How to kill yourself without knowing

brin · Oct 16, 2010

As far as reaction time and staying safe in general on our tractors, as an example today I had 2 trees down, big trees at the farm and I had my tractor with FEL..and my chain saw..so I took my time ( Patience ) I was not in a hurry and would not let myself be even though there was a Georgia ? Vanderbuilt game I wanted to see real bad..

I carefully approached the biggest pine and found there was no way my loader was going to help since I began to tip when I attempted to lift it ...so I backed off and went to the chain saw...as I cut 6 foot chunks off the tree I pulled them away with the draw bar slow and easy to my dump site...I say it is just " Patience " and careful considration of what you are doing while realizing it could be the last thing you ever do if you do it wrong..that is the way to stay safe...no matter what physics dictates..you go slow and easy...do not be in a hurry and take it seriously and study what you are about to do and the lay of the land, position of your loader and then test it little by little and that should prevent an untimely departure from this life...Just my 2 cents.

HiddenHollow · Oct 16, 2010

Brin nailed it! You have to slow down and pay attention. I work at a cogeneration plant and work with electricity, steam, and objects rotating at thousands of rpms. You can't just grab hold of something because you think there is a problem with it. You have to take a look and see what needs to be secured so you can work on it. People are in way to much of a hurry. If people slowed down and thought about what they where doing we would not have all those stickers on equipment saying "KEEP HANDS AWAY". As far as reaction time , if you are anticipating certain things you can react fairly quick but if you get thrown a curve ball you will be a little slower to react.

P.S. Ann Rand knows who John Galt is.

SPYDERLK · Oct 16, 2010

brin said:
...no matter what physics dictates..you go slow and easy

:confused2: Huh?!
larry

texasjohn · Oct 17, 2010

Brin, while I agree with your approach, I suggest you add rear weight.... if you EVER begin to "tip" this means you don't have sufficient rear weight. The hydraulic relief valve should release before tipping the tractor. If it doesn't, then you are missing out on "all your tractor can be".... and making more work for yourself.... not saying you didn't need to use saw on the trees, just that maybe it would have taken fewer cuts to get there.

nebraskasparks · Oct 20, 2010

Well the thread and the argument for cognitive reaction time is not dead!

I've been doing research on tractors and FEL stability and ran across an accident report that showed that the operator made a deliberate attempt to "bail" off the tractor. So much for the instantaneous reaction time argument made by various members in the TBN community that think they can jump ship faster than a tractor can flip.

A T-38 trainer used by the USAF could rotate 720 degrees (two complete revolutions) around the longitudinal axis in under one second. Powerful moment arm to say the least.

A tractor with an FEL can flip faster than a human can react according to the evidence of some of these reports. Compound this with a slick muddy surface (feedlot) and a slight angle while turning downhill ...how fast can it flip? Most of the accidents that I have been reading show the FEL above the hood of the tractor.
If we start looking at the fact that these operators are experienced (some over the age of 60) therefore had experience with near tip experiences...then other factors come into play.
What tractor operations constitute a "reaction time" response versus operations that need a "cognitive thought out solution".

/pine · Oct 20, 2010

Well the thread and the argument for cognitive reaction time is not dead!

...but using unsubstantiated data makes it moot...

A T-38 trainer used by the USAF could rotate 720 degrees (two complete revolutions) around the longitudinal axis in under one second. Powerful moment arm to say the least.

hardly relative...in case you haven't noticed there is a big difference between a training jet and a tractor with a front end loader...

nebraskasparks · Oct 20, 2010

/pine said:
...but using unsubstantiated data makes it moot...

hardly relative...in case you haven't noticed there is a big difference between a training jet and a tractor with a front end loader...

Hey / Pine....long time no hear! Good to hear from you.

In case you haven't noticed....the laws of motion and gravity affect all heavenly and earthly bodies (Reference Issac Newton and Einstein...and many other sources that I am unable to document at the moment

)

In case you haven't noticed...There is very little difference between a tractor rolling around its longitudinal axis or an aircraft. Both have resistance factors whether it be soil, air, tires, aircraft drag...both have huge moment arms whether it be an aileron in a 400 knot airstream or a bucket loaded with heavy material.
Matter of fact...a tractor sitting sideways on a slope with a bucket of material raised over the hood of the tractor has the exact same rolling characteristics of an aircraft to pitch UP and OVER.

CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE STUDY OF THE DYNAMICS OF AGRICULTURAL
TRACTORS EQUIPPED WITH FRONT-END LOADER AND REAR FORKLIFT LOADER
Simion Popescu, Nastase Sutru
Transilvania University of Brasov/Romania, Faculty of Alimentation and Tourism
simipop38@yahoo.com, sutru_nastase@yahoo.com

Physics are physics and the laws affect all bodies in many of the same ways. Are the forces exerted on these bodies exactly identical .... of course not.

The jet and the tractor are identical in that they can move fast enough around the longitudinal axis to kill an experienced operator no matter what is reaction speed is...even if he did have lightning fast nerves.

Good to hear from you.

/pine · Oct 20, 2010

Hey / Pine....long time no hear! Good to hear from you.

I've been around...it's almost Halloween and I always dress up as 'The Devils Advocate'

...got to keep things interesting...

Your dedication and research on the subject (both threads) may very well save sombody's butt...more power to you...

nebraskasparks · Oct 20, 2010

/pine said:
I've been around...it's almost Halloween and I always dress up as 'The Devils Advocate' ...got to keep things interesting...

Your dedication and research on the subject (both threads) may very well save sombody's butt...more power to you...

Your the kind of guy that keeps us honest and that's admirable. Iron sharpening iron is an excellent thing.
The legal system has caused companies to "hide" the information or not release it and it's up to us to educate our "own" from getting hurt.
You hit it on the head....I have to much experience at funerals and I will spend every moment of my life trying to help people stay out of harms way. I'll drag em to the water hole, I might even force their head under water after I've salted their feed...but I can't make them drink!