Global Warming?

[tcartwri]

You don't suppose all those volcanoes under the ice could help melt it, do ya? I mean, if the ocean temperature by one of these can reach 573 degrees F, 'twice' as warm as boiling water, that might cause some ice on the surface to be affected...

Do you have a clue how big the arctic ocean is.... It would be like me peeing in the backyard pool.

 

[Rob-D]

Bird, that storm is on it's way here!! Our local weather forecasters are in there little weatherman heaven reporting all the doom and gloom of this storm. It seems the worse it is, the more exited they get!!!

Steph says that is one of the kids say they want to be an meteoroligst, she'll beat it out of them. hahahahaha So far they have been dead wrong on just about everything that supposed to happen. Now I'm waiting around until 4pm when it's suppposed to drop twenty degrees.

I don't believe in man made global warming, nor do I think it's anything more than a way to make money for those makeing the warning. Global warming lobiest now spend more money than big oil.

Have you ever noticed that even as warm as it was last year and even this year that we never broke any record temps? All the high tempature records were set in the 30's give or take a decade. Same thing with hurricanes. Not one this year and all the records for those were in the 30's too.


Eddie

Wrong again Eddie, March was the warmest ever recorded. With this you can expect cold records too, it's more than just warming.

I'd like to see your figures on lobby money, and let's include ALL the energy advocates not just oil. Fracking companies pumped a billion and a half bucks into DC.
Now we gave corporations the vote, anyone think that is the most dangerous thing democracy can experience? I do, now we have a corporate oligarchy running this country. The bad information on GW benefits energy and that's the people putting it out. It's not about Al Gore, it's about the environment we live in and the planet we live on.
Who here thinks we won't ever run out of fossil fuel? The last time we found any appreciable oil was the year we went to the moon. You think oil is somehow miraculously going to get cheaper? Good luck with that! So now OPEC decides that the amount of oil a country can sell is equal to its reserves, anyone want to guess the year they said that? Take a look at how all of a sudden everyone's reserves doubled and tripled, that was in 2005.

The bottom line is we have to stop abusing the energy on this planet, that is the only solution. We've been living in a false dream since the Industrial Revolution started, those days are over. Figure out a way to live without your excesses. How many of you use over a MWH a month of electricity? Who do you think is paying for that abusive waste? How about the planet? The US uses 1/4 of the worlds resources, we're the worlds per capita biggest polluter.

Anyone think that's not affecting the planet? Not polluting the planet? CC? Hey, we'll bury ourselves in pollution before we drown from the sea rising. We'll stop the Gulf Stream and destroy half the fish in the ocean before CC freezes us. We'll have no rain forest and our crops will be so poisoned by Monsanto's glyphosate that our children won't live as long as we do. Everyone who thinks ingesting herbicides and pesticides is a good thing raise your hand... if you can! The cancer rates are so high that when I talk to the nurses at the local hospital about cancer I get the 'deer in the headlights' look. Half the men over 55 have prostate cancer, that's because cancer affects reproductive systems most dramatically.

If we got any stupider we would forget how to stand erect yet we keep polluting and sticking our heads in the sand. We want someone to tell us that there is no GW and pollution isn't a problems so we can continue our ways. It's the "kings new clothes" syndrome, no one wants to admit the planet is in a downward spiral.

Rob

 

[Short Game]

Good to see you again, Rob.

I started saying about thirty years ago, "if you're going to be a one issue voter, it had better be the environment." It's looking more like we've waited too long to do something effective about it, while we continue to wait. But then, there's money to be made by the poison powers.

 

[Rob-D]

Good to see you again, Rob.

I started saying about thirty years ago, "if you're going to be a one issue voter, it had better be the environment." It's looking more like we've waited too long to do something effective about it, while we continue to wait. But then, there's money to be made by the poison powers.

Big energy wants everyone to talk about GW because it is a complex relatively unresolvable issue at this point in history. A hundred years from now we may say," How could they miss this?" but right now it's easy to obscure the issue and that's exactly what big corporations want.

Pollution is a fact and it is affecting our health (the WHO has already established this). Basically corporate America is slapping us with their left hand while we're looking at the their right one. The next clever thing they do is link a nebulous disbelief in CC to excuse and justify excessive energy use, 'if GW is not really happening than we have no worries about energy and pollution'.. 'pollution is not really an issue and oil will never run out', our abuse of energy is not a problem, 'let's keep doing it'. And every gallon of gas we put in our cars pollutes this planet more and pours more money into the corporate lobby machine. And everyday you have less rights less money to work with and the planet goes further down hill.

Which always brings us back to individual freedom and how to attain it. It's not a right to carry a gun, that's another 'carrot' that you're being fed out of your own gullibility. Freedom is autonomy from the forces that control us. If I can live without pouring every penny I have into a machine that wants to own me then that's less power anyone has over me.

'Alternate energy doesn't work.' So who wants you to believe that? The people selling you energy! The last thing they want is for you to stop buying their product. So what does that do for those of you who think alternate energy is another Al Gore hoax? It makes you a pawn of the people controlling you... congratulations!

Rob

 

[SPYDERLK]

Wrong again Eddie, March was the warmest ever recorded. With this you can expect cold records too, it's more than just warming.

I'd like to see your figures on lobby money, and let's include ALL the energy advocates not just oil. Fracking companies pumped a billion and a half bucks into DC.
Now we gave corporations the vote, anyone think that is the most dangerous thing democracy can experience? I do, now we have a corporate oligarchy running this country. The bad information on GW benefits energy and that's the people putting it out. It's not about Al Gore, it's about the environment we live in and the planet we live on.
Rob

One man one voice one vote. Megaphones from $100,000. Single purchaser only.
larry

 

[Rob-D]

33 years of data is not a trend in the time line of the Earths existence or of Man's influence.

Actually if you look at man's activity over the last couple of hundred years since we have been using coal, oil, etc. you will see that man has influenced this planet more and in more ways than has ever been seen or recorded since man has been observing history. We live in an unprecedented time and have no real reference to compare our effects on the planet today as, say, during the first 1000 or 1500 years after Christ. In the last 10 years we have used more energy than we did in that entire period I'd say. What did they have as energy then? Whale oil, maybe kerosene lamps and wood?

One person can do about 100 watt/hours of work. (try it, sit on a bike with a generator and see how much energy it takes to make 100 watts for an hour, I'll bet most people couldn't do it) but let's say that one person can put out 100 watt hours for 8 hours which is an exorbitant amount of energy, by the way. So that = 800 Wh. A gallon of gas is about 10 KWh if I remember so 10e3/800 = 12-1/2 days of one man working (it's probably more like 20 days but we'll be conservative here)
So think about this, your wife goes to the store for a gallon of milk, picks up the kids from school and runs a few other errands. Maybe she uses 2 or 3 gallons of gas at 20 to 25 mpgs running around. So now we're talking about one person working a couple of months and we're not including the energy the farmer used to plow his fields to make that milk or the energy to pasteurize it and bring it to market. The energy to light the market, freezers, the energy to maintain the roads, stop lights, materials to make the carton, etc.
At the end of the day most families use more energy than a family 300 or 400 years ago used in a couple of decades if not a life time. That's how much energy we use without realizing it.

What's that effect on the environment? Monumental, so we can't say that 10 or 20 years is too small a period of time because time is not linear, its been distorted by our tremendous energy demands and usage, unprecedented in history, even 100 years ago.

Now, who here thinks we can keep doing this indefinitely?

Rob

 

[powerpace]

Under climate change, winners and losers on the coral reef

Posted: 12 Apr 2012 09:13 AM PDT

As ocean temperatures rise, some species of corals are likely to succeed at the expense of others, according to a new report that details the first large-scale investigation of climate effects on corals.

Isn't that Darwinism at work? The world survives on what will adapt to the environment.

 

[powerpace]

Hi



By the same logic if you are 50 years old and get a tooth ache, and its worse the next day and even worse the next day and bloody painful the day after - don't worry - a trend of 4 days is not significant in 50 years of your existence

Mike

Yes you had no pain for 50 years prior and no pain after that trend of 4 days. Ten years later you have another 4 days of pain. That's a cycle.

 

[powerpace]

Virtually all of the oil and natural gas we use today was formed millions and millions of years previous. We will never reach that level of oil formation again.

Geologic time scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rob-D]

Yes you had no pain for 50 years prior and no pain after that trend of 4 days. Ten years later you have another 4 days of pain. That's a cycle.

In a linear time curve maybe but no in a logarithmic one like we are experiencing. And aren't you over looking the possibility of the tooth ache causing a bacterial infection that destroys your heart valve and kills you? So maybe in ten years there is no you.
My point is that we are existing in a paradigm that has never happened before in recorded history. So maybe we better address that tooth ache!

Rob

 

[powerpace]

In a linear time curve maybe but no in a logarithmic one like we are experiencing. And aren't you over looking the possibility of the tooth ache causing a bacterial infection that destroys your heart valve and kills you? So maybe in ten years there is no you.
My point is that we are existing in a paradigm that has never happened before in recorded history. So maybe we better address that tooth ache!

Rob

The Key phrase is "recorded history". Anything prior to 200 years ago is a guess in recorded history. Having no one to physically measure and observe something that happened millions of years previous my thought is, a 33 years span is a blip in time. In 10,000 years when we are in the middle of an ice age those 33 or 200 or 400 years will not even show up. We can not comprehend the span of time in the Earths constant changes.

The Antarctic wasn't discovered till about 1800.
The first passage through the Northwest Passage was 1903-1906.
The Accuracy of Thermometers wasn't standardized till about the Civil War. Formal observations and recording of weather didn't happen in the U.S. till 1880's.
The World observations were not coordinated till decades after that.
The Jet Stream was not discovered till the 1940's.
Measurement of Arctic sea ice wasn't developed till the 1950's.
First satellite to monitor Arctic sea ice 1979.
Amount of time a Weather Forecast is good. About 3 days Max. And it doesn't matter how many satellites you use. That three day time period hasn't changed from the 1960's when I forecast the Weather.

 

[EE_Bota]

Actually if you look at man's activity over the last couple of hundred years since we have been using coal, oil, etc. you will see that man has influenced this planet more and in more ways than has ever been seen or recorded since man has been observing history. We live in an unprecedented time and have no real reference to compare our effects on the planet today as, say, during the first 1000 or 1500 years after Christ. In the last 10 years we have used more energy than we did in that entire period I'd say. What did they have as energy then? Whale oil, maybe kerosene lamps and wood?

One person can do about 100 watt/hours of work. (try it, sit on a bike with a generator and see how much energy it takes to make 100 watts for an hour, I'll bet most people couldn't do it) but let's say that one person can put out 100 watt hours for 8 hours which is an exorbitant amount of energy, by the way. So that = 800 Wh. A gallon of gas is about 10 KWh if I remember so 10e3/800 = 12-1/2 days of one man working (it's probably more like 20 days but we'll be conservative here)
So think about this, your wife goes to the store for a gallon of milk, picks up the kids from school and runs a few other errands. Maybe she uses 2 or 3 gallons of gas at 20 to 25 mpgs running around. So now we're talking about one person working a couple of months and we're not including the energy the farmer used to plow his fields to make that milk or the energy to pasteurize it and bring it to market. The energy to light the market, freezers, the energy to maintain the roads, stop lights, materials to make the carton, etc.
At the end of the day most families use more energy than a family 300 or 400 years ago used in a couple of decades if not a life time. That's how much energy we use without realizing it.

What's that effect on the environment? Monumental, so we can't say that 10 or 20 years is too small a period of time because time is not linear, its been distorted by our tremendous energy demands and usage, unprecedented in history, even 100 years ago.

Now, who here thinks we can keep doing this indefinitely?

Rob

I have a hard time understanding your units. Good to see you again though.

 

[Short Game]

Beyond the 200 years, we have lots of potential data from dendrochronology and ice cores and such to make some educated guesses about earlier climates. We have the reporting data from those years to lay against the tree rings and ice cores, pond, lake, sea, and river delta sediments with pollen deposits, and things I probably haven't thought of on the spur of the moment, to help us read the natural record. The science goes beyond modern reporting.

 

[powerpace]

Beyond the 200 years, we have lots of potential data from dendrochronology and ice cores and such to make some educated guesses about earlier climates. We have the reporting data from those years to lay against the tree rings and ice cores, pond, lake, sea, and river delta sediments with pollen deposits, and things I probably haven't thought of on the spur of the moment, to help us read the natural record. The science goes beyond modern reporting.

Yes and they all show interglacial warming "now and numerous previous periods" and Glaciation. Volcanic eruption caused "no summers" that also occurred in recorded time. Numerous times of Mini Ice Ages and also higher than current CO2 levels have been discovered. During the higher than normal CO2 level, plant life was booming. Greenhouse production growers take advantage of this phenomenon by pumping more CO2 into their greenhouses to spur plant growth.

 

[Short Game]

And they show that today's levels of CO2 are unprecedented.

 

[newbury]

Bird, that storm is on it's way here!! Our local weather forecasters are in there little weatherman heaven reporting all the doom and gloom of this storm. It seems the worse it is, the more exited they get!!!

Steph says that is one of the kids say they want to be an meteoroligst, she'll beat it out of them. hahahahaha So far they have been dead wrong on just about everything that supposed to happen. Now I'm waiting around until 4pm when it's suppposed to drop twenty degrees.<snip>

Wrong again Eddie, March was the warmest ever recorded. With this you can expect cold records too, it's more than just warming.
<snip>

This quote furthers the perception I have that few people actually investigate about the "facts".

RobD - Why did you quote Eddie from 2006?
That was the THIRD post in this thread of about 700, and I didn't notice anybody mention that you were quoting a 6 year old post like it was yesterday.

 

[Rob-D]

The Key phrase is "recorded history". Anything prior to 200 years ago is a guess in recorded history. Having no one to physically measure and observe something that happened millions of years previous my thought is, a 33 years span is a blip in time. In 10,000 years when we are in the middle of an ice age those 33 or 200 or 400 years will not even show up. We can not comprehend the span of time in the Earths constant changes.

The Antarctic wasn't discovered till about 1800.
The first passage through the Northwest Passage was 1903-1906.
The Accuracy of Thermometers wasn't standardized till about the Civil War. Formal observations and recording of weather didn't happen in the U.S. till 1880's.
The World observations were not coordinated till decades after that.
The Jet Stream was not discovered till the 1940's.
Measurement of Arctic sea ice wasn't developed till the 1950's.
First satellite to monitor Arctic sea ice 1979.
Amount of time a Weather Forecast is good. About 3 days Max. And it doesn't matter how many satellites you use. That three day time period hasn't changed from the 1960's when I forecast the Weather.

I think what we can be sure of is that no peoples before us in quite some time, taped into the oil reserve... at last in the last several million years.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

I have a hard time understanding your units. Good to see you again though.

Hi EE,
Yes a gallon of gas is measured in Kw, not KWh and the guy can generate 100 watts, when he does it for an hour he makes 100 Wh and after 8 hours 800 Wh. Writing faster than I'm thinking again!!

Rob

 

[powerpace]

I think what we can be sure of is that no people's before us in quite some time, taped into the oil reserve... at last in the last several million years.

Rob

Your right. That's why developing other energy sources should be developed. Those that control the oil control you. The U.S. does not control the oil.

Global warming will come whether man had a impact or not. The Earth is not a unchanging static globe.

 

[Rob-D]

This quote furthers the perception I have that few people actually investigate about the "facts".

RobD - Why did you quote Eddie from 2006?
That was the THIRD post in this thread of about 700, and I didn't notice anybody mention that you were quoting a 6 year old post like it was yesterday.

Old age! That's where the link took me when someone posted. Or 'B' above, it's always fun to chide Eddie!

Rob