Busy Wife This Weekend

[jdmar]

You are building like I did mine 2 years ago. My own design with Superior wall basement they are dry!!!). I also used SIPS but traditional trussed roof with spray foam. I would go with SIPS again.

The SIPS are very stiff/strong, the house is very quiet, and very warm. We use only about 11 BTU/hr/square foot of heated space. Yes that includes my basement and garage...but they are both radiant floor heated...so I think it counts. The SIPs did add about 12K to the price but the payback is immediate. What I mean is that the slight increase that I spend per month on mortgage is more than covered by the decrease on heat and cooling each month. In fact in 2 years we have only turned AC on for about a total of 4-5 days...and then only one of the two small units. Some would say that the payback is 30 years for SIPS but I also look at my $ out per month...the SIPs lesson that total amount.

I have the garage and rooms over the garage as traditional framed with spray foam. I then have 1" polyfoam sheets with foil over those studs...then the drywall. This is NOT as warm as the SIP areas.--just for a comparison. When I retire and move to a small cabin (I hope) I may try ICFs with even higher r-value and greater thermal mass for solar.

I also have about 45 windows (crazy I know) but they are just Anderson 200 series. They are reasonable U/R value with reasonable cost. They are low-e and that helps a lot. When the sun shines the heat never turns on. I have become a big believer in modified building ideas to save energy and cost. We are not yet "there" as a nation but hopefully will be soon.

Sorry about the long post, but I think the SIPs and other technologies have a great benefit...and not just in energy efficiency. They are quiet, use less stick lumber and more OSB (rapid growth and renewable trees). By the way...I am not even a tree-hugging hippie!
Peter

 

[hobie]

Mike and Peter, It's great to read about your success with new technologies! Thanks, Brian

 

[JackMentink]

I know everybody is into the alternative building types and hightech insulation sytems, but most I've seen are not real cost effective and have very long paybacks.

When i built ournew house two years a go I went with 6" stud walls, r-19 blown in cellulose, r-48 blown in celulose in the ceiling, and anderson 200 series low-e windows (lots of them as my wife is a sunshine fanatic. I paid attention to the house wrap to get it sealed on the outside, and put my energies in the heating system.

I instaled a ground source heat pump with a open loop system that use my well that supplies water to the home to supply a geothermal source. ( I upsized the well pump to a 2 HP and put a variable speed drive on the pump).

I discharge the geothermal water into two 1500 gallon tanks that I use to irrigate my two acre lawn. The heat pump has a variable speed fan and four zones with four thermostats to keep the house perfectly temperate in all areas. The house is the most comfortable I have ever been in it cost less than conventional system as my electric cooperative gave me a 1700 rebate for the system.

The house is 4400 square feet finished with all of it heated and cooled to 73 year round.
It is about 2800 foot ranch over a full walk out basement. I live in Misouri and we have winter with lows of below 0 and summers over 100 for weeks.

The best part is the utility bills. The largest heating portion of the electric bill we have ever had was $45/month, with the largest summer cooling bill of $30/month.

Ground source heat pumps rock

 

[mike69440]

I know everybody is into the alternative building types and hightech insulation sytems, but most I've seen are not real cost effective and have very long paybacks.

When i built ournew house two years a go I went with 6" stud walls, r-19 blown in cellulose, r-48 blown in celulose in the ceiling, and anderson 200 series low-e windows (lots of them as my wife is a sunshine fanatic. I paid attention to the house wrap to get it sealed on the outside, and put my energies in the heating system.

I instaled a ground source heat pump with a open loop system that use my well that supplies water to the home to supply a geothermal source. ( I upsized the well pump to a 2 HP and put a variable speed drive on the pump).

I discharge the geothermal water into two 1500 gallon tanks that I use to irrigate my two acre lawn. The heat pump has a variable speed fan and four zones with four thermostats to keep the house perfectly temperate in all areas. The house is the most comfortable I have ever been in it cost less than conventional system as my electric cooperative gave me a 1700 rebate for the system.

The house is 4400 square feet finished with all of it heated and cooled to 73 year round.
It is about 2800 foot ranch over a full walk out basement. I live in Misouri and we have winter with lows of below 0 and summers over 100 for weeks.

The best part is the utility bills. The largest heating portion of the electric bill we have ever had was $45/month, with the largest summer cooling bill of $30/month.

Ground source heat pumps rock

I looked hard at geothermal. I would have use an open loop system. However I would have no place to dump the water in sub zero winter temperatures. This is a NH home.
labor is expensive here. Our co-op would give a max of a $5,000 rebate. The home size is similar.

My well can supply 40 gpm. I would have to drill another well for the return water. I would have to upgrade the pump. All told, this would runn $10,000.

The rest of the heating system would run another $35,000, so I can't make a case for a quick payback. Maybe I am short sighted, but I can't see where geothermal is cost effective give that kind of cost.

Not counting the attics over the gable ends, the house is 4400 ft with basement also.

I I may be bold enough to ask what it has cost others for geothermal?

 

[JackMentink]

I looked hard at geothermal. I would have use an open loop system. However I would have no place to dump the water in sub zero winter temperatures. This is a NH home.
labor is expensive here. Our co-op would give a max of a $5,000 rebate. The home size is similar.

My well can supply 40 gpm. I would have to drill another well for the return water. I would have to upgrade the pump. All told, this would runn $10,000.

The rest of the heating system would run another $35,000, so I can't make a case for a quick payback. Maybe I am short sighted, but I can't see where geothermal is cost effective give that kind of cost.

Not counting the attics over the gable ends, the house is 4400 ft with basement also.

I I may be bold enough to ask what it has cost others for geothermal?

My total cost of the equipment and labor for a 6 ton/3ton system with all the ductwork and piping connections for my new house was $16,500. The extra cost to install the bigger well pump and variable frequency drive over a regular well and pump was about a $2000 up charge. If you take off the 1700 rebate you have a total cost of 16,800.

For me same cost as a convention high effeciency gas and a/c.

It was a 0 year payback. I estimate the difference in energy costs by my system over a conventional is about $2500 - $3000 per year.

 

[mike69440]

My total cost of the equipment and labor for a 6 ton/3ton system with all the ductwork and piping connections for my new house was $16,500. The extra cost to install the bigger well pump and variable frequency drive over a regular well and pump was about a $2000 up charge. If you take off the 1700 rebate you have a total cost of 16,800.

For me same cost as a convention high effeciency gas and a/c.

It was a 0 year payback. I estimate the difference in energy costs by my system over a conventional is about $2500 - $3000 per year.

I guess New Hampshire labor rates are a lot higher. I am also doing radiant in floor heat.

The killer cost is sinking another well and our high electric rates.

I have also looked into co generation and solar. The payback is not there for me.

I'll heat with wood as long as I am physically able.

 

[mffarmall]

I love it when my wife helps me outside. Most of the time I call her mall chick. If you don't get them mad sometimes there is no making up.

 

[LarryRB]

Mike
is that a Ted Benson design/built SIPS or someone else nearby?

 

[dirtydan]

I I may be bold enough to ask what it has cost others for geothermal?[/QUOTE]

We have 3.5 ton closed loop vertical system. We have a 2400 sq. ft. home. It was installed about 4 years ago. This was new constuction. We have blown in cellulose in the walls and ceiling. The cost was approx. $13,000. This included ductwork and everything, all I had to do was flip the switch and turn it on. So far I have not had a heat bill over $40 a month. It also provides the lion's share of our hot water. We keep our temp set at 72 degrees 24/7 365 days a year. House is always comfortable. Had some days over 100 degrees and it worked perfectly, house stayed very cool. Average cost to run year round is about a dollar a day.

Dan

 

[mike69440]

Mike
is that a Ted Benson design/built SIPS or someone else nearby?

Nope.

I'm a mechanical engineer and have been acting as GC. I did the plans and most of the structural stuff myself. I've been using a construction management firm "Building Alternatives"
Home Builder of Log, Timberframe, Modular, Cedar, SIPS construction in NH, MA, MW, VT
to guide me thru the energy efficient home thing and purchased the SIP panels through them. I also used their recommented contractor to erect the house part of the shell.

Winter Panel
Announcing Structural Insulated Panels for Construction: Winter Panel
was the SIP supplier. "Building Alternatives" shopped 5-6 different SIP suppliers they deal with and recommended Winter Panel as the best value for my project.
I sent Winter Panel my plans, some of which they just copied over to their official blueprints. They verified and tweaked the roof structure, and laid out the panel details. We went thru several cycles of minor changes priopr to final approval before they cut the panels.

I figure the framing with SIPS and timber frame Hybrid construction cost 60-70% more than a stick built shell, but you dont get the insulation or the timber fame look with stick, unless you add it later. The framing is a small part of the total home cost. Heck, I spent much more blasting and hauling out darn NH rock.

That being said, I'd do things a little different, but not much.
Some changes I'd consder would be to stick build and foam in the walls and just use SIP panels in the roof. I suspect that may cost a bit less and gets near the same results. Another thing is I'd consider real wood beams in roof vs. covered LVL. With the price of lumber dropping, that might have been more cost effective and more authentic looking.
I did use real beams in the first floor ceiling and 2 x 6 red pine flooring on second floor.

I'll probably prewire and plumb for solar, but am getting sour on the cost of all this "green" technology. I'm nicely warming my buns right now next to my wood burner in my current drafty log home. I've burned less than a tank of oil for lazy man heat and hot water since August. Wood will be the main heat source in our new home also.