Slopes and tractor tilt

[RoyJackson]

Guys, I had to post this.....
I ordered and installed an "inclinenometer" on my Kubota last week. The slopes that had initally concerned me are only 15%. (I had gotten used to them) The ones that made me pucker are 25% and MUST be taken in "turtle and 1st gear". A few times I would sink in a hole and it would go to 30% where I would immediately do the down hill steer manuever. I'm using % because I have no DEGREE key. Now that it is installed I will recommend it to everyone.....it's definately an asset and a tool.:thumbsup:

Good post...

 

[JWR]

Guys, I had to post this.....
I ordered and installed an "inclinenometer" on my Kubota last week. The slopes that had initally concerned me are only 15%. (I had gotten used to them) The ones that made me pucker are 25% and MUST be taken in "turtle and 1st gear". A few times I would sink in a hole and it would go to 30% where I would immediately do the down hill steer manuever. I'm using % because I have no DEGREE key. Now that it is installed I will recommend it to everyone.....it's definately an asset and a tool.:thumbsup:

A 25% slope is really very mild. It is not bravado but factual that farmers in hill country (including WV and a lot of VA) including myself operate routinely on 40% slopes and a little steeper. I have farm renters who bailed hay on several 40% slope areas which I would not try but they did. (New Holland 75 hp , wheels set very wide.)

I considered 3 brands of tractors in buying a new one (70-90hp class) this spring and Kubota was one of the 3 along with JD and MF. I love the Kubotas in most ways. I've heard it said that the John Deere is the Cadillac of tractors ... but the Kubota is the Mercedes ! There were a few obscure tech reasons why I did not buy the Kubota but one of the big and obvious ones is that the Japanese have not figured out that we have steep land over here. The rear wheels on most Kubotas cannot be set out enough for safe handling on steep ground. Looking at the picture of yours that seems to be the case. I own 2 smaller Kubotas that are great machines -- just not on steep ground.

 

[TripleR]

A 25% slope is really very mild. It is not bravado but factual that farmers in hill country (including WV and a lot of VA) including myself operate routinely on 40% slopes and a little steeper. I have farm renters who bailed hay on several 40% slope areas which I would not try but they did. (New Holland 75 hp , wheels set very wide.)

I considered 3 brands of tractors in buying a new one (70-90hp class) this spring and Kubota was one of the 3 along with JD and MF. I love the Kubotas in most ways. I've heard it said that the John Deere is the Cadillac of tractors ... but the Kubota is the Mercedes ! There were a few obscure tech reasons why I did not buy the Kubota but one of the big and obvious ones is that the Japanese have not figured out that we have steep land over here. The rear wheels on most Kubotas cannot be set out enough for safe handling on steep ground. Looking at the picture of yours that seems to be the case. I own 2 smaller Kubotas that are great machines -- just not on steep ground.

Our M8540 is great on steep ground.

 

[RoyJackson]

A 25% slope is really very mild...

That's about a 10-11 degree slope...not too bad (in dry conditions!!). But still intimidating, at least initially and still dangerous if not traveled with caution (so continue to use extreme caution, Boeing!!).
So, let's not make the mistake of confusing a 25% slope with a 25 degree slope.

 

[North Country]

That's about a 10-11 degree slope...not too bad (in dry conditions!!). But still intimidating, at least initially and still dangerous if not traveled with caution (so continue to use extreme caution, Boeing!!).
So, let's not make the mistake of confusing a 25% slope with a 25 degree slope.

He did say " I'm using % because I have no DEGREE key" so I got the impression that he was, in fact talking about a 25 DEGREE slope - and turning on 30 degree slopes!

 

[RoyJackson]

He did say " I'm using % because I have no DEGREE key" so I got the impression that he was, in fact talking about a 25 DEGREE slope - and turning on 30 degree slopes!

So did I, initially...and I don't know about you, but I think a 25 degree slope is very intimidating!!

If JWR's comment:

A 25% slope is really very mild. It is not bravado but factual that farmers in hill country

is actually refering to degrees rather then percent of slope...well, that "mild" description is borderline irresponsible.

 

[TripleR]

So did I, initially...and I don't know about you, but I think a 25 degree slope is very intimidating!!

If JWR's comment:
is actually refering to degrees rather then percent of slope...well, that "mild" description is borderline irresponsible.

We have two "hill farms" and I don't have an inclinometer, so I use the technical terms, "steep" and "too damned steep". I am constantly amazed at what some of the farmers in my area operate equipment on, but most use tractors better suited to it than what most of us own.

 

[eastexan]

We have two "hill farms" and I don't have an inclinometer, so I use the technical terms, "steep" and "too damned steep". I am constantly amazed at what some of the farmers in my area operate equipment on, but most use tractors better suited to it than what most of us own.

Do you live in one of the areas where the Ozarks meets the low Mississippi delta area? You mention steep hill farms, but also from your pics there is flat land.

I was on vacation about 45 years ago, and was going W to E thru the Missouri Ozarks. Somewhere, I think it was around Poplar Bluff, I crossed a river (Black River?), and the hills suddenly ended and it dropped down into flat cotton fields as far as I could see with drainage canals criscrossing the land.
We also crossed the Mississippi on a ferry over into Tennessee then on to Memphis. Had a real good vacation that year.

 

[TripleR]

Do you live in one of the areas where the Ozarks meets the low Mississippi delta area? You mention steep hill farms, but also from your pics there is flat land.

I was on vacation about 45 years ago, and was going W to E thru the Missouri Ozarks. Somewhere, I think it was around Poplar Bluff, I crossed a river (Black River?), and the hills suddenly ended and it dropped down into flat cotton fields as far as I could see with drainage canals criscrossing the land.
We also crossed the Mississippi on a ferry over into Tennessee then on to Memphis. Had a real good vacation that year.

We have four "farms", 331, 130, 89, and 20 acres. This part of the state is commonly referred to as "Swamp East Missouri", because prior to the formation of the "Little River Drainage District", much of the land was under water.
The Little River Drainage District (1907-1989 history) - Chaffee Historical Society

We have a combination of "hill ground" and "flat land farms". The farm on which I live has 150 acres of fairly flat land and the rest in woods. We took 40 acres of the hill ground out of production about twenty years ago and reforested it.

I lived in Poplar Bluff for a while and then worked New Madrid County where we joked we didn't declare a probationer or parolee an absconder for two days because you could still see him running between the cotton rows.:laughing:

Our "hills" are nothing compared to the SW part of the state though.

 

[JWR]

So did I, initially...and I don't know about you, but I think a 25 degree slope is very intimidating!!

If JWR's comment:
is actually refering to degrees rather then percent of slope...well, that "mild" description is borderline irresponsible.

I repeat: A 25% (I said percent) slope is mild by most standards. A 25% slope is around 15 degrees. Most farmers have been over slopes of that steepness and never even thought about it. I never mentioned degrees in my previous comments.

I readily agree that a 25 degree slope (somewhere between 40 and 50%) would be intimidating and probably inadvisable if you were going across it as opposed to up and down. Slopes that steep are usually handled up and down, not across, as I'm sure you know.

 

[JWR]

I will address going across a slope. I have steep ground and have been considering a new tractor for mowing. I first found my greatest slope. I took an angle finder and a straight 4 foot piece of 2 x 4. I found one spot had an angle of 30 degrees. I divided that by 90 to get a slope of 33 percent. Ventrac and powertrac are the only tractors to advertise 40 percent slope or greater. These are with dual wheels. Steiner only advertises 30 degree slope. the problem is not rollover but oil to engine parts.

Over the hill in Phillipi huh ? My ground is near Lost Creek but I live over 300 mi away. A couple of quick comments:

1) You can't divide 30 deg by 90 and get % slope. A 30 degree slope is over 50% , almost 60%. Percent slope is "rise divided by run." For example a 25 inch rise at the end of a level 2x4 62 inches long computes to be 25/62 = 40%. (roughly 25 degrees.) Thus the Steiner advertisement of 30 degrees is considerably steeper than the 40 % slope you said the others claim. Five or ten degrees at that point is a bunch. That's partly why expressing slope as a percentage is popular.
2) The world champ of mowing steep ground -- bar none -- is the Aebi Swiss made machine. See Aebi Tractors front rear implement carrier steep slopes land care . Snowshoe used them at one time and maybe still do to mow ski slopes in the summer. Those are incredible machines designed from the ground up for steepness. Ones I saw used a Kubota motor BESIDE the operator for getting a low center of gravity. Have PTOs and 3 pt hitches both front and back. In later years they make them in larger sizes too, like 90 hp.
3) Obviously in your situation you have to use 4wd or be hung all the time. I'm guessing one of the mainstream brand 4wd small tractors (Kubota or Deere or Massey) would do well for you and have the added bonus of handling 3pt hitch implements when needed. A problem is that most of them are not designed for really steep ground, as you said. The key is spacing the rear wheels apart and some models are not even adjustable. That may well leave a niche for Steiner, Ventrac, etc.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Guys, I had to post this.....
I ordered and installed an "inclinenometer" on my Kubota last week. [I'm using % because I have no DEGREE key.] The slopes that had initally concerned me are only 15%. (I had gotten used to them) The ones that made me pucker are 25% and MUST be taken in "turtle and 1st gear". A few times I would sink in a hole and it would go to 30% where I would immediately do the down hill steer manuever. Now that it is installed I will recommend it to everyone.....it's definately an asset and a tool.:thumbsup:

I repeat: A 25% (I said percent) slope is mild by most standards. A 25% slope is around 15 degrees. Most farmers have been over slopes of that steepness and never even thought about it. I never mentioned degrees in my previous comments.

I readily agree that a 25 degree slope (somewhere between 40 and 50%) would be intimidating and probably inadvisable if you were going across it as opposed to up and down. Slopes that steep are usually handled up and down, not across, as I'm sure you know.

I reorganized Boeings post with critical info leading. Look for it.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

[2) The world champ of mowing steep ground -- bar none -- is the Aebi Swiss made machine. See Aebi Tractors front rear implement carrier steep slopes land care . Snowshoe used them at one time and maybe still do to mow ski slopes in the summer. Those are incredible machines designed from the ground up for steepness. Ones I saw used a Kubota motor BESIDE the operator for getting a low center of gravity. Have PTOs and 3 pt hitches both front and back. In later years they make them in larger sizes too, like 90 hp.

Thanks for the link.
Their lead in page says "work safely on 40% slopes". What a terrible advertising error.
larry

 

[JWR]

Thanks for the link.
Their lead in page says "work safely on 40% slopes". What a terrible advertising error.
larry

Good catch ! Surely they MEANT 40 degrees not 40%.

 

[smiley]

Good catch ! Surely they MEANT 40 degrees not 40%.

That Aebi tractor is awesome and the slope they're showing it on is definitely 40 degrees, probably closer to 45 (100%). Even dozers can get squirrely working across slopes like that. We would generally keep a berm on the lower side and work it downhill or do it all up and down. We had one operator Old Sy, that worked across a 150 ft loose shale slope so steep that no one else wanted to get on it. Every time it'd get loose you could hear him cussing all the way to the bottom, because he'd have to head it downhill then track it over 1/4 mile around to get back on top. It was so loose you couldn't work it up and down.

You can make a simple slope gauge using a large mechanical drawing type protractor (or reasonable facsimile) by mounting it upside down with a piece of coat hanger dangling from the upper center point. Crude but it works and will give you an idea of your slopes. I did that when first learning to grade many moons ago.

 

[ducks13]

Why do you says 40% is a ad error? That is about what I'd guess the slope they show on linked page with the front mount fail mower and dual wheels front and rear. Do they show something steeper somewhere? Do you think that is much steeper than 40%? I'm not really experienced at judging grades but they always seem to look steeper than they really are.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Why do you says 40% is a ad error?

Because they say the product is specially designed to be safe on steep slopes. You dont have to pay premium for safety on a 40% slope. A garden tractor will do that.
larry

 

[RoyJackson]

Because they say the product is specially designed to be safe on steep slopes. You dont have to pay premium for safety on a 40% slope. A garden tractor will do that.
larry

40% slope is about 18 degrees...definitely doable on dry grass and using caution.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'm using % because I have no DEGREE key.

For the degree symbol, hold the ALT key down and type in 0176. For example, 40ｰ.
However, using these hotkeys doesn't always display correctly on TBN (as above).

 

[ducks13]

The garden tractor at 40% isn't exactly what I'd call safe. Doable with caution sure but if you find a hole that use to have tree stump in it you suddenly you pick up 10 degrees. 40% is about 22 degrees, tack on 5 or 10 degrees for safety and you are talking about a 50-60% slope. See Slope - Degree, Gradient and Grade Converter for a nice table that goes both ways. I think their ad is correct, 40% slope is all I'd want the liability for. 40 degrees equals 84% slope would you want the liability for that? Let someone take it steeper if they think they can but I wouldn't call it safe for advertising purposes. What does JD advertise as safe for a garden tractor?