5w40 Syn - even if warranty calls for 10w30??

[SunnyJim]

After a little more research, found out I can run Amsoil 10w30/30. SYN.

I thought you needed a CJ-4 oil? Amsoil ACD is CI-4+ and could be considered a thinner version of AME 15W-40. I don't know why they are trying to talk you out of running the oil you want to run. Amsoils new CJ-4 oils are quality products and I would use the 5W-40 in an instant if I needed a CJ-4 oil. I run ACD in a mix of cars and equipment, from generators and mowers to my daily driver. All gassers by the way. I have AME 15W-40 in my Kioti and would not have it any other way. The Kioti only spec's CC or CD oil so CI-4+ oil is a no brainer. I started the tractor this morning with no effort at all even though it was 29F. Not nearly as cold as you will see but for us thats pretty cold. If I do decide to use a 30wt it will be ACD, buy why when AME is working so well.

What does the owners manual call for? I may have missed that, but I know you wanted a CJ-4 oil so I was wondering if that was the spec in the owners.

 

[WilliamBos]

I thought you needed a CJ-4 oil? Amsoil ACD is CI-4+ and could be considered a thinner version of AME 15W-40. I don't know why they are trying to talk you out of running the oil you want to run. Amsoils new CJ-4 oils are quality products and I would use the 5W-40 in an instant if I needed a CJ-4 oil. I run ACD in a mix of cars and equipment, from generators and mowers to my daily driver. All gassers by the way. I have AME 15W-40 in my Kioti and would not have it any other way. The Kioti only spec's CC or CD oil so CI-4+ oil is a no brainer. I started the tractor this morning with no effort at all even though it was 29F. Not nearly as cold as you will see but for us thats pretty cold. If I do decide to use a 30wt it will be ACD, buy why when AME is working so well.

What does the owners manual call for? I may have missed that, but I know you wanted a CJ-4 oil so I was wondering if that was the spec in the owners.

The manuals call for CC, still outdated. I do not have a DPF, and the CI oils are higher in ZDDP, which I forgot about. I can Run CJ4, but I can also run CI, which has more ZDDP. Amsoil still makes high ZDDP oils, others are going CJ4 formula, so I guess now, I do have a choice.

Will CJ4 hurt??

 

[RickB]

The manuals call for CC, still outdated. I do not have a DPF, and the CI oils are higher in ZDDP, which I forgot about. I can Run CJ4, but I can also run CI, which has more ZDDP. Amsoil still makes high ZDDP oils, others are going CJ4 formula, so I guess now, I do have a choice.

Will CJ4 hurt??

New Holland does not recommend CJ-4 oils for its Tier III and lesser compliant equipment. Nor does NH currently market a CJ-4 oil. In this part of the world, there are currently no requirements for off-road equipment ot be TierIV compliant (that I am aware of). CJ-4 oils are generally not backwards compatible to other specs because of the ZDDP and other additive concerns. I have no idea how AGCO views any of this.

Emission Standards: USA: Nonroad Diesel Engines

 

[SARG]

This is becoming very complicated. The manufacturers of the CJ-4 oils state they are ALL compatible with prior requirements. I'm starting to get a headache over what is acceptable.

 

[SunnyJim]

Does CJ-4 apply to off-highway vehicles?
No. The standard applies only to lubricants used in on-highway vehicles beginning with model year 2007.

The Lubrizol Corporation

Its not that complicated really. CJ-4 is best when used in on road vehicles that will be running on ULSD. If you are using offroad diesel that is high in sulfer and using CJ-4 you have to run short drain intervals because the oil was designed specificly for low sulfur fuel. CJ-4 oil has lower levels of calicum and a lower overall TBN so it cannot resist the build of acids from higher sulfur fuels as well as CI-4+ oils.

8. Can API CJ-4 oils be used in off-highway applications?
API CJ-4 oils can be used in off-highway applications. However, the use of API CJ-4 oils with higher sulfur fuels, like those generally provided for off-highway use that may contain up to 5,000 ppm sulfur, may result in revised oil drain intervals and other maintenance recommendations. As non-road fuel sulfur levels are reduced, first to 500 ppm in June 2007 and then to 15 ppm in June 2010, manufacturer recommendations may be revised.

CJ-4 Service Category Description


The ZDDP level did drop but not as much as many seem to think. Calcuim on the other hand was reduced quite a bit in some cases. One of the goals of CJ-4 was to reduce overall ash in the oil to 1.0% or less.

 

[SunnyJim]

The manuals call for CC, still outdated. I do not have a DPF, and the CI oils are higher in ZDDP, which I forgot about. I can Run CJ4, but I can also run CI, which has more ZDDP. Amsoil still makes high ZDDP oils, others are going CJ4 formula, so I guess now, I do have a choice.

Will CJ4 hurt??

Amsoil has several choices for CI-4+ oils.

AMSOIL - SAE 10W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil (AMO)

AMSOIL - Synthetic Diesel & Marine Motor Oil SAE 15W-40 (AME)

AMSOIL - Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (ACD)

AMSOIL - Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD)

AMSOIL - SAE 20W-50 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil (ARO)

Some of their best options. You just need to decide on the weight you want to run for those cold starts. You can Graph and compare your favorite oil choices and adjust the temperature to your expected cold start. You will find that AME is much thinner at lower temps then most 15w-40's. It graphs closer to a 5w-40 actually.

 

[jimgerken]

Williambos: You've gotten plenty of good advice here and I don't object to any of it. One thing I'd add though: Don't get in a hurry to change the oil to synthetic. You mentioned you had 50 hours on it. Have you got at least half of those hours actually doing some demanding engine work, like pulling a drawbar implement through the ground, or some PTO application that taxes the engine? If you havent actually broken the engine in yet, please do yourself a favor and accomplish a good thorough breakin before installing the synthetic with much higher film strength. It's now or never on the breakin. All our local (Deere) dealerships recommend doing the first oil change with breakin oil again. An alternative would be to make sure the engine gets some real work before changing out the factory filled breakin oil, even if it takes a few more (more than 50 exactly) hours.
BTW, I am also totally sold on the benefits of sythetic and run Amsoil in almost everything. They have a very wide selection of very specific products, but there is one application they don't provide, so I use Mobile1 for that one app.
Following the advice of the local dealers (extending initial drain interval and/or using breakin oil for the first change), I have had two diesel tractors in a row that actually showed clean oil at 100 hours on each oil change, thru 3 years old each. This years' new tractor was done with similar method, so we will see how that comes out. It was run three times the recommended initial interval before changing oil the first time, then changing to synthetic. All summer hours, all in 9 weeks (very busy time), with a close eye on the oil level and apparent viscosity, and continuous thought about what the engine was actually doing. A lot of running around loader work (not really taxing the engine), some heavy loader work (mild engine effort), and toward the end of the initial oil period there was some very heavy ground engaging work which I felt really put the finish on the breakin.
The point is, think about what loads the engine is seeing and do not put in synthetic until it has actually broken in. Hours on the meter do not mean it has broken in. Push it a little and it will seal better.

 

[WilliamBos]

Williambos: You've gotten plenty of good advice here and I don't object to any of it. One thing I'd add though: Don't get in a hurry to change the oil to synthetic. You mentioned you had 50 hours on it. Have you got at least half of those hours actually doing some demanding engine work, like pulling a drawbar implement through the ground, or some PTO application that taxes the engine? If you havent actually broken the engine in yet, please do yourself a favor and accomplish a good thorough breakin before installing the synthetic with much higher film strength. It's now or never on the breakin. All our local (Deere) dealerships recommend doing the first oil change with breakin oil again. An alternative would be to make sure the engine gets some real work before changing out the factory filled breakin oil, even if it takes a few more (more than 50 exactly) hours.
BTW, I am also totally sold on the benefits of sythetic and run Amsoil in almost everything. They have a very wide selection of very specific products, but there is one application they don't provide, so I use Mobile1 for that one app.
Following the advice of the local dealers (extending initial drain interval and/or using breakin oil for the first change), I have had two diesel tractors in a row that actually showed clean oil at 100 hours on each oil change, thru 3 years old each. This years' new tractor was done with similar method, so we will see how that comes out. It was run three times the recommended initial interval before changing oil the first time, then changing to synthetic. All summer hours, all in 9 weeks (very busy time), with a close eye on the oil level and apparent viscosity, and continuous thought about what the engine was actually doing. A lot of running around loader work (not really taxing the engine), some heavy loader work (mild engine effort), and toward the end of the initial oil period there was some very heavy ground engaging work which I felt really put the finish on the breakin.
The point is, think about what loads the engine is seeing and do not put in synthetic until it has actually broken in. Hours on the meter do not mean it has broken in. Push it a little and it will seal better.

Thanks to everyone for all the well thought out replies. Sheds some light on this.

We have 5 hours on it now, nothing to engaging as of yet. I think I will do exactly as you suggested, run dino 10w30 on the 50 hour service, and switch out to synthetics @ 100 hours, like we did on the 1523. There will be snowblowing (eventually) and lots of ground engaging jobs come spring.

 

[sw03]

I have yet to follow manuals about oils in my life. Most are old by the time you got them.

Even my bota Bx manual states a 10w-30 oil min and that would be poor in my climate. I will use Amsoil (have for way toooo many years) and not worry.

Even if you follow the manual and had slips 99% of dealers will pull a UOA to prove the oil was or was not the issue...Manuals do not mean much.

You could run the cheapest oil and oil filter and be fine..I use it for the best pour point, best UOA etc. YMMV

Ps. Amsoil just won a case with a dealer stating warranty would not be covered unless you used their oil....They lost.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Its not that complicated really. CJ-4 is best when used in on road vehicles that will be running on ULSD. If you are using offroad diesel that is high in sulfer and using CJ-4 you have to run short drain intervals because the oil was designed specificly for low sulfur fuel. CJ-4 oil has lower levels of calicum and a lower overall TBN so it cannot resist the build of acids from higher sulfur fuels as well as CI-4+ oils.


The ZDDP level did drop but not as much as many seem to think. Calcuim on the other hand was reduced quite a bit in some cases. One of the goals of CJ-4 was to reduce overall ash in the oil to 1.0% or less.

Makes me wonder if there is a filter, perhaps with a time release additive, that would augment the reduced acid control of CJ-4 back up to CI-4+ levels. Do you know of anything?
Im sorry I didnt know about this cuz I recently "wasted" several gallons of Rotella 5w40 syn in a 2006 Cummins when I could have used CJ and saved the CI for the tractors.
larry