running high gpm attachments out front?

[Builder]

I cannot afford a skid steer in this crap economy, so this looks like the way to go.
My biggest fear (other than purchase price) is backing into something and trashing the unit (backing into a tree while cutting brush).

Mind if I ask you some questions?

Is the unit really easy on/off or is it a knuckle buster?
Did you run the hoses to the front yourself?
I would think you'd have to run them just like I ran my 3rd function hoses so you can lift the FEL mounted attachment without worrying about popping a hydraulic line?
I thought the Michigan unit didn't offer a cooling package? or did I miss something?

 

[leonz]

Leon - I'm going to assume, though perhaps incorrectly, that since the fan is electrical, that the fan is thermostatically controlled. Thus avoiding the overly cooled issue. But your point is well taken - one should ask that question first.

Yes I would definetly pester them with this question as cold oil is an absolute no no!!!, The problem is loss in efficiency due to hose runs to and from the implement as well as available torque to the implement.

If grsthegreat could post a few close up good pictures of the unit he owns that would help folks a lot.

 

[Hollow]

Have you thought about getting a front 3pt hitch and PTO?

 

[Hollow]

Frontlinkage KUBOTA en Front PTO Systems - Zuidberg Frontline Systems

The lower arms fold up so a loader can be used on the tractor as well.

 

[grsthegreat]

Yes, i ran the hoses from underneath the cab up the arms and down to the bucket. I made my own mounting brackets for the hose to mount thru the winter. I remove the entire thing come spring. I could leave it on 24/7, but i really don't need it in the summer (for now??).

The hose kit comes with both front and rear quick connects so you can drop off the powersupply anytime you want as follows.

1. Lower unit onto self mounted adjustable skids.
2. Unhook 3 point hitch
3. Unhook Quick connect from 2 hoses (supply and return) at the hydraulic tank (about 10 seconds)
4. Remove hydraulic pump (this unit slips over drawbar and slips into splines. Then theirs a bolt on bracket that secures it. Loosen t bolts and slip it off, then remove pump...about 1 minute tops)
5. drive away


i have only a few pics.. ill get some more tomorrow and post them if youd like. These show the brackets before powder coated everything

 

[grsthegreat]

OK, here's what I don't get. Why is it so much more to buy an assembled unit than to buy the pieces? Just looking at Surplus Center, I see that you can get a 9.74 ci motor with a splined shaft rated at 20.8 HP continuous for $225(Surplus Center - 9.74 cu in VON RUDEN MLHS160S4A HYD MOTOR .

A PTO mount pump that's 9.9 ci and rated for 21 gpm and 32 HP is $526(Surplus Center - 9.9 CU IN PRINCE HC-PTO-1AC PTO PUMP CI 540 RPM).

A 25 gallon reservoir is $227 (Surplus Center - 25 GALLON HYDRAULIC RESERVOIR)

Allow another $500 for hoses, fittings and a valve and you're out the door under $1500. With the pump and the motor having the same displacement you don't even really need a valve, they will spin at the same rate and you control the motor by controlling the PTO.

Am I missing something?

By the way I think this is a great idea and it's something I've given some thought to in the past.


* I realize this is only rated for 474 RPM continuous, 563 intermittent, so it's not quite right for this application, I just picked it as a quick illustration of what's available.

also.. my unit is 3,000 PSI. the pumps and equipment your specking out is 2,200 PSI. None of the pumps at surplus center will go 3,000 PSI. These eaton pumps are real spendy.

 

[leonz]

Frontlinkage KUBOTA en Front PTO Systems - Zuidberg Frontline Systems

The lower arms fold up so a loader can be used on the tractor as well.

I love those front drive kits especially the bigger horsepower units.

The Pronovost units go up to 50-60 horsepower and can be set up with the mid PTO. I am sure the Erskine's rear P.T.O., to front P.T.O., shaft can be used with it as well.

 

[Builder]

Have you thought about getting a front 3pt hitch and PTO?

Oh, now you've done it! Just when I thought the PTO pump was the way to go. :laughing:

Looks exotic expensive, but very cool.

Doe the front PTO work from a gearbox mounted to the rear PTO? Or is the rear PTO left free for other implements?

 

[leonz]

The large horsepower units of which there about 6 manufacturers worldwide are connected to the front end of the crank shaft and or flywheel with a reversing gear set up and are installed with thier own control set up to be operated from the cab.

The Pronovost units are set up with thier own reversing gear box in the mounting frame and are driven off the Mid Point P.T.O., BUT saying that I see no reason you could not purchase an Erskine drive unit with a front mount as the gearing is reversed with a triple gear set up coming off the rear P.T.O. too.

BUT if you have a mid PTO or can add one on your mule(depending on cost of course you can use a Pronovost kit or buy the pronovost gearbox to reverse the Erskine proeller shaft for the implement. Its still less money than a hydraulic drive and has fewer parts AND the drive is direct from the Power Take Off with near zero losses in efficiency.

The front mounts off the crank shaft allow you to keep the rear Power Take Off free for other implements; The Erskine unit is a simple on and off to free up the rear Power Take Off so its a toss up as far as what one can do BUT it would allow you to run a heavy flail mower up front like the you you currently own and a Caroni four row grass finish mower behind you at the same time witha bit more fuel consumption.

 

[Builder]

Just got a nice "education" from Zuidberg.
Wow, talk about cool high tech tractor gear.....

 

[Hollow]

No, the PTO unit attaches to the front of the engine and is electronically engaged from a switch on the dash. Completely independent from anything else on the tractor.

 

[Builder]

No, the PTO unit attaches to the front of the engine and is electronically engaged from a switch on the dash. Completely independent from anything else on the tractor.

Just talked to them this afternoon. $12,000. :laughing:
Awesome system though. Anyone would love to have something like that.

 

[Hollow]

Wow! I priced one years ago for a ford 5000 I had and I'm thinking it was $3800 (I can't remember which brand it was), but that was back in 2001. That was just the unit, that wasn't an installed price or anything...

 

[leonz]

Check with an Erskine dealer or call the Pronovost folks in Quebec to get accurate information about your tractor and one of thier front hitch kits.

You will probably find the Erskine units more economical as they have the reversing gears and a propeller shaft under the tractor to the front through thier hitch to the implement.

 

[kubotakid USA]

OK, here's what I don't get. Why is it so much more to buy an assembled unit than to buy the pieces? Just looking at Surplus Center, I see that you can get a 9.74 ci motor with a splined shaft rated at 20.8 HP continuous for $225(Surplus Center - 9.74 cu in VON RUDEN MLHS160S4A HYD MOTOR .

A PTO mount pump that's 9.9 ci and rated for 21 gpm and 32 HP is $526(Surplus Center - 9.9 CU IN PRINCE HC-PTO-1AC PTO PUMP CI 540 RPM).

A 25 gallon reservoir is $227 (Surplus Center - 25 GALLON HYDRAULIC RESERVOIR)

Allow another $500 for hoses, fittings and a valve and you're out the door under $1500. With the pump and the motor having the same displacement you don't even really need a valve, they will spin at the same rate and you control the motor by controlling the PTO.

Am I missing something?

By the way I think this is a great idea and it's something I've given some thought to in the past.


* I realize this is only rated for 474 RPM continuous, 563 intermittent, so it's not quite right for this application, I just picked it as a quick illustration of what's available.

what your missing is reality, surplus store is like a industerial dollor store, they buy alota surplus stuff, and like the dollor store, maybe it stuff cleaned up after a truck wreck,..John Deere/ Land Pride, and the likes dont use surplus parts to build there equipment,.

 

[Hollow]

what your missing is reality, surplus store is like a industerial dollor store, they buy alota surplus stuff, and like the dollor store, maybe it stuff cleaned up after a truck wreck,..John Deere/ Land Pride, and the likes dont use surplus parts to build there equipment,.

Another problem with that pump is it only goes up to 2000 psi, a 3000+ psi pump is much more expensive.

 

[Builder]

Once you look at the front mount PTO & 3 pt, you won't have a lot of high regard left for the PTO pumps.
Leonz,
I'm not crazy about having the front PTO with underframe driveshaft running to the back. Looks like lost power and a clearance problem. Plus you can't use any rear PTO implements at the same time. Would be cheaper, though.

It's been an education gentlemen. Really got a lot from this thread. :thumbsup:
Now I gotta try to make some money. :laughing:

 

[Builder]

Wow! I priced one years ago for a ford 5000 I had and I'm thinking it was $3800 (I can't remember which brand it was), but that was back in 2001. That was just the unit, that wasn't an installed price or anything...

The 3pt is 5K and the PTO system is over 5K. Then you gotta remove front axle, cut frame and remove front of engine clip on tractor to install it. :laughing:

Still a lot cheaper than buying a used skid steer.

 

[grsthegreat]

Once you look at the front mount PTO & 3 pt, you won't have a lot of high regard left for the PTO pumps.
Leonz,
I'm not crazy about having the front PTO with underframe driveshaft running to the back. Looks like lost power and a clearance problem. Plus you can't use any rear PTO implements at the same time. Would be cheaper, though.

It's been an education gentlemen. Really got a lot from this thread. :thumbsup:
Now I gotta try to make some money. :laughing:

im not sure why you wouldnt like the idea of a pto powered hydraulic pump???

i looked into the front mount pto driven option for my snowblower, but i have to move large 5' tall piles of snow when my buildings shed off. I have 3 outbuildings that have to be cleaned when they shed so the animals can enter and leave and so i can move my equipment for my business around.

The loader mounted blower can blow at any height above the ground.

once you take this into consideration along with the 3,000 PSI, 15 GPH output of the power pack, i found that the rear hydraulic system was better than the front mount.... for my applications.

Now i can always add a hydraulic loader mounted post hole digger or ???? in the future. I can now officially run ANY skid mount piece of equipment i can find... and there are soo many nice looking toys out there.
as in the picture below... just try to do this with a front mount 3 point or front mount snowblower

 

[Builder]

im not sure why you wouldnt like the idea of a pto powered hydraulic pump???

i looked into the front mount pto driven option for my snowblower, but i have to move large 5' tall piles of snow when my buildings shed off. I have 3 outbuildings that have to be cleaned when they shed so the animals can enter and leave and so i can move my equipment for my business around.

The loader mounted blower can blow at any height above the ground.

once you take this into consideration along with the 3,000 PSI, 15 GPH output of the power pack, i found that the rear hydraulic system was better than the front mount.... for my applications.

Now i can always add a hydraulic loader mounted post hole digger or ???? in the future. I can now officially run ANY skid mount piece of equipment i can find... and there are soo many nice looking toys out there.
as in the picture below... just try to do this with a front mount 3 point or front mount snowblower

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting your type of system down. I was looking at a 25 GPM model that will run some pretty stout skid steer attachments. I guess the front 3 pt just seems to make a tractor so versatile (guess that's why they came up with the tractor name "Versatile").

I'm looking at it more for a mower than a snowblower. Gotta watch the weight of the mower. My loader won't lift the heaviest ones. When you lift mowers that high, you gotta watch for flying debris...

The other disadvantage of the pump is the rear of the tractor is now taken, no attachments can be run off the back. The front 3 pt allows both ends of the tractor to have a attachment mounted to it.