New Garage Pole Barn 40 x 64 x 12

[bugstruck]

I'd add some diagonal bracing at the corner in plane with the bottom chord of the trusses once you get the vertical loading squared away. Just make sure your PE understands framing and lumber. A family member had an indoor riding facility that was never braced off properly (at least your guys are doing gable bracing in more than one location). Bottom line is the trusses started tilting over time. One PE later (first one promulgated the collapse with a boneheaded sequence of construction for the repair) (I offered an opinion before they started but they didn't like it) and a $138K insurance settlement later and it stopped looking like a 1000 lb bomb had landed dead center. Most important thing is via one phone call I received from family when the failure was mid process everybody got out alive. They were trying to rebrace it from inside and underneath while truss plates were popping. How dumb can one get? Getting structure right on them is well, important.

 

[Steve C]

The only way I am going to need a barn that can fit a boat like yours is to sleep with Tiger Woods and sell a book. You may be right but I have room to play with at the new place. At least you got me thinking about how to do an 11' door. Many thanks for that!!!

Congratulations on the power easement negotiations. I think you have just discovered who your "good" neighbors are. Do not give the other guy anything except for a one fingered salute. He isn't the sort of person you would want as a neighbor or a friend.

Take the money you saved and buy a 14 foot tall main structure. You will not be sorry. It is the best money you will ever spend. I was pricing out pole buildings and I discovered that the difference between a 10 foot high 40 x 60 building and a 14 foot high 40 x 60 building was less than 10%. Wait a minute, I am getting 40% more building for 10%?????? WTF? That is a huge increase in usable space.

As a structure assumes the shape of a cube it becomes more efficient to build per cubic volume. The roof and supporting structure are much more expensive than the side walls because they have to handle snow loads, and it doesn't matter how high off the ground they are. The side walls have to handle wind loads. Not a big deal. So since your expensive part is the roof, push it up there as high as possible and get the space for almost free.

I wish I had gone to a 16 foot building...I didn't think about the possibilities because I was dealing with the loss of 40 years of stuff and the building, but if I had it to do over again I would have spent the extra $1500 to go to a full 16 foot side wall. But hey, 14 is prettty sweet There is amost nothing that can be driven down the road that won't fit in there.

 

[mikeyee]

Getting it stamped by PE shouldn't be too hard provided you know what kind of loads the structure will be holding up. I used to be a cad drafter during college and from what I can see from the drawings is the lack of detail on the materials used (what kind of bolts, what kind of arrangements of supports, the design of each load beam with the cross beams (whether its bolted on outside of welded)). These all probably might not make a difference (it did on some projects I worked on) but eventually you'll have to make sure it all works out.

Electrical is a good price reducer and I wish you luck in getting service out there. From my experience in texas, it takes about 6months to a year to get power and running on generators cost quite a bit of change. Good luck on your project!

 

[Duffster]

I'd add some diagonal bracing at the corner in plane with the bottom chord of the trusses once you get the vertical loading squared away. Just make sure your PE understands framing and lumber. A family member had an indoor riding facility that was never braced off properly (at least your guys are doing gable bracing in more than one location). Bottom line is the trusses started tilting over time. One PE later (first one promulgated the collapse with a boneheaded sequence of construction for the repair) (I offered an opinion before they started but they didn't like it) and a $138K insurance settlement later and it stopped looking like a 1000 lb bomb had landed dead center. Most important thing is via one phone call I received from family when the failure was mid process everybody got out alive. They were trying to rebrace it from inside and underneath while truss plates were popping. How dumb can one get? Getting structure right on them is well, important.

Why do you need diagonal braces if you have gable braces?

 

[yooperdave]

Believe it or not, the level of detail submitted here and getting an engineers review is far and away better than what happens to most pole buildings.

My builder had to deal with me as a Structural PE - but I warned him in advance and we worked thru most of the issues to satisfaction. I do not think he lost money on my job, but I made sure he addressed my sturctural concerns which did use some of his resources.

Builders (and many Architects) like to use statistical engeering. The statististics change when there is a big wind or big snow and then they start to look for the advice of Structural Engineers after something fell down or someone got hurt.

I did have 1 question though: Where is your slab on grade, and is it figured into your clear height of your building? Usually, the slab is several inches higher than the outside grade for drainage reasons. My building is 12'-5" high - 12' clear, and 5" for the slab on grade. From first galnce, you will only have 11'-6" to 11'-8" clearance - NOT 12' as possibly intended.

Good Luck on your project.

Yooper Dave

 

[hcallaway]

I did have 1 question though: Where is your slab on grade, and is it figured into your clear height of your building? Usually, the slab is several inches higher than the outside grade for drainage reasons. My building is 12'-5" high - 12' clear, and 5" for the slab on grade. From first galnce, you will only have 11'-6" to 11'-8" clearance - NOT 12' as possibly intended.

Good Luck on your project.

Yooper Dave

My loss on height will be between 0-4". The kick board will be off the ground and I may have to add an additional treated board on the bottom. I will have to back fill once the building is up.

 

[hcallaway]

Getting it stamped by PE shouldn't be too hard provided you know what kind of loads the structure will be holding up. I used to be a cad drafter during college and from what I can see from the drawings is the lack of detail on the materials used (what kind of bolts, what kind of arrangements of supports, the design of each load beam with the cross beams (whether its bolted on outside of welded)). These all probably might not make a difference (it did on some projects I worked on) but eventually you'll have to make sure it all works out.

Electrical is a good price reducer and I wish you luck in getting service out there. From my experience in texas, it takes about 6months to a year to get power and running on generators cost quite a bit of change. Good luck on your project!

The power will be installed within 3 weeks as soon as I give them the OK as long as the weather is good. They have it already drawn up and I confirmed the signed papers made it back to their office. I don't want power until the building is up and the septic is installed. They will run it underground as soon as it hits my property.

The builder has agreed to eat $175 of the $500 for a PE stamp, not what I wanted but he had some wiggle room in the contract if the local codes require any changes. I am out an additional $375 but at least I will have a set of stamped plans if I need to use them again.
I called a good friend (PE) to see what he thought of the price to get them stamped. He said $500 was not a bad number and his firm would charge more. In his opinion the PE more than likely already has figured out the loads and this is easy money for him.

 

[bugstruck]

Why do you need diagonal braces if you have gable braces?

Ties the outermost corners together in the plane of the bottom chords. In a large pole or framed structure, presumably without interior walls like a home which would provide added shear against lateral wind loading of the walls/gables, the corner braces stiffen the gables againt unusual pressures. Better way to explain it is that if you pushed on the center (bottom) of one gable truss with enough force you could deform the opposite gable in the same direction. Granted, you eventually have to overcome the membrane resistance of the roof (but it's not in that plane) and deform that too.... but when you get larger expanses of gable and end wall exposed to wind, no membrane on the bottom chords (as drywall ceilings are in a home), the structure is much more vulnerable wind to loading. Those corner braces are fast, cheap, and easy. You would have to run calculations on any particular structure to reach a real conclusion but a large span truss pole barn with corner braces may take say another 20 or 30 MPH of wind (on gable) before anything starts to deflect. We are talking larger wind speeds and loads. If it never gets over 60 MPH sustained it problably is not an issue in that rough example. But at 75-80 its potentially a problem. I never built a truss roof house without corner braces (except attic trusses) and they have all kinds of ancillary supports a pole barn doesn't. Haven't framed in my home state of Maryland in quite awhile but you had to have those corner braces in every conventional trussed roof home in the late 70's and early 80's. Not sure what other jurisdictions require.

Large truss center to center spacing on pole barns doesn't help things out either as there are fewer connection points to the purlins or sheathed roof membrane meaning that plane is a bit weaker to start.

Smaller structures are not the same issue as there isn't enough surface area and unbraced expanse to worry about it. Frankly, neither is the average house gable once the drywall is up.

 

[hcallaway]

Can anyone do a simple drawing as I am having a hard time visualizing what you are saying?

Why do you need diagonal braces if you have gable braces?

 

[Duffster]

Ties the outermost corners together in the plane of the bottom chords. In a large pole or framed structure, presumably without interior walls like a home which would provide added shear against lateral wind loading of the walls/gables, the corner braces stiffen the gables againt unusual pressures. Better way to explain it is that if you pushed on the center (bottom) of one gable truss with enough force you could deform the opposite gable in the same direction. Granted, you eventually have to overcome the membrane resistance of the roof (but it's not in that plane) and deform that too.... but when you get larger expanses of gable and end wall exposed to wind, no membrane on the bottom chords (as drywall ceilings are in a home), the structure is much more vulnerable wind to loading. Those corner braces are fast, cheap, and easy. You would have to run calculations on any particular structure to reach a real conclusion but a large span truss pole barn with corner braces may take say another 20 or 30 MPH of wind (on gable) before anything starts to deflect. We are talking larger wind speeds and loads. If it never gets over 60 MPH sustained it problably is not an issue in that rough example. But at 75-80 its potentially a problem. I never built a truss roof house without corner braces (except attic trusses) and they have all kinds of ancillary supports a pole barn doesn't. Haven't framed in my home state of Maryland in quite awhile but you had to have those corner braces in every conventional trussed roof home in the late 70's and early 80's. Not sure what other jurisdictions require.

Large truss center to center spacing on pole barns doesn't help things out either as there are fewer connection points to the purlins or sheathed roof membrane meaning that plane is a bit weaker to start.

Smaller structures are not the same issue as there isn't enough surface area and unbraced expanse to worry about it. Frankly, neither is the average house gable once the drywall is up.

I still don't see why you would need these along with gable braces. I guess I can't see the gable wall deflecting at all with a properly built gable brace.

Typically one or the other is done around here.