before it stops in order for it to function properly.
I installed an oil pressure switch that opens when oil pressure is present with the thought that it could control the power to line 12 utilizing relays but I'm beyond my abilities.
I posted a video on you tube under 90cummins in case the link does not work!
Thank you for your help.
90cummins

 

[Patrick Herd]

Cool this is really good progress! Does the generator have an hour meter? We can probably take a "running" feed from that if so.
If it doesn't, I'll draw you up a circuit diagram to use a relay from the oil pressure switch.

 

[Patrick Herd]

Ok this one won't go out of my head Napa have oil pressure switches with both normally open and normally closed contacts: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7011607 One of those controlling pin 12 should 100% do what you need without any relays or anything else.

 

[90cummins]

The oil pressure switch opens at 30psi. I purchased an hour meter but it is not yet installed.
Last night I purchased a 0 to 60 second timer for time tuning the crank time if necessary.
I also have more 12 & 24 volt relays if needed.
I think I see some light at the end of the tunnel
90cummins