Do you have a clue how big the arctic ocean is.... It would be like me peeing in the backyard pool.
Global Warming?
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Do you have a clue how big the arctic ocean is.... It would be like me peeing in the backyard pool.
Wrong again Eddie, March was the warmest ever recorded. With this you can expect cold records too, it's more than just warming.
I'd like to see your figures on lobby money, and let's include ALL the energy advocates not just oil. Fracking companies pumped a billion and a half bucks into DC.
Now we gave corporations the vote, anyone think that is the most dangerous thing democracy can experience? I do, now we have a corporate oligarchy running this country. The bad information on GW benefits energy and that's the people putting it out. It's not about Al Gore, it's about the environment we live in and the planet we live on.
Who here thinks we won't ever run out of fossil fuel? The last time we found any appreciable oil was the year we went to the moon. You think oil is somehow miraculously going to get cheaper? Good luck with that! So now OPEC decides that the amount of oil a country can sell is equal to its reserves, anyone want to guess the year they said that? Take a look at how all of a sudden everyone's reserves doubled and tripled, that was in 2005.
The bottom line is we have to stop abusing the energy on this planet, that is the only solution. We've been living in a false dream since the Industrial Revolution started, those days are over. Figure out a way to live without your excesses. How many of you use over a MWH a month of electricity? Who do you think is paying for that abusive waste? How about the planet? The US uses 1/4 of the worlds resources, we're the worlds per capita biggest polluter.
Anyone think that's not affecting the planet? Not polluting the planet? CC? Hey, we'll bury ourselves in pollution before we drown from the sea rising. We'll stop the Gulf Stream and destroy half the fish in the ocean before CC freezes us. We'll have no rain forest and our crops will be so poisoned by Monsanto's glyphosate that our children won't live as long as we do. Everyone who thinks ingesting herbicides and pesticides is a good thing raise your hand... if you can! The cancer rates are so high that when I talk to the nurses at the local hospital about cancer I get the 'deer in the headlights' look. Half the men over 55 have prostate cancer, that's because cancer affects reproductive systems most dramatically.
If we got any stupider we would forget how to stand erect yet we keep polluting and sticking our heads in the sand. We want someone to tell us that there is no GW and pollution isn't a problems so we can continue our ways. It's the "kings new clothes" syndrome, no one wants to admit the planet is in a downward spiral.
Rob
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Short Game
Veteran Member
Good to see you again, Rob.
I started saying about thirty years ago, "if you're going to be a one issue voter, it had better be the environment." It's looking more like we've waited too long to do something effective about it, while we continue to wait. But then, there's money to be made by the poison powers.
I started saying about thirty years ago, "if you're going to be a one issue voter, it had better be the environment." It's looking more like we've waited too long to do something effective about it, while we continue to wait. But then, there's money to be made by the poison powers.
Big energy wants everyone to talk about GW because it is a complex relatively unresolvable issue at this point in history. A hundred years from now we may say," How could they miss this?" but right now it's easy to obscure the issue and that's exactly what big corporations want.
Pollution is a fact and it is affecting our health (the WHO has already established this). Basically corporate America is slapping us with their left hand while we're looking at the their right one. The next clever thing they do is link a nebulous disbelief in CC to excuse and justify excessive energy use, 'if GW is not really happening than we have no worries about energy and pollution'.. 'pollution is not really an issue and oil will never run out', our abuse of energy is not a problem, 'let's keep doing it'. And every gallon of gas we put in our cars pollutes this planet more and pours more money into the corporate lobby machine. And everyday you have less rights less money to work with and the planet goes further down hill.
Which always brings us back to individual freedom and how to attain it. It's not a right to carry a gun, that's another 'carrot' that you're being fed out of your own gullibility. Freedom is autonomy from the forces that control us. If I can live without pouring every penny I have into a machine that wants to own me then that's less power anyone has over me.
'Alternate energy doesn't work.' So who wants you to believe that? The people selling you energy! The last thing they want is for you to stop buying their product. So what does that do for those of you who think alternate energy is another Al Gore hoax? It makes you a pawn of the people controlling you... congratulations!
Rob
Actually if you look at man's activity over the last couple of hundred years since we have been using coal, oil, etc. you will see that man has influenced this planet more and in more ways than has ever been seen or recorded since man has been observing history. We live in an unprecedented time and have no real reference to compare our effects on the planet today as, say, during the first 1000 or 1500 years after Christ. In the last 10 years we have used more energy than we did in that entire period I'd say. What did they have as energy then? Whale oil, maybe kerosene lamps and wood?
One person can do about 100 watt/hours of work. (try it, sit on a bike with a generator and see how much energy it takes to make 100 watts for an hour, I'll bet most people couldn't do it) but let's say that one person can put out 100 watt hours for 8 hours which is an exorbitant amount of energy, by the way. So that = 800 Wh. A gallon of gas is about 10 KWh if I remember so 10e3/800 = 12-1/2 days of one man working (it's probably more like 20 days but we'll be conservative here)
So think about this, your wife goes to the store for a gallon of milk, picks up the kids from school and runs a few other errands. Maybe she uses 2 or 3 gallons of gas at 20 to 25 mpgs running around. So now we're talking about one person working a couple of months and we're not including the energy the farmer used to plow his fields to make that milk or the energy to pasteurize it and bring it to market. The energy to light the market, freezers, the energy to maintain the roads, stop lights, materials to make the carton, etc.
At the end of the day most families use more energy than a family 300 or 400 years ago used in a couple of decades if not a life time. That's how much energy we use without realizing it.
What's that effect on the environment? Monumental, so we can't say that 10 or 20 years is too small a period of time because time is not linear, its been distorted by our tremendous energy demands and usage, unprecedented in history, even 100 years ago.
Now, who here thinks we can keep doing this indefinitely?
Rob
powerpace
Platinum Member
Isn't that Darwinism at work? The world survives on what will adapt to the environment.
powerpace
Platinum Member
Hi
By the same logic if you are 50 years old and get a tooth ache, and its worse the next day and even worse the next day and bloody painful the day after - don't worry - a trend of 4 days is not significant in 50 years of your existence
Mike
Yes you had no pain for 50 years prior and no pain after that trend of 4 days. Ten years later you have another 4 days of pain. That's a cycle.
powerpace
Platinum Member
Virtually all of the oil and natural gas we use today was formed millions and millions of years previous. We will never reach that level of oil formation again.
Geologic time scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Geologic time scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In a linear time curve maybe but no in a logarithmic one like we are experiencing. And aren't you over looking the possibility of the tooth ache causing a bacterial infection that destroys your heart valve and kills you? So maybe in ten years there is no you.
My point is that we are existing in a paradigm that has never happened before in recorded history. So maybe we better address that tooth ache!
Rob
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