Re-fills: Is there an easier way than two 5-gal diesel jugs??

[moored4]

When I get my tank done I will post a picture of it so we can stay on topic! I have learned and had fun doing it Thanks Guys!

Well, as I promised, here is a link to a post of my fuel skid build with pictures! I didn't paint it orange cause I had a lot of black!

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/203163-diesel-fule-skid.html

 

[davygp38]

Well, as I promised, here is a link to a post of my fuel skid build with pictures! I didn't paint it orange cause I had a lot of black!

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/203163-diesel-fule-skid.html

Nice job, You could sell those if you had the inclination.:thumbsup:

 

[SteveInMD]

Ok here goes with what I found out. This gets hilarious. :laughing:

I called the people that should know the answers and they did not have a clue!

1.It seems that tractor owners know more than the government and the people that or responsible for enforcing the laws. Score one for you guys.:thumbsup:

2.The DOT is more interested in pump handles color- diesel is green.

3.OSHA and Nfpa are interested in tank color. diesel is yellow

4.When I called the national DOT office they said green is for diesel. Tanks, handles and hose.

5.When I called Wa. state patrol they thought I was nuts, did not understand what I was asking until I drew them a picture, and still did not have a answer. They suggested I call the weigh station.

6.When I called the weigh station on I5, just north of Vancouver, Wa. They needed me to also draw them a picture, They finally told me it had to be an approved container for the fuel I was transporting. I asked them what constituted an approved container for diesel and they could not give me an answer. At this time I thanked them and got out of dodge cause the officer was beginning to smoke a little from under his hat.

7.I was raised in south Texas and all of the diesel tanks at that time were green and gas was red. I moved to south west Washington 30 years ago and all of the diesel tanks around the mill I worked at and in the logging camps had a lot of green diesel tanks. So I assumed that Green was a diesel designation. So since the fine officer that are enforcing these laws on us the public do not really know or understand what color is for diesel, I will paint my tank whatever color I want. :tractor: Kubota ORANGE!

I :dance1:have had more fun and have laughed more in the last hour than in a long time. It was better than watching a Laurel and hardy film. When I get my tank done I will post a picture of it so we can stay on topic! I have learned and had fun doing it Thanks Guys!

I have yet to ever see anyone on TBN post an actual reference to a federal or state regulation that says what type and color container a home owner must use for fuel, gasoline or diesel. There are rules for fuel "in commerce" but these rules are only for businesses. There are rules about how containers must be manufactured if you would like to produce and sell them. I've never seen an actual regulation that applies to me as average joe home owner. Until I see an actual rule my position is that you can use absolutely anything you like to buy and transport fuel.

 

[PCABE5]

I have yet to ever see anyone on TBN post an actual reference to a federal or state regulation that says what type and color container a home owner must use for fuel, gasoline or diesel. There are rules for fuel "in commerce" but these rules are only for businesses. There are rules about how containers must be manufactured if you would like to produce and sell them. I've never seen an actual regulation that applies to me as average joe home owner. Until I see an actual rule my position is that you can use absolutely anything you like to buy and transport fuel.

Try ASTM F976-08 and F852-08. California EPA also lists the colors as Red, Yellow, and Blue.

 

[FTG-05]

Try ASTM F976-08 and F852-08. California EPA also lists the colors as Red, Yellow, and Blue.

The ASTM are specs for commercial manufacturers for fuel cans; they don't apply to fuel can users such as the people in this thread; hence use of former military jerry cans are legal (except for perhaps the PRK).

 

[PCABE5]

The ASTM are specs for commercial manufacturers for fuel cans; they don't apply to fuel can users such as the people in this thread; hence use of former military jerry cans are legal (except for perhaps the PRK).

A question asked in the thread was what is the required color of personal use fuel containers and where is that written. No one mentioned military jerry cans that I found. But since you brought it up, military have an exemption, so mil spec fuel cans can be different colors with stenciled letters on them stating what fuel is contained in the can. If you purchased a mil spec'd can and are using it for personal use you no longer have a mil exemption and need to color code your cans and ensure they meet DOT requirements.

ASTM is industry standards that manufacturers follow in the production of products for both commercial and private use and they do apply (that is why you find red, yellow and blue fuel can in the store). Federal and state agencies use many industry standards within the laws that they write and you must comply with those standards. Many states have taken this standard (also DOT standard) and placed into state laws. Now states are wasting their time writing laws because people still bring whatever they want to the gas station to fill it up. Wisconsin law requires red, yellow and blue containers.

Now a DOT approved can is different than an OSHA approved can. But then again these agencies are for two completely different areas of concern. A DOT can will not meet OSHA requirements but OSHA will recognize a DOT can as an approved container provided it is 5 gallons or less.

As far as a DOT approved container is must meet the following:

DOT-approved gas cans will be labeled certified to meet American National Standards Institute and American Society for Testing and Materials standard ANSI/ASTM F852/F976. This is for everyone including the homeowner.

With that said ASTM F852 requires a red container and F976 requires a blue for kerosene and yellow for diesel.

Now there is also new ASTM standards coming into play because the EPA is regulating emissions from these cans and now we have "spill proof" cans with cumbersome spouts and no vent holes that are covered under new ASTM standards.

 

[FTG-05]

I don't see what where the confusion is.

ASTM applies to manufacturers, not users, of portable fuel cans. Hence, someone who makes a fuel can to ASTM specs has to meet the color (and other) requirements for a portable fuel can.

Users can use whatever they want or can get (like military fuel cans).

The question, from one poster here, was where are the requirements that state that he, as a user, has to use a specific color fuel can for a specific fuel. Absent state regulations, there are no national requirements, USDOT doesn't have them - that I've found, if you have, post the USDOT regulation - and ASTM doesn't apply - for users.

Now clear?

 

[PCABE5]

FTG-05

I don't see what where the confusion is.

That was quite obvious.

ASTM applies to manufacturers, not users, of portable fuel cans. Hence, someone who makes a fuel can to ASTM specs has to meet the color (and other) requirements for a portable fuel can.

Wrong. If you want to make your own fuel container you have to comply with ASTM per the DOT. Then you will have to submit the container and specifications to your state approving agency for certification and if you meet the DOT, EPA, etc., requirements you can use it.

Also for me if I use the 55 gallon drum for my tractors fuel I do so at my own risk as my state laws do not allow it no matter what color or material. Other users should check there local and state laws concerning fuel storage on there properties.

Users can use whatever they want or can get (like military fuel cans).

This just isn't worth answering. Don't forget to save your used milk jugs.

The question, from one poster here, was where are the requirements that state that he, as a user, has to use a specific color fuel can for a specific fuel.

DOT requires portable fuel containers to comply with ASTM standards period. That means, red, yellow, blue.

Absent state regulations, there are no national requirements, USDOT doesn't have them - that I've found, if you have, post the USDOT regulation - and ASTM doesn't apply - for users.

First and for the last time, ASTM applies if you are going to make or use your own fuel container and for manufacturers of resale containers.

Every state has regulations governing the use of approved containers and I suggest that you call yours or look it up. The states regulations all/most come from the the federal regulations.

49 CFR is one of your national governing requirement on fuel containers by the DOT. Also do not forget the EPA has requirements as well and so does OSHA in their 1910 and 1926 series publications. For the purpose of this thread the PFC's under 5 gallons are not governed by OSHA but by DOT but the storage containers that are larger can be cover under many agencies, DOT, OSHA, EPA, and your state.


Now clear?

It has been crystal for me, but I hope it is for you now.

 

[SSdoxie]

"Users can use whatever they want or can get (like military fuel cans)."

"This just isn't worth answering. Don't forget to save your used milk jugs."

This reminded me of the guy I saw along I-40 this week. 5 miles from nearest exit, gas station and he is setting along the road put gas in his car out of a 2 liter soda bottle. Don't know if he carried in the car for emergencies or walked 5 mile (10 round trip) to fill it up and get going. If he carried it in the car he must never park in the hot sun.:laughing:

 

[crazyal]

I've often heard of gas stations not selling gas to people with non approved containers but I've used plenty of them in my life. For the first 20 years of my life I thought that was why they sold milk in the plastic jugs. You drink the milk, wash it out, and free gas container. You could easily tell what was in the jug, gas, 2 stroke, or off road diesel.

Now I don't know how they could stop you at the station. Almost every station now has card readers and one attendant in a booth, they are not going to come running out (or even pick their heads up out of the book they are reading). Some stations are even unmanned.

I have 4 red round plastic race jugs that I put off road in. They work great because most of my equipment has large fuel caps. Plus because they are a very different shape it's easy to tell what's in them.

Now I have a 12v pump in a 55 gallon drum and don't have to lift nothing but the lever to turn the pump on.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I agree that MOST statiions dont care what you are putting fuel in, but if you are transporting fuel on public roads it may cost you if you are stopped by highway patrol. Once you get it home, put it in what ever you want to from milk jugs on up, that is your choice. For myself, I have a 110 gallon fuel tank (painted white) that I store my diesel in and get home delivery with no problem. Most fuel storage tanks are painted silver or white to reflect the heat . I keep mine inside so that isnt an issue and with the 12 volt 15 GPM pump and 15 foot hose, it fuels my tractors pretty fast. I use a portable jumper battery for power and just keep it plugged into the wall socket when not using it. Works pretty well. I need to upgrade to a larger tank now that I have my larger tractor that takes 26 gallons to fuel it up. I am keeping an eye on craigslist for a 300 gallon outdoor storage tank cheap.

 

[LBrown59]

1**I've often heard of gas stations not selling gas to people with non approved containers.
2*Now I have a 12v pump in a 55 gallon drum and don't have to lift nothing but the lever to turn the pump on.

1*One time a station attendant refused to allow me to pump gas at their station .
My solution : Drove across the street to their competitor
and bough my gas there.
2* This is my 12v pump self loading Dual Barrel setup.

 

[crazyal]

Here's mine. I bought the pump because a local gas company expanded it's range and a number of people who had been burning oil found themselves with a tank half full of HHO. The pump screws right into the tank and in a few minutes I can empty a 275 gallon tank into a bunch of 55 gallon drums.

 

[dlmpsy]

I recently purchased a "Facet Fuel-It" pump and a portable battery from Amazon. So far I like it pretty good. It's not fast like a gas station type pump, but it's speed is accepatable to me...about 1 gpm according to the manufacturer. Hook it to your battery (or buy the optional 12 volt battery) or plug it in to a 12 volt cigarette style outlet. There is also a grounding strap. It's much better than those lousy new style fuel cans.

 

[moored4]

The only person I know that likes the new style can is the Guy that is selling them!

 

[beppington]

The only person I know that likes the new style can is the Guy that is selling them!

Well put! ... Oh, & actually tree huggin' hippies, prob do, too, until they see them in action & see that they leak. Mine do anyway. Never had a leak with the plain, old style, but now these new fangled ones do. Thank you Mr. Government.

 

[dlmpsy]

It's ironic the new cans are suppose to be better for the environment, but more fuel is spilled (which creates a fire hazard among other things). The design reminds me of something that was made based upon recommendations from a lawyer, environmentalist and the EPA. Designed to look good on paper, but never actually tested.

 

[moored4]

Since the new cans have come out, I've been saving our 5 gallon oil cans when we do a service on the tractors. The ones that have the pull out plastic spouts, the filling station does not care what we put our fuel in as long as it's not glass! We spill a lot less fuel using them than the new legal ones!
We even paint them one color for gas and diffrent one for diesel. I would tell you what colors we use but that would start whole another discussion! :laughing:

 

[MillWeld]

Anyone ever make their own tank?
Ian

I made my own from 1/8 inch steel plate primarily because I like to weld. I tested it for leaks by filling completely with water, pressurizing and looking for leaks, pump it out, reweld and repeat. Took only one reweld to be leak free. Has a vented screw cap but no drain to accidentally open. Put two wheels on it. It holds 20 gallons (gas) and has a manual hand pump. I hoist it up to the truck for filling at the gas station and off load the same way. I put a ground strap on it to prevent static. Was that really necessary? Flowing non-conductive material produces static (grain elevators are an extreme example) so I grounded it to the truck. The tires are conductive enough to dissipate the charge. It's what I've read. It's a very low risk chance of a spark but it was easy to add a ground strap. I've thought about being stopped with it but I take that risk because I never drive far with it.
Bob

 

[Hughman]

I use the 5 gal gerry can for fuel, but rather than pouring it, I use one of these siphon hoses. Very easy and no mess.
Amazon.com: SIPHON HOSE -- 6 FOOT not for food use: Automotive