I'm considering having a solar panel electrical system installed.

Alien · Mar 22, 2012

Plenty of interesting info on this forum
Wind and solar power - Energy Matters Forum

techman · Mar 22, 2012

Marty:

As an important step, google and go to pvwatts. It is a DOE site and will give you a very accurate estimate of your power generation expectations. It will take into account your location, efficiencies and other factors and give you an estimate of monthly potput.

paul

dynasim · Mar 22, 2012

Myth #2: Manufacturing solar panels creates pollution and uses more energy than the panels can generate over their lifetimes. Most solar panels pay back the energy used to make them in about one year. And with the panels generally lasting 30 years, they producing free and clean electricity for 29 of those years.

Solar-panel manufacturing is regulated by safety and pollution control standards, and it does create unwanted byproducts. But for each kilowatt generated by solar power rather than fossil fuels, the Earth avoids 9 kg of sulfuric oxide, 16 kg of nitrous oxide, and between 600 and 2,300 kg of carbon dioxide each year.

This is from post 59 in this link

So, Rob knows the manufacturing process for PV cells. He also has a secret recipe for creating cells using ~ 2kwhrs per watt of rated power production.

This would lead to a cell cost of ~$0.40/ watt. This is a conservative numbers since the manufacturing of such devices could be automated if sold on a large scale. At this cost level, the electricity they produced would be cheaper than coal and nuclear power.

If he has such a recipe, I suggest he share it with me, and we will both become billionaires, and can cover the state of Nevada with solar cells. If this is true, I will quit my job, and pursue this for the rest of my life.

The fact that such material is seriously quoted by the pursuers of the progress movement is astounding, particularly when it the pusher claims himself to be an expert in such things.

I don't think I will be quitting my job anytime soon.

Chris

dynasim · Mar 22, 2012

I should add that if cells were at 40c/watt, they wouldn't need to be subsidized.

Chris

dynasim · Mar 22, 2012

Maybe I should predict the response:

The big oil companies know how to build them that cheap, but won't let the public know how to do it.

chris

LD1 · Mar 23, 2012

techman said:
Marty:

As an important step, google and go to pvwatts. It is a DOE site and will give you a very accurate estimate of your power generation expectations. It will take into account your location, efficiencies and other factors and give you an estimate of monthly potput.

paul

I e-mailed my state DOE about some incentives and stuff, and they linked me to that site as well.

According to it, with my 11cent per kwh rate, a 5kw rated system is only going to save me $619/year. And at ~$15k to install ($3/watt) payback is going to be well over 20 years

And thats probabally a pretty realistic figure. They break it down by month. And according to Rob-d's chart, it appears his 6.4kw system is on pace to do 600-700kwh this month. And the pvwatts site lists a 5kw system producing 507kwh for march. So thats probabally pretty close to real world #'s.

Not sure how much location changes it, but If I use a 6.4kw system like rob's, it is showing 648kwh for march.

Glad I found that site with some realistic #'s. Because a novice like me is looking at a 5kw system and thinking it "should" be capable of ~1500kwh or so a month. thats 5kwh x 10hrs/day x 30 days. Obviously in optimal conditions. I didnt realize the inefficiencies were that high. Cause pvwatts says in the peak summer months, a 5kwh system is only making 633kwh.

Even if my electric coop did net metering, I doubt it would matter much on a system that small. and at $15k, even if I take 30% off for the credit, I am still looking at 10k+. And that is still almost a 20 year payback time.

It just isnt there for me yet.

MotorSeven · Mar 23, 2012

I looked hard at solar over 2 years ago. A grid tied system was $28K then. The same system now is about $19K and I am again considering it since my power company is offering a buy back incentive that is very attractive.

Backwoods Solar has a Grid Tie calculator based on your location which factors in incentives:
Backwoods Solar Electric Systems

Click on the blue "Grid tie sizing calculator"

techman · Mar 23, 2012

Here are a few shots of what I put in.

Also keep in mind you also make money selling renewable energy credits.

paul

Rob-D · Mar 23, 2012

dynasim said:
This is from post 59 in this link

So, Rob knows the manufacturing process for PV cells. He also has a secret recipe for creating cells using ~ 2kwhrs per watt of rated power production.

This would lead to a cell cost of ~$0.40/ watt. This is a conservative numbers since the manufacturing of such devices could be automated if sold on a large scale. At this cost level, the electricity they produced would be cheaper than coal and nuclear power.

If he has such a recipe, I suggest he share it with me, and we will both become billionaires, and can cover the state of Nevada with solar cells. If this is true, I will quit my job, and pursue this for the rest of my life.

The fact that such material is seriously quoted by the pursuers of the progress movement is astounding, particularly when it the pusher claims himself to be an expert in such things.

I don't think I will be quitting my job anytime soon.

Chris

I'd like to see the math behind your assumptions.

Rob

NorTracNY · Mar 23, 2012

LD1 said:
I e-mailed my state DOE about some incentives and stuff, and they linked me to that site as well.

According to it, with my 11cent per kwh rate, a 5kw rated system is only going to save me $619/year. And at ~$15k to install ($3/watt) payback is going to be well over 20 years

And thats probabally a pretty realistic figure. They break it down by month. And according to Rob-d's chart, it appears his 6.4kw system is on pace to do 600-700kwh this month. And the pvwatts site lists a 5kw system producing 507kwh for march. So thats probabally pretty close to real world #'s.

Not sure how much location changes it, but If I use a 6.4kw system like rob's, it is showing 648kwh for march.

Glad I found that site with some realistic #'s. Because a novice like me is looking at a 5kw system and thinking it "should" be capable of ~1500kwh or so a month. thats 5kwh x 10hrs/day x 30 days. Obviously in optimal conditions. I didnt realize the inefficiencies were that high. Cause pvwatts says in the peak summer months, a 5kwh system is only making 633kwh.

Even if my electric coop did net metering, I doubt it would matter much on a system that small. and at $15k, even if I take 30% off for the credit, I am still looking at 10k+. And that is still almost a 20 year payback time.

It just isnt there for me yet.

You're probably right. I found that it was most cost efficient to buy a system that was going to just cover my yearly needs, unless your yearly needs mean a system which exceeded the maximum residential rebates. For my the payback was going to be about 15 years, until soooo many people took NY up on the rebate that they lowered it. This is all with Net-metering. I don't see how you could get a reasonable payback without net-metering. For me, it was the new leasing that made this a great deal.