New L5740HSTC3 loader question

daugen · Oct 13, 2012

Am anxiously awaiting my new tractor, which is being slowed down by waiting for Long to send their grapple bucket, though I'm told it will be worth the wait.
My question involves rpm level for loader work. This tractor has an almost confusing set of operational modes, though I think several will be the go to ones.
When using the loader to pick up close to rated capacity (yes I have a ballast box ordered), what rpm is needed to get full hydraulic power from the system?
Is hydraulic power linear with rpm, or is it like torque and comes on "down low"? Never had a FEL before and tend to run equipment at lower rpm if only to
reduce the noise, though I think this cab tractor will be pretty quiet.
I'm sure this will be the first question of many, and I appreciate your input. Drew

TripleR · Oct 13, 2012

You got me, I run mine pretty much by feel anywhere from 1500 to 2300 or so and it works fine doing loader work. Revving it up higher didn't seem to get me much more if any and it gets pretty jerky at high RPM.

daugen · Oct 13, 2012

thanks Triple R. I've used zero turn mowers before that warn against operating at lower rpm due to hydraulic motor damage, not sure why. The new Kubota has Stall Guard and all kinds of other nanny devices so I don't think I'll stall it, but wondered if low rpm operation would do any damage. My concern also applies to the JR Long grapple, but these are all hydraulic cylinder operated, not motors like a z turn mower, so perhaps it's apples and oranges. I was thinking of running in the 1500 to 2000 range to start.
Just didn't want to do unnecessary newbie damage.

MHarryE · Oct 13, 2012

If you use auto throttle with the lever set to idle, you will end up with a very lethargic loader. By this I mead sloooow curl and lift once you are stopped and the engine idles down. I bump my engine speed control lever up a bit so the engine will only come back so far. How much is that? For me no single setting fits all. Sometimes a lethargic loader is what I want because I am doing precise work, and the next time I might be loading gravel at the pit and cycle time is important so I am near full engine speed at idle. It will all work out well for you once you try it. I have seen that some adjust their auto-throttle linkage to suit their needs but I am at 300 hours and still don't know if there would be an optimum.

TripleR · Oct 14, 2012

It's a learning process and you will learn to adjust your RPM to fit your needs; varies from one tractor to the next.

The 5740 and most of the CUTs seem like they are really running fast at optimum power if you are use to older or bigger machines, 540 PTO is about 2600 on the 5740, but only 2250 on our M8540 and even less on our older tractors.

It takes a while to learn to get the best performance out of the HST+, so don't get concerned. I don't use all the features, but what I do makes it well worth while.

I always get my Operator Manual and read it through before the tractor is delivered.

Good luck.

Kubota HST-Plus Transmission - YouTube

Kubota L-40 Series Service

daugen · Oct 14, 2012

well you've educated me already, I would have never thought auto throttle was good for anything but pulling a wagon or a non-implement/pto task. There is the adjustment for "hydro response" or whatever they call it, I'm assuming it
just lowers the available gpm, so my thought was that for heavier loads, and not wanting the jerkiness, to slow things down that way. When I test drove the tractor, I was surprised how jerky the FEL was, granted I was probably operating
it poorly, but I'm retired, rarely in a rush, so I'd tend to go slower, particularly if I'm carrying weight. I will be doing mostly light land clearing and firewood detail, including picking up some rounds that are close to three feet, and hoping I can learn to use the grapple well enough to put those rounds down slowly and carefully on my large logsplitter. I've tried to split the big rounds with splitter in vertical, and it's backbreaking work. Once I get them up on splitter, horizontal works better, but this would be precision work and I surely need some practice first. And next time I tell the tree guy to take anything more than 24 inches away, my eyes were bigger than my back when I saw all that tree laying there. Lots of woods, can be pickier on what I work on. So I'll practice using a variety of settings. Thanks for the feedback.

daugen · Oct 14, 2012

thanks Triple R, our posts crossed, we're both up early. I've watched that YouTube video already, but not the second one, thanks.

TripleR · Oct 14, 2012

daugen said:
thanks Triple R, our posts crossed, we're both up early. I've watched that YouTube video already, but not the second one, thanks.

I retired five years ago and after growing up on a farm and getting up early for college then my job of 32 years I thought. "Thanks God, now I can finally sleep late"; well I was wrong, just not in me.:laughing:

texasjohn · Oct 14, 2012

You'll soon learn how to move the FEL at speeds appropriate to task. It can be very slooooow, or faster as you discovered.
I highly recommend making a habit of resting your elbow on the arm rest when operating the FEL lever. This stabilizes your arm and allows fine motor control with wrist action on lever. I do not believe there is any rpm speed which is damaging to engine, transmission, FEL or 3ph...beyond the usual wear incurred by operating any such device.

Net, run at rpm's that make you comfortable and provide the operating speed and power you desire for the task at hand. You're getting a great tractor with excellent features and attachments...enjoy and don't worry about damaging it by simply using it. Like you, I run equipment at rpm speeds minimum to get the task done. But, am not afraid to run at 2600 rpm when at PTO operation or asking for max capacity from tractor. The HST+ is a real step ahead of simple HST, wish I had it. True, engine noise is reduced by the cab. Suggestion, have the dealer CHECK the hydraulic pressure relief for FEL...my L5030 was under specification and lift capacity was dramatically increased when pressure was increased by adding a shim to the relief valve. This is an easy test/fix for the dealer to do. With the grapple, you will want all the lifting power you can get....am glad to hear you are getting a ballast box...BEWARE, on my tractor, I can EASILY lift rear tires off ground when lifting with FEL without proper rear ballast...and I mean approximately 1000 lbs. Proper rear weight will keep all tires on ground and the relief valve will pop (this is normal, no problem, you will hear a hisssss) when the loader has reached its maximum lift capacity. The relief valve setting is far more significant to max lift capacity than is rpm. I always have a counter weight when operating the FEL. Also, I highly recommend filling your rear tires with liquid...adds to ballast. Many, many TBN members have loaded tires. Front tires should be aired to near max PSI shown on sidewall...numerous TBN members did not pay attention to this and under max FEL loads and turning have rolled their tires off the rim. I just mention these things since this is your first FEL. Consider chain hooks on your FEL....sooooo handy for many, many things...also, a tooth bar if you are going to be doing dirt work...for me, the tooth bar about doubles the capability and usefulness of the FEL. Money well spent. You are getting a quick attach on the fel, aren't you?? Another extremely handy must have, IMHO.

daugen · Oct 14, 2012

I did order the removable tooth bar for the bucket, didn't think of the chain hook, thanks, and have been checking out the quick attach. I have bad arthritis and a bad back, not that it slows me down much, but anything that makes life easier or safer is a good thing. The implements are way too heavy for me to horse around, and using a 2x4 to push things into position is not much fun. Plus the quick attach would seem to avoid the handful of grease one gets from fiddling with the normal connector. There was a post on this site showing a pic of a member with his tractor almost vertical in the air, with no rear ballast, and that pic will stay with me for a long time. My problem with loaded tires is making the tractor too heavy for me to tow with my Suburban. I'm good for 9400 pounds, and I try to keep the load at least a half ton under that. So with a FEL and a half ton in the ballast box, not sure if the math works. Many thanks. Drew

TripleR · Oct 14, 2012

Drew, I can certainly understand the problem with tow weight, but agree 100% with texasjohn who provided excellent advice when I bought my L5030 which obviously transfers to the L5740. I have fluid in my rear tires and have an 1100 pound box blade or rotary cutter to get the maximum benefit from my tractor; the importance of proper ballast can't be over emphasized.

I put five hooks on my HD bucket; got them at Truck and Tow:TrucknTow - Weld-On Grab Hooks (Pellican Hooks)

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...228972-installing-hooks-front-end-loader.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/186929-using-loader-chains-etc-4.html

texasjohn · Oct 14, 2012

OK...given a bad back...and who doesn't have one...I truly believe you need the quick attach for FEL equipment...yes, I don't use mine every day...but it is completely no problem to change from FEL to hay spike, to forks, to no attachment...and no grease!!

I recommend 3 chain hooks...one in line with lift arms on both sides, and one in center. alternatively, you could have a trailer hitch insert welded to the center and change between trailer ball, hook, or ?? It's surprising how often just one hook is not sufficient to hook up a load.

And, I highly recommend a hydraulic top link....check out numerous threads discussing it...some have a check valve on theirs, some don't...but all agree it is a back saver and step saver. I rigged up plastic pipe levers for mine so I can operate both top link and lift arms from rear of tractor thru cab rear window...makes hooking up implements soooo much easier. Here at TBN we just love to spend other people's money!!

daugen · Oct 14, 2012

One of my bucket list items is learning how to weld, so I'd have to rely on someone else to weld the brackets on, no big deal, and certainly would do it better than I could. Do you normally run the chain through one hook or more than one?
Guess it depends upon the weight. I have to wait and see what kind of clearance I have with the Long Grapple bucket installed; certainly not going to hang anything on those arms for sure...
the hydraulic top link caught my eye too; I ordered the extra third rear hydraulic line, could that work for the hydraulic link? As you can see, I'm really new at this, but have some common sense. Some...

I spent most of my career in insurance, and am very safety conscious, so I tend to belt and suspender things. If one strap works, use two sort of thing. I guess when I bend my first hook I'll know my own limitations pretty quickly.

TripleR · Oct 14, 2012

I took my hooks up and had the dealer weld them, my sons can weld, but for what I paid for my tractor, I was going to get all I could.

Second the hydraulic top link, I got mine with Top and Tilt. MountainviewRanch sells hydraulic top links as well as full kits through fit rite; might check with him if you are looking for aftermarket stuff.

I prefer not to lift from just one hook unless it's light.

daugen · Oct 14, 2012

Drew, I can certainly understand the problem with tow weight, but agree 100% with texasjohn who provided excellent advice when I bought my L5030 which obviously transfers to the L5740. I have fluid in my rear tires and have an 1100 pound box blade or rotary cutter to get the maximum benefit from my tractor; the importance of proper ballast can't be over emphasized.

I bought a four foot box blade for my current tractor, little small for the new one, but have no desire at this point to buy another one, so not enough weight there. There was a great post awhile back about what to put in the ballast box; e.g if you roll the tractor do you want sand, gravel, whatever showering down on you. Granted, that's a terrible worst case, but it sure would be nice to be able to use water in the ballast box, but at seven pounds a gallon, don't think I'd get enough weight, and I'd have to have a lid arrangement of course.

Buppies · Oct 14, 2012

TexasJohn how did you rig the plastic pipe to control levers from outside the cab? I am sort of dense if I can't see pictures. Thanks

texasjohn · Oct 14, 2012

You will never bend a hook.
I like the way you think, I'm kinda the same way:thumbsup:
The 3rd rear hydraulic line is EXACTLY what you need for the hydraulic top link...good planning!!
Multiple chain attachment points are used to insure that the load is both properly secured and balanced for the loader. If you were to use only one hook, either your load swings around under the loader, not good when underway, or you must run the chain twice into the same hook...and the hook is not sufficiently deep to accommodate two links, typically. Grab hooks is what you want, not slip hooks. I have 3 grab hooks and 2 slip hooks....extremely seldom do I use the slip hooks.

Is your bucket a heavy duty one, or light duty...not sure about the Long construction....I have the heavy duty bucket from Kubota and there is no need to reinforce the hook attachment point with it...with a lighter duty bucket, some have bent their bucket, some have reinforced the top where hooks are attached...net, get heavy duty bucket, you will not be sorry.

As regarding limitations, there are two you need to know about.

First, when seeking to lift more weight than the tractor and hydraulics can handle, the relief valve pops and you can lift no further, this is normal, very smooth, no jerks.

Second, your rear tires come off the ground...either because of insufficient ballast, or uneven ground plus FEL lift effort...this is NOT good and can be jerky...which is why when carrying an extremely heavy load I ALWAYS keep my hand on the FEL lever so I can drop the weight immediately if I start tipping. And, you WILL tip if you carry a very heavy load over sloping ground. Not to worry, you will exercise care and soon learn how the tractor "feels" when it is nearing the danger zone. The HST is your friend here, allowing you to creep along when conditions are uncertain.

Buppies · Oct 14, 2012

TripleR see you are up early to. Spread 18 yards of mulch yesterday along with some dirt and still up by 6:00 AM reading. Oh well so much for sleeping in

texasjohn · Oct 14, 2012

I used a T fitting and piece of straight pipe, cut to length. For the lift arms, a T fitting sized to slide over the handle with smaller pipe inside facing the rear and bolted into the T fitting to allow movement as lift arm moves up and down. For top link hydraulics, similar T fitting simply fitting over the hydraulic handle with handle pointing to rear...simply a pressure fit, I didn't glue it...I carry both inside cab for use as needed.

Hint...all I did was figure out how to attach a somewhat rigid handle (for push/pull) running from outside tractor where I could reach it to inside and figure out how to affix it temporarily to lift arm handle/hydraulic handle. Likely many ways to do this, I just had some pipe and fittings and fiddled around until I found something that works and is inexpensive...not elegant, but super handy...have used it for several years now.