Grapple Grappling for answers on Grapples

[wedge40]

Denton is full of grapple vendors and Denton is not a large place! I gather that there was one that was the original fabricator in the area, which one I am not sure. Over a period of time several ex-employees went out on their own and started their own businesses. They are all very similar in price for the heavier units designed for skid steers and larger tractors. These units are in the approximately 7## lb range. Markham has larger units too but offers a 'lighter' unit for compacts, around 450 lbs. This is similar in design to the WR Long OBG-2, their open bottom grapples for compact tractors. One difference is the WR Long has two cylinders on their units over 48" wide (48" unit has one cylinder) while Markham offers one light weight unit I believe that is 60" and has one 30" wide top tine.
Given my loader capacity I will go with one of the smaller units by WR Long or Markham's smaller unit. I like the idea of the two independent tines on the WR Long's but don't know that it is worth the price difference.

Now if I can just settle on a electric over hydraulic valve for the remote.

Just to be fair Markham will make to order. I believe someone on here had them put two narrow top tines. Also Markham does have a 48". I have one. Haven't used it yet, but hope to soon. Still need hoses and fittings. I'll post photos when I do get it hooked up.

Wedge

 

[Samandothers]

Wedge let me know how you like your Markham once you get it up and running. Are you building your own 3rd function valve set up or getting a kit?
When I was talking with Melissa Markham I did not ask about other sizes of smaller units. When we were first talking I was inquiring about a 60" unit in the heavier grapple. When I asked about a smaller unit and she indicated they had a 60", could have been because we were talking about a similar size in the heavier unit and I did not pursue smaller sizes. I believe I will go with a 60" or so unit when I order from a vendor.
I may have to ask Melissa about adding the second tine. She is great to respond to questions and work with. I do like their prices too!
Thanks for the input!

 

[IslandTractor]

Given my loader capacity I will go with one of the smaller units by WR Long or Markham's smaller unit. I like the idea of the two independent tines on the WR Long's but don't know that it is worth the price difference.

Now if I can just settle on a electric over hydraulic valve for the remote.

I'd agree with your choice of grapple size. From my experience with a Millonzi 48 light duty grapple over the past three years, I'd also comment that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that I have not been able to pick up with my single upper jaw that might have been possible with a double jaw. The rationale for the double jaw grapple seems to be that it allow you to pick up asymmetrical objects as one jaw could close more tightly than the other. However, that is an entirely theoretical argument as best I can tell as I've never had trouble getting a good grip on asymmetric loads such as stumps etc. Almost any asymmetrical object likely to be moved with a grapple has symmetry if you just rotate it 90 degrees. For example, a fat stump with a skinny trunk is just picked up by approaching it from the stump side and allowing the trunk to stick out the front or the top of the grapple. No biggie. See photos. The advantages of single upper arm are obvious: less expensive and less weight. The only reason I could see using a double jawed grapple would be for construction debris where you would just drive into a big pile to clamp a bunch of trash. There the double would be helpful as it is wider.

Regarding electric over hydraulic vs rear remotes, that is a tough call that is probably dictated most by your pocketbook and amount you use the grapple. I have used rear remotes to control a grapple on my CK20 and I found it absolutely fine. The key is whether the rear remote lever is within easy, natural reach of your right hand when your hand is resting on the FEL joystick. If it is as natural as taking your hand off the steering wheel of your automobile to reach for the gearshift then rear remotes will be fine. I have a diverter valve (WRLong) on my DK40se which I frankly don't like as much but only for one reason. As the diverter is controlled by a button on top of the FEL joystick, it is obviously easy to reach, in fact a bit too easy. The difficulty I have even after a year is that I find myself, when working quickly, often releasing the diverter button just a bit sooner or holding it a bit longer than I should. If you release the button before allowing the joystick to return to neutral position you get unintended curl or dump of the grapple....not a disaster but inconvenient and confusing at times. It also means that sometimes I don't clamp as hard as I intended as I'll switch over to dump/curl before allowing the grapple to completely compress the load. This may sound confusing if you've not yet used a grapple but once you get comfortable with the grapple as an extension of your "hand", you do work pretty quickly and sharing one hydraulic circuit between grapple open/close and dump/curl is not ideal. Again, I don't hate the diverter valve and it has nothing at all to do with the WRLong kit but if I had to do it over I'd probably go with just the rear remote to start off and if I found myself using the grapple a lot then I'd install the electrohydraulic control. For occasional use the rear remote is clearly the choice in my mind but if you use the grapple a lot then consider the electrohydraulic. It is so cheap to set up the grapple control with a rear remote if you already have a set of remotes that I'd recommend doing that to begin with. You can reuse the hose and most of the fittings if you switch over to the electrohydraulic switch anyway so there is very little waste in setting up for the rear remote system.

 

[dknarnd]

Island has a good point with the rear remotes when he mentiones about the location. I set my grapple up using the rear remote and just as described when I drop my hand off of the joystick it falls onto the rear remote control just like driving a standard car. It is really pretty natural and for my use not a problem at all.

 

[wedge40]

Wedge let me know how you like your Markham once you get it up and running. Are you building your own 3rd function valve set up or getting a kit?
When I was talking with Melissa Markham I did not ask about other sizes of smaller units. When we were first talking I was inquiring about a 60" unit in the heavier grapple. When I asked about a smaller unit and she indicated they had a 60", could have been because we were talking about a similar size in the heavier unit and I did not pursue smaller sizes. I believe I will go with a 60" or so unit when I order from a vendor.
I may have to ask Melissa about adding the second tine. She is great to respond to questions and work with. I do like their prices too!
Thanks for the input!

Samandothers - I'll post once I have it up and running. Friday is my day off so I hope to get the hoses and fittings locally. I then have to change the mount system on the loader to Skid Steer QA. As far as hydraulics goes I have a 67' Ford 4000 with a Koyker loader on it. The tractor has a valve under the seat and Koyker sent a diverter plate so I could keep the valve, add the FEL and still use my 3pth. Bottom line is I already have an extra valve that I can use.
There was a nice thread on here about Markhams new light weight grapples, but it got removed for political reasons. That thread had info about the different things Markham was willing to do to make the customer happy. To name a few, extra tines on the bottom, tines with "teeth" instead of just smooth and two grapples instead of only one. I sort of jumped the gun when I bought mine and took what they were making in that phase of the design. The only thing I might have done different would have been to add teeth to the bottom tines.

Wedge

 

[Samandothers]

IslandTractor, Wedge, and Dknarnd thanks for the time to make the posts. The input is helpful. It is because of the help on this thread and the calling, talking, pricing that I have changed from a wide 72" heavy 770lb grapple to a smaller 56 to 60" unit weighing more like 450 to 500 lbs or so. I think the only thing remaining constant has been the desire for the open bottom more L or bucket shaped grapple vs the clam shell or root rake style.
As I will be working on land that is mostly wooded or areas that were clear years ago. I will/have quite a bit of use for a grapple and currently trying to use toothed bucket to move items takes too much finesse and many things I can't do. Rear remote controls if added on my tractor are back near your hip to the right at the fold of the seat. At this time I believe I will install a 3rd function on the front given the amount of use I beleive I will have. Besides that will give me a project down the road if I find I need/want rear remotes.

 

[Samandothers]

Well one commitment made. I let Melissa know at Markham Welding I'd purchase one of their 60" light duty grapples with a single top tine and added spacers in the bottom between the teeth. This will decrease the distance from 9" to 4.5". I thought about a second tine on top and decide not to. As stated in another thread regardless of which grapple you get you like the one you have. I decided to not go the extra money, failure point, and weight for the second hydraulic tine. It came down to the Markham or WR Long for light weight grapples. WR Long is a nice unit, however having to go through a dealer I was getting prices that were $500 to 600 apart and all greater than the Markham unit built with two top tines (WR Long had two top tines). Melissa is to call when the unit is ready. Now I must determine which 3rd Hydraulic valve for the loader, WR Long or Kubota. More to follow!

 

[BillBee]

I too am ready to pull the trigger on a grapple purchase and interested in Markham, but would also like to use the grapple for raking and removing surface roots. I question the flat bottom on Markham and perhaps WR Long RBGD 66 inch would be more suitable for raking.

 

[Happyman]

I too am ready to pull the trigger on a grapple purchase and interested in Markham, but would also like to use the grapple for raking and removing surface roots. I question the flat bottom on Markham and perhaps WR Long RBGD 66 inch would be more suitable for raking.

BillBee, I have the same issue. I like the broad flat bottom but think I'll need the WRLong "Root Rake Grapple" because I'm clearing land in the spring and a "real" root rake with the curved tines may suit my needs better for digging roots out while driving forward. It seems that moving trees and brush is still possible with the root rake. Are you thinking of one upper claw or two? I'm leaning toward 2.

 

[Samandothers]

I agree with you guys if the primary use is clearing and removing roots the rake design would be better and less strain on loader components than trying to use an open bottom design. I am not sure why the prices for the root rakes appear to be higher than the open bottoms for same width and number of tines. Must have more material in them. Good luck on the choice. Kinda glad the selection is behind me and ready to get the plumbing fixed and move some brush!