New guys take on pros & cons of 45 HP range of CUT's

[MessickFarmEqu]

Just my opinion, but I think the 3030 is too light for serious backhoe/loader work.

With a Kubota BH75.. probably, but with a Woods 80X... I think you would be surprised.

 

[Ken45101]

When it comes to digging and ground engagement chores, weight is king. Doing such tasks a heavier tractor will out perform a lighter one (all other things the same). A backhoe will toss around a light tractor.

That's why it is important to match implements to the tractor. Yes, putting a big BH on a little tractor is a waste. OTOH, my little B21 TLB rarely gets drug around but then it is a matched machine.

Ken

 

[IslandTractor]

Why should he buy a less capable digger if he can afford better? .

If the tractor will be used 90% of the time for snow blowing and mowing is one reason. Again, no argument that a heavier TLB is more efficient at digging but if digging tasks are not the main focus why outsize the tractor for that one purpose.

If someone has money to burn on an outsized tractor then consider the alternative to hire a construction company to do the one time main digging tasks (foundation, huge rocks and stumps etc) and use something like a B3030 Cab (with BH eg Woods x70 or ?x80) as a very efficient mower (6ft MMM or flail) and snow removal device (6ft rear or ?front blower) with a perfectly capable BH for projects around the house and landscaping. Why have a 50hp tractor with 9ft BH for the next 20years just because you needed the extra umph on one or two projects in the first year? And, if money is relevant to the equation, you could get the B3030 with flail, snowblower and BH for quite a bit less money than a 50hp cab with mower, snow blade and BH. I'd sure prefer a front mounted blower that I would use every year than the extra horsepower and digging depth I'd use only in the beginning.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Speaking as someone with extensive use using a b3030 with a bh80x, its a great combo. I actually don't think a 45hp CUT with a foot longer backhoe would be noticeably better. Which is why I jumped to the m59, though I'd been thinking about the 4740.

Biggest downside of the b3030 is stability - I'm one of those who doesn't think its great for hilly country. Kind of overpowered and high COG, which the cab would make worse. Weighting the tires helps.

But getting a small L with a cab and a woods, and hiring out the other stuff would make a lot of sense. For me, once again, the perfect combo would be a bx and the m59.

Size the equipment to the tasks, not the land, as someone said above. I'm turning forest into landscape, so the m59 is perfect. If I were maintaing established landscape, I'd probably get a bx25 or some such.

 

[Gittyup]

If the tractor will be used 90% of the time for snow blowing and mowing is one reason. Again, no argument that a heavier TLB is more efficient at digging but if digging tasks are not the main focus why outsize the tractor for that one purpose.

If someone has money to burn on an outsized tractor then consider the alternative to hire a construction company to do the one time main digging tasks (foundation, huge rocks and stumps etc) and use something like a B3030 Cab (with BH eg Woods x70 or ?x80) as a very efficient mower (6ft MMM or flail) and snow removal device (6ft rear or ?front blower) with a perfectly capable BH for projects around the house and landscaping. Why have a 50hp tractor with 9ft BH for the next 20years just because you needed the extra umph on one or two projects in the first year? And, if money is relevant to the equation, you could get the B3030 with flail, snowblower and BH for quite a bit less money than a 50hp cab with mower, snow blade and BH. I'd sure prefer a front mounted blower that I would use every year than the extra horsepower and digging depth I'd use only in the beginning.

Don't disagree. Just depends on how much and what type of digging has to be done. It was my understanding that the OP had a lot of digging to do.

The 3030 is high and narrow, and that always bothered me about it too. While I've only played with one at the dealer, it would take some convincing that it would perform like a tractor weighing 50% more (some 45 HP brands/models closer to twice its weight). I could even tell a noticable difference between the 3030 and my CK25 with respect to staying put while digging. Of course, my CK25 has loaded tires, weighing about 5500 lbs, compared to something like 4000 lbs for the 3030 (unloaded tires, no cab). The backhoe really pushed the 3030 around, easily lifting it off the ground and dragging it about. I would perfer to see more of that power put into the soil, which happens with a heavier tractor - simple physics.

 

[Gittyup]

That's why it is important to match implements to the tractor. Yes, putting a big BH on a little tractor is a waste. OTOH, my little B21 TLB rarely gets drug around but then it is a matched machine.

Ken

The B21 and other dedicated TLB's are not the same thing. Not a fair comparison to a CUT. These type machines will yield better performance per hp/weight due to design. Among the differences, the Backhoe is about 2 feet closer to the rear wheels, which gives it better footing and reduces the moment arm on the frame. Even so, in like fashion, the B21 won't perform like the L39.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I don't think the tractor is too big. I think the land is too small.

Seriously 45Hp for 6.5 acres is ridiculous. I drive a semi but I would not use it to get a load of groceries even if the whole extended family were coming to dinner.

Weight is good for ground engagement and digging, sure. But how many trenches are you going to dig, maybe 2 or 3 or even 4. how many foundations are you going to dig, one or none? How much ground are you going to plow for crops. For that matter, how many hours are you going to be in the seat?

Get what you want but I agree with 2 points. Analysis paralysis and too much tractor for the need. But this is America, get what you want and what your pocketbook can stand.

 

[WilliamBos]

To the OP,

Is more land in yout future? And having a cab, and blowing snow is the only way. If we were to trade the 1523 in, it would be bigger, and with a cab. Those 1600 series look oh so sweet!!

 

[Gittyup]

Weight is good for ground engagement and digging, sure. But how many trenches are you going to dig, maybe 2 or 3 or even 4. how many foundations are you going to dig, one or none? How much ground are you going to plow for crops. For that matter, how many hours are you going to be in the seat?

And so goes the argument for/against investing in a backhoe at all. Me, I only have 2.5 acres. In 3 years, I've dug 6 trenches of between 50' and 100' each, installed a buried propane tank, dug a garden pond, installed a septic, dug foundation for retaining wall, removed many stumps, buried a deer carcass and the neighbors dog, used it as crane.... And I still have more projects planned, like another retaining wall and a bigger garden pond. Even though I'm probably approaching break-even on my backhoe investment, it's still not so easy to justify. But it allows you do what you want to do when you want to do it. I love that attachment!

Many would say that my tractor is too big for my property. Me, I think it's just right for the chores I have had to do and will be doing. I've pushed my machine to the limits, sometimes wanting for bigger, all the while knowing that smaller would not have ever been sufficient. When I'm "done", I've thought about trading down a size. But it's hard to give up that capability once you have it, especially when there is no compelling reason to downsize.

So, buy a big enough machine properly equipped to safely do the jobs in a reasonable amount of time. Buy too small or the wrong type, and you'll be sorry.

 

[IslandTractor]

Many would say that my tractor is too big for my property.

Yep, you would have been happy with a CK20 TLB. But that is from someone who traded his CK20 for a DK40se. I know the benefits of more HP but the bottom line is that the smaller tractors really can do it all just not as fast. I know we are just having a vigorous discussion here so no one is entirely correct or incorrect in their positions. Still, I continue to believe that for up to 5 acres a 20 something hp is fine, for 5-10 a 30 is plenty and 10-20 acres can be easily handled by a 40. Yes, tasks are just as important as acreage in determining size but there are only a few tasks that really require the extra HP and it doesn't make a lot of sense to be hauling around all that metal and loan payments to take care of the 5% of tasks that would take you a lot longer with a smaller machine. Biggest stump I ever dug out was with the 20hp TLB, it just took a while.

 

[Gittyup]

Yep, you would have been happy with a CK20 TLB.

I actually had a CK20 at my place for a few days. Tried it out a good bit. Found it for my father-in-law for a steal: CK20 TLB manual tranny, 250 hours for $8000! What I found out is that the CK20 would have made my chores just too long, and many it just wouldn't have had the power/weight/reach to do. The CK25 was at its absolute limits on many of those jobs. Using a CK20 would have taken much longer, required that I do more manual labor, and required renting equipment/hiring out for some of the tasks. I am completely convinced I bought the right sized tractor for what I had to do. While I don't have a big lot, I do have BIG projects.

Still I liked the little 20 a lot, as does my FIL. He did offer to trade it to me for my CK25 plus $4500 in cash. It was tempting because I'm just about done with my big jobs. But, then I got to thinking about my attachments. They would have been too big for the CK20. Anyway, as I said, I like having the capabilities of the bigger tractor at-hand when I want/need them. Besides, I don't have a need for a smaller tractor. I don't mow nor plow snow with my CK. My JD GT handles those chores much better.

I re-read the OP's postings, and perhaps I am wrong in thinking that digging is a big priority for him. In that case the B3030 would be a good choice. It is a very nice setup. But, if one doesn't really need a backhoe and still has money to spend, it would be better to invest in a snow blower, chipper, log splitter, grapple, rake, or other attachments that would make life easier all around. You can buy a lot of toys for the money spent on a backhoe.

 

[Lt CHEG]

To the OP,

Is more land in yout future? And having a cab, and blowing snow is the only way. If we were to trade the 1523 in, it would be bigger, and with a cab. Those 1600 series look oh so sweet!!

Honestly, I'm not sure. There is another unused parcel of land right next door, but it is not for sale. I don't know if it ever will be or not. I'm thinking that once we get everything set up with the house and can start saving more money I may make an unsolicited offer to buy the land. Certainly if the land is ever offered for sale and the price is affordable for us we will try buy it. The neighboring parcel is about the same size as our land, so potentially we could double the size of our land, but I'd say the chances of doing so are 50/50 at best. Certainly we'd like to but I don't know for sure if we'll be expanding.

 

[Builder]

I don't think you're buying too big. These compacts are powerful, but they're not that heavy or clumsy compared to older ones. 25 years ago, I cut 2 acres with a 10HP gas tractor with a 36" cut, 20 years later I use a 20HP Deere with a 54" cut. Much faster & more efficient.

I would have no problems using a 45HP cab compact on 6-7 acres if most of it has to be mowed, cleared, long driveway plowed, etc. My time is my most valuable and rapidly diminishing asset. If I can cut with a 84" mower behind a 45HP compact rather than a 54" mower behind a smaller one, it's worth it to get the job done fast.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I don't think you're buying too big. These compacts are powerful, but they're not that heavy or clumsy compared to older ones. I would have no problems using a 45HP cab compact on 6-7 acres if most of it is to be mowed, cleared, etc. My time is my most valuable and rapidly diminishing asset. If I can cut with a 84" mower behind a 45HP compact rather than a 54" mower behind a smaller one, it's worth it.

I agree 100%. Time is the most valuable thing that there is. Once it's gone, you can never get it back. As so many have said, the smaller tractors can get the job done, and I do not dispute that, but at what cost in time?

Me, I have to go out and work, so I need to get stuff done around the property as fast as I can, because at this time my property makes me ZERO income. Please don't get me wrong, all the tractors have their place, otherwise they wouldn't be getting built. Everybody tries to get what best suits them and their circumstances, being their financial situation, type of property, time line, whatever it may be. But as the OP said, he has mostly open property and wants to get his work done in a quick comfortable manor, and can afford to get a little bigger tractor than so many others would get for his size property. Nothing wrong with this, and more power to him.

One of the things that I don't understand is why some of you act as though you should have so many acres to have a 40-50HP tractor. It's not like you're trying to do U turns in the garage. I have a 75HP tractor, it takes 30 feet to make a U turn, not hundreds of feet. Again, I'm sure that there are circumstances where it is preferable to have a smaller tractor, but if a bigger machine will work and one can afford it, well I just don't understand the hard push from so many for the smaller tractors.

 

[IslandTractor]

if a bigger machine will work and one can afford it, well I just don't understand the hard push from so many for the smaller tractors.

The OP can buy whatever he wants. He can buy a Ford Excursion to drive two miles to the grocery store to purchase a box of cereal too. The point of pointing out that smaller tractors make sense is the same as arguing that a smaller road vehicle would be appropriate for the run to the grocery store. If the OP has needs like pulling a horse trailer every other weekend then an Excursion may make perfect sense. Likewise if there is a task he cannot do with a 30hp tractor it would make sense to get bigger. Nothing on the list of tasks however seems to require more than a good 30hp tractor which pulls a six foot mower and seven/eight foot BH). The difference in time saved mowing with a six foot mower compared to a seven foot mower is not that much...maybe he should be looking at something that pulls a 15ft batwing if time is that critical.

 

[ovrszd]

maybe he should be looking at something that pulls a 15ft batwing if time is that critical.

4WD, Center Pivot, w/duals of course!!! I think they all come with a cab too!!!

 

[greggh]

I don't think that anyone has to justify what they buy. They buy because that's what they want. The argument may be made that it is the wrong purchase for that person making the argument, but the person making the argument is not the one plopping down the money. But I must admit that it all makes good reading.

 

[Builder]

The OP can buy whatever he wants. He can buy a Ford Excursion to drive two miles to the grocery store to purchase a box of cereal too. The point of pointing out that smaller tractors make sense is the same as arguing that a smaller road vehicle would be appropriate for the run to the grocery store. If the OP has needs like pulling a horse trailer every other weekend then an Excursion may make perfect sense. Likewise if there is a task he cannot do with a 30hp tractor it would make sense to get bigger. Nothing on the list of tasks however seems to require more than a good 30hp tractor which pulls a six foot mower and seven/eight foot BH). The difference in time saved mowing with a six foot mower compared to a seven foot mower is not that much...maybe he should be looking at something that pulls a 15ft batwing if time is that critical.

Couple additional points:
1.A higher HP tractor can not only pull a bigger mower, but it can also pull a bigger mower faster. That saves more time. If I can cut my field 2 hours faster, it leaves me 2 more hours to coach my kid's lacrosse team, sleep, etc.
2. A higher HP tractor can do other jobs faster-snowplowing, backhoe & loader work, etc. That is also time and effort saved.

Try to remember that many series of tractors of different HP have the same frame, chassis & tires, but more HP within that given frame size.

Look at the Kubota M-5040/6040/7040. They're nearly identical in size, weight, etc., but the 7040 has 20 more HP than the 5040. That means a lot more PTO HP to pull a bigger mower faster.

 

[lungdoc]

Nothing on the list of tasks however seems to require more than a good 30hp tractor which pulls a six foot mower and seven/eight foot BH).

I have a hard time thinking you could do much brush hog work with a 7-8 footer on a 30 hp tractor - maybe a light duty unit mowing fields but not a heavier duty unit (might be too much weight alone) or for real brush/trail work. I have always thought 5 hp/foot rule, and I thought that was PTO HP. We use a 6 foot, fairly heavy duty MX-6 on our 4320 (40 PTO hp, 48 total) and I wouldn't want bigger.

 

[IslandTractor]

Couple additional points:
1.A higher HP tractor can not only pull a bigger mower, but it can also pull a bigger mower faster. That saves more time. If I can cut my field 2 hours faster, it leaves me 2 more hours to coach my kid's lacrosse team, sleep, etc.

Maybe, but.... To save 2 hours when comparing the cutting speed of a B3030 pulling a 6ft mower compared to a 45hp tractor pulling a 7ft mower would mean that you must be mowing at least 30 acres as any smaller acreage would just not show that sort of difference in time spent mowing. With that kind of acreage even bigger equipment is justified. There are various estimates on how much you can mow in an hour with different size machines but I doubt that the 30hp/6ft would be more than 5-10 minutes an acre slower than a 45hp/7ft rig. Soundguy has a lot of experience with different mowing equipment and his estimates from a prior thread are useful to consider: for the same 10 flat Florida acres of fields that are regularly mowed, it takes him 5hours with a 30hp tractor and 5ft mower (2acres/hr) or 3 hours with a 70hp tractor and 10foot mower(3.3 acres/hr). So doubling the size of the mower deck and the tractor nets a 50% increase in cut speed. Put another way, to save two hours in mowing time he has to mow a total of 20 acres. And that is using a 70hp/10ft mower rig which doubles the cut width. The difference between a 30hp/6ft and a 45hp/7ft rig would be considerably less as the cut width is only 16% different. After all, it is just cutting an additional 12 inches per pass and still needing the exact same set up time, put away time, travel to field time, manuver around bushes and trees etc. The difference in mower size maybe be 7/6 or 116% but that means that at most you'd get 16% extra speed due to the mower width. If it takes 3 hours to actually mow 6.5 acres with a 7ft mower then it would take approximately 3hrs and 20 minutes to mow with the 6ft mower. If 20 minutes makes that much difference to your extracurricular activities then go for it but it is not really such a big savings in time especially when you factor in the non mowing time of set up etc. I appreciate your assertion that a bigger tractor might mow faster but that would mostly be in conditions such as very tall heavy growth of grass where the extra PTO power might help. For routine mowing I don't think 45hp tractors mow at a higher MPH than 30hp CUTs.

By the way, it only takes Soundguy 2hrs to mow the 10 acres with a 95hp tractor pulling a 15ft batwing. Now we know why he spends so much time hanging out in his hot tub!