Building an "old fashioned appearance" new barn

[schweizer]

Wow, domush, I just read through your threads on that Yanmar restore. Beautiful job!

 

[schweizer]

Lots of tractor time yesterday and Sunday!

Finished spreading base gravel under and around the barn. Then, had to bring power in power. 2 legs of 120 V, w/ 30 breakers. Always good to have 240 V in a barn. Now I started building in earnest. First, I found the DK45 has a loader reach of just shy of 9'. With the forks tilted up, I can make it to 9' easy enough, but never to 10'. I had originally planned on building the ceiling at 10' and the loft floor at 11', but since I'm building this by myself and the ROPS is 8' and the forks can only reach to 9', the ceiling is now lowered to 9'. No biggie. Gives more loft head height. See new drawing.

Yesterday, after nailing off the pressure-treated skirt boards around the base, I started w/ some of the beams. For you hydrostat nay-sayers, this is the greatest. You can *crawl* w/ a hydrostat to perfectly align and set timbers by yourself. I'm using 6x12 laminated timbers to support the roof. The gussets tying them to the posts are from 5/8 plywood. The 6x12's that support the loft are plywood "microlams". Only got 1 of those set before dark, and the last picture is pretty grainy. Oh, and I got a cheap framing nailgun from Harbor Freight -- big time saver. Enjoy the pics!

Electrical panel. The outlet is temporary, but that's where the breakers will stay.

For now, water (1" PVC) is stubbed next to a post, w/ a ball valve shutoff underground.

 

[Domush]

Wow, domush, I just read through your threads on that Yanmar restore. Beautiful job!

Thank you. I just got my first attachment the other day (bush hog), so I'm having fun playing around.

I can't believe you're building that shop alone! That's quite an undertaking. I found just working on my tractor alone to be daunting. I'm beginning to both tire of working on stuff myself and having little more than an echo in my house. Want a roommate?

Have you built shops/houses in the past or is this a new experience?

Also, what kind of wood is that. I'm not familiar with building lumber being red (besides cedar). I'm from the east coast, so we're mostly oak and pine. Is redwood a common building lumber there? Is it similar to oak or pine in cost?

 

[schweizer]

Ah, I could have used a roommate this week with the wife and kids gone at a graduation.

The dark wood is just the treatment from the pressure-treated 6x6 posts and 2x8 skirt boards. Is that what you mean? We just mostly use Douglas fir around here. Unless you have a good source of cedar (more expensive), or Ponderosa pine (not quite as good but can be a good choice if you mill it yourself or find it cheap).

New experience for something this big. Built a 15x15' "Powerhouse" with a contractor friend a few years ago. It's the chalet in the background on some of the pics and it has my backup generator and off-grid electrical system and batteries. We just built the real house, too, and I tried to help, but mostly the contractor and subs built it. Other than that, just treehouses and stuff has a kid!

Marcus

 

[pilot-werx]

here is a link to my barn project. granted it is a little bigger, but the town made the stipulation that the building had to be designed to present a traditional new england agricultural appearance.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/233365-new-dairy.html

 

[schweizer]

Worked on the barn part of yesterday and all day today. Here are pics.

The little metal tie plates are going to be supplemented by large plywood gussets. The loft floor (1 1/8" plywood) will lock everything together nicely. Most of the "timbers" are placed now, except for the top truss support beams. Note how the largest microlam beams are supported from below by 4' of vertically oriented 2x6's and 5/8" plywood which are nailed and through-bolted. Only got done 6 of 19 BCI joists before it got dark but they go up quickly. Needed to have the wife to help for that part and she was busy planting stuff in the garden, watering vineyard and other plants, and taking care of the kids. It seems to take forever, but I'm building this alone.

 

[Bob77064]

Looking good, that's a fine looking house too.

 

[TRR]

Your finish drawing in your first post shows an overhang on the front of the barn along with a prow at the top. The framing drawing in the same post does not show how you plan on doing the prow or the overhang. Would you share that info please?

The way I've seen it done before is for the end truss (I realize you're not using trusses) to be 3.5" smaller than the rest so ladder framing can be used for the overhang and tied into the next truss back. You have me curious.

 

[schweizer]

Sure. I've been referring to them as trusses, so that's OK. It's not quite cemented in my mind yet. Since the trusses with collarties will be made of 2x8's (overkill) instead of 2x6's, I have a bit of room to work with. I was planning on notching the last truss for perpendicular boards for the 2' overhang anyway, and tying them back to the 2nd truss. For the prow, I can proportionally increase their length. Yes, I know that 2x material flat would bend, but I can also add a mini-ridgebeam and diagonal pieces back from the tip of the prow back to the 1st truss to transfer the loads back into the trusses. Does that make sense? I think that's sort of in the same vein as what you are describing w/ 3.5" smaller truss. Let me see if I can make a drawing in Sketchup....

Marcus

 

[schweizer]

Maybe something like this? I'm open to all suggestions. I've never seen this part done before.

 

[schweizer]

Looking good, that's a fine looking house too.

Thank you. If you're referring to the little chalet-like house behind the barn on the last few pics, that's the powerhouse. It houses our off-grid electrical system including batteries and old-time Lister generator, and there's a little cabin above. The real house can be seen in the background on the 1st page of the thread.

 

[NHmitch]

Thanks for the responses. In the end, running the floor support timbers (6x12 microlams) north-south on the short span, and running the BCI floor joists across the longer 16' span won out. Contractors I spoke to didn't think it would matter either way because the floor diaphragm would hold the posts from spreading any. They thought building w/ BCI's would be better than 2x12's for floor joists and it priced out similarly.

Today is a long day at work, but yesterday was a big work-outside day. *Lots* of tractor time. I wanted base rock under the barn and around the perimeter and the guy I contracted to bring it was supposed to bring 60 yards of 4"-minus and drain rock for the French drain. Well, when his drivers arrived w/ tandem trailers, they had 4" *clean* rock, not 4" *minus*. That means I had spend a bit more time than expected spreading out that stuff, then I had to order 20 yards of decomposed granite to spread over top. Part of that was spread by hand. Now the rock around the perimeter is real rough still. After talking to the contractor this morning, he's going to give me a discount on 3/4" minus to spread over top.

The material for the barn was delivered a few days ago. Hopefully I'll start setting loft beams this weekend. Since I know you all like to know how much things cost, I'm including a materials list (text format). Aim was for around $10,000 but I'm over that now, but the metal roof and installation is the main expense remaining. Just my labor on everything else...

Marcus

Materials List w/ Running Total (Sorry, formatting is not coming out right, will fix later.)

Marcus,

Looks like a great start! Very well planned out. Are you guys completely off the grid? That is our goal, but we are just deciding on wind or solar, and big start up costs affecting it as well, but that is the way to go! Keep the pictures coming!

 

[schweizer]

Thanks Mitch.

Yep, completely off-the-grid. It would have cost about $50k to bring power up here 1200 ft from the last house, and the power co. wanted a $200/month service charge just to have power because we're more than xx feet from the last customer. Solar power made more sense.

Think carefully about wind power. The sun is very reliable: is rises and sets on a predictable schedule, even if it's obscured by rain clouds. Wind, OTOH, is not predictable or reliable in most instances. Sure, solar power costs money initially, but once you've made the investment the panels are guaranteed for >20 years.

Here's our website documenting our off-grid project. I need to update it.
Mossy Hollow

Marcus

 

[s219]

Will there be any plywood or other sheathing on the roof? One way to handle a prow is to have 2x4 ties on edge, bridging the last rafter (or truss) to the outer fascia board. Then plywood (or other sheathing) over the top to "strap" that entire prow structure back into the main roof. The strap wood should reach over at least 2 rows of rafters or trusses and be securely nailed down.

In the old days, they would notch and connect all the prow ties right into the roof framing. Or, if you have purloins resting on the rafters/trusses, just extend the purloins beyond the edge to support the prow. I think there are a lot of options here. The prow won't end up being that heavy, and you can anchor it far back into the rest of the roof structure to resist any sort of twisting.

 

[schweizer]

Yes, I was planning on plywood sheathing under a metal roof. It might be easier to use 2x4 strapping/horizontally on top of the rafters, and less costly, but then what would I use for a condensation barrier? Plywood and roofing felt is pretty standard. Is there something else that would be cheaper than decking the roof w/ plywood? Also, the plywood would make a nice rigid diaphragm.

 

[schweizer]

I was doing a bit more research on metal roofs and barns, and there's a lot of conflicting advice out there. Some people say OSB, then tar paper/felt, then metal. Others advocate roll-out bubble insulation w/ vapor barrier over purlins, then metal. Others talk about spray foam. Since I won't have purlins, I'd have to do skip sheathing (is that the correct term?) over the rafters if I don't do the plywood.

Guess I'll just stick w/ 1/2" OSB over the rafters 2' OC. Any opinions?

 

[tcreeley]

I've heard that metal roofs do best over 2X4's without anything else because they are the same temp as the air and don't attract condensation. I did my house roof with an air pocket of 3" above the original roof an that works well. I did my barnroof without plywood and metal and tat has been good.- Soffits and airflow is the key to avoid condensation..

 

[schweizer]

Progress yesterday. Didn't get nearly as far as I wanted due to freak stormy weather with intermittent downpours. The goal was to put plywood on the loft floor, but I didn't want to do that in rainy weather. My kids, Evi & Sebby (4 and 3) were happily building their own "barns" with my off-cuts.

That 2x12 on the front of the loft floor is hand-hewn and was a left over from when we built the house. Glad I saved it -- it will look great in the barn. It took a little longer to install because I tried to keep most of the fasteners hidden.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...My kids, Evi & Sebby (4 and 3) were happily building their own "barns" with my off-cuts.

I love that. I think most of the stuff I have built has had a miniature version cobbled together by my kids. It slows the progress down to have to nail this or weld that for the kids' project, but it's worth it.

 

[FreshRouteFarm]

What a project! This is exactly what I am hoping to build for a barn someday. Looks great.