I sure am glad that I asked for opinions. Even though I put a blade on I never thought of using it to push the log back, but if I had gotten into a tight spot it would have come to me. I had been using the legs to push the logs around in the yard. Haven't had much time to use it, only got about 6 trees out so far. Thanks again. happy new year.
Your opinion please?
- Thread starter Deerlope
- Start date
- Views: 4480
gordon
Veteran Member
Looks like a nice rig, get rid of the feet and get a butt plate installed and your gold. Take it slow, things can go to pieces in a hurry when your skiddin logs.
Yes those are a VERY nice set of chains!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Gordon
Yes those are a VERY nice set of chains!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Gordon
slowzuki
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,100
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada
- Tractor
- Kubota L5030 HSTC, MF 5455, Kubota M120, Allis Chalmers 7010
You should pay attention to the flow being put through the winch. The standard valve on the milemarkers has a small orifice that heats the fluid up when you try to flow more than a PS pump.
from www.pirate4x4.com some info on the winch performance clipped from posts:
I'm putting in a faster pump (11 gPM, 1800 psi) onto my 2 milemarkers (1 front, 1 rear). I'm scrapping the electric solenoids that come with the standard MM install, and putting in manual ones with larger port sizes.
There is a theory that says the electric solenoids are the restriction to more GPM flowing through the system.
I should know how this works in practice in a few weeks.
I'm not finished this project yet, but did some testing on Saturday.
I'm using a Cross Manufacturing oil pump, mouted to the gearbox on a dog clutch. It's rated to do 17.5 gpm at full whack (3600 rpm).
I plumbed it direct to the MM (no spool valve), and the return from the MM to an oil tank, and a pipe from the oil tank to the pump. 1/2 pipe all over except for the inlet pipe to the pump from the oil tank which was 3/4. Let her rip.
The winch I used was new, and just sitting on the ground with no cable. I measured it be couting revolutions. This was all dont with no load, so I'll check more accuratly when I can do this with a load on them.
Basically: with the pump rotating at 3000 prm (approx - no rev counter on my truck, so just going by ear) the MM was rotating in low gear at the same speed as a Ward 8274 (Yes, the fast one with the motor on top) with both winches running under no load.
With the MM in high gear, and the pump at about 900 rpm (tickover on the engine, 4th gear 1:1 ratio) the winch was spinning nearly too fast to count accuratly, but this time just faster than the 8274. I was afraid to rev up the engine.
Next Steps: Manufacture an oil resevoir for the truck, fit a manual spool value (have this now, 1/2" model, plan to fit it under the floor beside the gearbox and have the control levers come up through the floor beside the gear levers. I'll have 2 control levers, one for the front MM, one for the rear MM. I'll have a 3rd control lever for engaging / disengaging the dog clutch for the oil pump.
I'll do a performance test / comparison when I'm able to winch under load. I'm betting the MM will be faster under load than the 8274.
Oh yeah, we tested it beside a Superwinch Husky too. Bet it hands down.
Hi,
Well, just back from a weekend off roading. I can confirm that the MM winches dont blow up with lots of GPM put through!
I dont have a GPM meter on my system, do I dont know what I was putting through. But I know the pump is rated to do 17gpm at max rpm (3600 rpm). I think I ran it at 2500 rpm max speed all weekend. Guess that's about 10gpm or so.
And it was fast enough to keep up with a Bowmotor 1 equipped G10 on my buddies vehicle.
When I put it in high gear, the winch monkey had a tough job to keep the cable pulled away from the vehicle when spooling out under power (which you can do with a MM without generating heat). I did set my sytem to 1800 psi. I did'nt use the MM solenoids, I use a manual lever contolled set, 1/2" pipes everwhere, with a 1/2" spool valve. We had to use a 3/4" pipe from the 3 gallon tank to the pump. We tried 1/2" but it was caviatating.
However....
As the pump is on the gearbox, allowing me to pick the speeed I want to run the pump at, if I dipped the clutch I stopped winching, or if I wanted wheel assisted winching (I only needed to do this where the anchor point was not very solid) I had to run in 1st gear and the winch ran slower than ever! Disaster!
What was good was that the winch still ran the same speed wheather under full load or no load. Also, even after some tough pulls, the oil never heated up at all, and that's with no oil cooler in the circuit.
Over feeling: Very impressed. Like this a lot.
That was solution number 2. It worked ok, and had the advantage (over running the winch off the PS pump) that you could steer while winching. There'se pictures of it here :
http://www.ifwdc.com/tech/winchpump/winchpump.html
(I'ts not a dead serious page, but you'll get the idea).
anyway, the most you can run on a belt is about 2 or 3 hp. Yes, you can go cogged or multiple belts. You've to go a long way to push in enough HP into a serious pump.
Think about this. When winching with electric, a serious hard pull can run down a pair of yellow top optimas in what? 10 minutes? That laternater is taking the rest, and most folk upgrade to 100 amp + alternators for this. With a Hydo system, you have no "batteries". All 100%of the pulling force is generated from the engine. If the pull takes 10hp, then it's 10hp from your engine (lets not worry about effieciencies here). If the most power a Vbelt can carry is 3 hp, then 3hp is the max power from your winch.
as someone else has spotted, this pump can take up to 17 HP to push! That's at 3000 psi, and ive set the pressure releave valve on the spool valve set to 1800psi so I'll never take 17hp, but probably do take 10.
Just a Thought on that. I went with manual spool valve in the vehicle because this way I can control how much or little oil hits the winch by moving the lever more or less. This allows me to "feather" in the full flow, and to "feather" it back down to zero flow. This (I have been told) is much easier on seals that a full on full off system. I am sure it's easier on the vehicle and anchor point. e.g. if you winch 1/2 way up a steep hill, want to stop and start again, if it stops and starts suddenly, you can picture the "jolt" type forces running through everything.
Also, if you go pto pump on a diesel, and you have a manual spool valve (or cable, or hyraulic over hydraulic), then you have a 100% electric free system - works underwater
Even the compressor on my truck runs 100% of the time with no electic clutch at all. I use a manual pressure releave valve to stop the air resevoir and pump for exploding. (Also leave the system open to atmosphere to not load the engine until I want it, then I close the system and it builds pressure.). No electrics
I think you got the picture. I'd guess the 10.5 should cater for most stuff - you know what you need the best.
I've managed to stall out my winch for the first time ever a few weeks ago. all that happened was the release valve in the spool controls popped and once the load was off it winched away again. No worries. I am going to go up to 2000 psi and see what that gives me. I've heard (email only) of someone that's over 2200 psi and its not blown up yet.
If you are mainly on your own, no reason not to mount the spool valve outside by the winch, except then you cannot steer and winch
Merv.
Link
Have fun reading!
Ken
from www.pirate4x4.com some info on the winch performance clipped from posts:
I'm putting in a faster pump (11 gPM, 1800 psi) onto my 2 milemarkers (1 front, 1 rear). I'm scrapping the electric solenoids that come with the standard MM install, and putting in manual ones with larger port sizes.
There is a theory that says the electric solenoids are the restriction to more GPM flowing through the system.
I should know how this works in practice in a few weeks.
I'm not finished this project yet, but did some testing on Saturday.
I'm using a Cross Manufacturing oil pump, mouted to the gearbox on a dog clutch. It's rated to do 17.5 gpm at full whack (3600 rpm).
I plumbed it direct to the MM (no spool valve), and the return from the MM to an oil tank, and a pipe from the oil tank to the pump. 1/2 pipe all over except for the inlet pipe to the pump from the oil tank which was 3/4. Let her rip.
The winch I used was new, and just sitting on the ground with no cable. I measured it be couting revolutions. This was all dont with no load, so I'll check more accuratly when I can do this with a load on them.
Basically: with the pump rotating at 3000 prm (approx - no rev counter on my truck, so just going by ear) the MM was rotating in low gear at the same speed as a Ward 8274 (Yes, the fast one with the motor on top) with both winches running under no load.
With the MM in high gear, and the pump at about 900 rpm (tickover on the engine, 4th gear 1:1 ratio) the winch was spinning nearly too fast to count accuratly, but this time just faster than the 8274. I was afraid to rev up the engine.
Next Steps: Manufacture an oil resevoir for the truck, fit a manual spool value (have this now, 1/2" model, plan to fit it under the floor beside the gearbox and have the control levers come up through the floor beside the gear levers. I'll have 2 control levers, one for the front MM, one for the rear MM. I'll have a 3rd control lever for engaging / disengaging the dog clutch for the oil pump.
I'll do a performance test / comparison when I'm able to winch under load. I'm betting the MM will be faster under load than the 8274.
Oh yeah, we tested it beside a Superwinch Husky too. Bet it hands down.
Hi,
Well, just back from a weekend off roading. I can confirm that the MM winches dont blow up with lots of GPM put through!
I dont have a GPM meter on my system, do I dont know what I was putting through. But I know the pump is rated to do 17gpm at max rpm (3600 rpm). I think I ran it at 2500 rpm max speed all weekend. Guess that's about 10gpm or so.
And it was fast enough to keep up with a Bowmotor 1 equipped G10 on my buddies vehicle.
When I put it in high gear, the winch monkey had a tough job to keep the cable pulled away from the vehicle when spooling out under power (which you can do with a MM without generating heat). I did set my sytem to 1800 psi. I did'nt use the MM solenoids, I use a manual lever contolled set, 1/2" pipes everwhere, with a 1/2" spool valve. We had to use a 3/4" pipe from the 3 gallon tank to the pump. We tried 1/2" but it was caviatating.
However....
As the pump is on the gearbox, allowing me to pick the speeed I want to run the pump at, if I dipped the clutch I stopped winching, or if I wanted wheel assisted winching (I only needed to do this where the anchor point was not very solid) I had to run in 1st gear and the winch ran slower than ever! Disaster!
What was good was that the winch still ran the same speed wheather under full load or no load. Also, even after some tough pulls, the oil never heated up at all, and that's with no oil cooler in the circuit.
Over feeling: Very impressed. Like this a lot.
That was solution number 2. It worked ok, and had the advantage (over running the winch off the PS pump) that you could steer while winching. There'se pictures of it here :
http://www.ifwdc.com/tech/winchpump/winchpump.html
(I'ts not a dead serious page, but you'll get the idea).
anyway, the most you can run on a belt is about 2 or 3 hp. Yes, you can go cogged or multiple belts. You've to go a long way to push in enough HP into a serious pump.
Think about this. When winching with electric, a serious hard pull can run down a pair of yellow top optimas in what? 10 minutes? That laternater is taking the rest, and most folk upgrade to 100 amp + alternators for this. With a Hydo system, you have no "batteries". All 100%of the pulling force is generated from the engine. If the pull takes 10hp, then it's 10hp from your engine (lets not worry about effieciencies here). If the most power a Vbelt can carry is 3 hp, then 3hp is the max power from your winch.
as someone else has spotted, this pump can take up to 17 HP to push! That's at 3000 psi, and ive set the pressure releave valve on the spool valve set to 1800psi so I'll never take 17hp, but probably do take 10.
Just a Thought on that. I went with manual spool valve in the vehicle because this way I can control how much or little oil hits the winch by moving the lever more or less. This allows me to "feather" in the full flow, and to "feather" it back down to zero flow. This (I have been told) is much easier on seals that a full on full off system. I am sure it's easier on the vehicle and anchor point. e.g. if you winch 1/2 way up a steep hill, want to stop and start again, if it stops and starts suddenly, you can picture the "jolt" type forces running through everything.
Also, if you go pto pump on a diesel, and you have a manual spool valve (or cable, or hyraulic over hydraulic), then you have a 100% electric free system - works underwater
Even the compressor on my truck runs 100% of the time with no electic clutch at all. I use a manual pressure releave valve to stop the air resevoir and pump for exploding. (Also leave the system open to atmosphere to not load the engine until I want it, then I close the system and it builds pressure.). No electrics
I think you got the picture. I'd guess the 10.5 should cater for most stuff - you know what you need the best.
I've managed to stall out my winch for the first time ever a few weeks ago. all that happened was the release valve in the spool controls popped and once the load was off it winched away again. No worries. I am going to go up to 2000 psi and see what that gives me. I've heard (email only) of someone that's over 2200 psi and its not blown up yet.
If you are mainly on your own, no reason not to mount the spool valve outside by the winch, except then you cannot steer and winch
Merv.
Link
Have fun reading!
Ken
I did not use their(MM) elect valve. I use the remote on the tractor. At 650RPM's my pump produces 3.3GPM@2530 PSI. MM elect valve is rated at 3.5GPM@ 750RPM. Tractor pump can go up to 8.5GPM @ higher RPM. MM excedes expectations and I am a happy camper.
slowzuki
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,100
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada
- Tractor
- Kubota L5030 HSTC, MF 5455, Kubota M120, Allis Chalmers 7010
To bring this thread back, I am currently following in Deerlopes footsteps!
I picked up a single speed Warn Series 9 - 9000 lb industrial winch.
I have the hydraulic couplers and hoses made up now. I think I might mount the winch low with a pulley up top like the farmi winches. I had hoped to just mount it on the top of the snowblower but the steel isnt' as beefy as I hoped.
Ken
I picked up a single speed Warn Series 9 - 9000 lb industrial winch.
I have the hydraulic couplers and hoses made up now. I think I might mount the winch low with a pulley up top like the farmi winches. I had hoped to just mount it on the top of the snowblower but the steel isnt' as beefy as I hoped.
Ken
slowzuki
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,100
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada
- Tractor
- Kubota L5030 HSTC, MF 5455, Kubota M120, Allis Chalmers 7010
It came with 100 ft of 1/2" cable which would be a #$^@&^ to drag out so I may look for 150 ft of 3/8" to give more reach.
The winch had been used to load a trailer but the fellow never took more than 30 ft off the drum.
Ken
The winch had been used to load a trailer but the fellow never took more than 30 ft off the drum.
Ken
winchman
Bronze Member
Ken,
Please post pictures of your completed winch set-up. I'm very interested in your results. On the winch that you purchased, what keeps it from free spooling too fast when you are manually pulling the line out to the log?
winchman
Please post pictures of your completed winch set-up. I'm very interested in your results. On the winch that you purchased, what keeps it from free spooling too fast when you are manually pulling the line out to the log?
winchman
slowzuki
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,100
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada
- Tractor
- Kubota L5030 HSTC, MF 5455, Kubota M120, Allis Chalmers 7010
Winchman, I am looking at putting a level winder on it, basically a piece of flat spring steel that presses against the cable to keep the birdsnests to a minimum.
Deerlopes winch has been behaving very well I hear, better than his tractor.
Deerlopes winch has been behaving very well I hear, better than his tractor.