Building a Pole Barn: Step 1

[GManBart]

I am going to either put a barrel stove in it or putting a gas wall heater in. Initially, I will probably just go with a kerosene heater to knock the chill off.

You may want to consider insulating under the slab to keep it from acting like a heat sink. I went with 2" thick R10 sheets under my slab, because of the radiant heat (no sense heating the dirt). Home Depot sells them for a bit under $30 per 4x8 sheet, and Lowes is a touch higher.

I'm in the middle of building a 40x64 barn that has a continuous poured foundation, but will be like a pole barn from the foundation upwards. We've already poured the 24x40' shop side slab, and will do the 40x40 barn side in the Spring (trying to get the walls, doors, and roof up before the weather gets bad).

My general advice would be to plan for everything taking twice as long as you expect it! Also, a visit with the local building inspector is a good idea before you get too set on any particular details, or plans. I had some additional challenges, because we were demolishing a house where the barn is going up, but I can't describe how many times I had to call/visit the building inspector to get things lined up for the permits. I would just make sure they know you're doing the project yourself, haven't done one before, and ask that they give you detailed guidance on what they need to see, and the order of events. There's nothing worse than being ready to do something, only to find out a different inspector has to check it before you can proceed. For example, we put radiant heat in our slab, and I had to get the mechanical inspector to check it, even though the plumbing inspector had already signed off on his part. You'd think the plumbing inspector could inspect radiant heat tubes (plumbing), but that's not how it works here.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying to try getting as much guidance as possible from the building inspector in the hopes it will save you some time, and headaches!

Inspirational photos....the first was after we poured the shop side slab (you'll note the PVC for the bathroom...full shower, toilet, sink)...man cave alert. The second is after putting the header beam up over the two 18'x12' overhead doors.

 

[gregfender]

Greg,

That is a nice looking building.:thumbsup:

Keep us updated with photos. Do you have a couple of friends that can help? If not it looks like a good project for a history class:laughing:

I plan on starting mine late winter early spring. I will get a local guy to put in the post and get it under roof then finish it myself. I need to take down about 10 trees before starting. I gave up on Morton way to many $$.

Are you buying your post from Lowes?

David

I had planned on getting most of my materials from Lowes since they are local...unless you know of someone nearby that sells 6x6 PT posts for less than $40! I am hoping to finish the whole thing under $10K including concrete.

We have an exchange student from Germany with us this year and he is chomping at the bit to get started building. Of course I am too!

 

[hunterridgefarm]

Greg,

Call Wall Lumber in Morganton I can PM the phone number to you if needed. They are very competitive with Lowes and most of their lumber/post seem to be a better quality.

Also South Mountain Builders, they build pole barns with engineered truss system. They sell post and the metal. I can get that phone # if needed. They are located on HWY 18 south about 10 +/- miles outside of Morganton. This is who I plan to use to get mine under roof.

I am checking with https://permacolumn.com/ first to get pricing and delivery. I like the idea of using the perma columns instead of putting the post in the ground.

 

[Beltman60]

put the young lad to work
looks very doable to me

 

[gregfender]

Greg,

Call Wall Lumber in Morganton I can PM the phone number to you if needed. They are very competitive with Lowes and most of their lumber/post seem to be a better quality.

Also South Mountain Builders, they build pole barns with engineered truss system. They sell post and the metal. I can get that phone # if needed. They are located on HWY 18 south about 10 +/- miles outside of Morganton. This is who I plan to use to get mine under roof.

I am checking with https://permacolumn.com/ first to get pricing and delivery. I like the idea of using the perma columns instead of putting the post in the ground.

The Permacolumn idea looks pretty good. I had planned on boring 24"x4' holes for the posts, filling with a foot of concrete for the base, then surrounding the post with concrete up to the top level of the slab, but those look like an even more permanent solution.

 

[SPIKER]

Some advice from someone working around construction most of my life, the shell framing and getting it under roof are the two parts that are hardest to get done. I found after doing a great deal of looking, calling and getting quotes that I could have a shell put up for dang near same cost as the materials from the big 3 home centers.

What I ended up doing was taking out the sod and top 8" of soil & adding some gravel base then had local Amish pole barn crew put up the shell and get it in dry in state.

The barn cost me 20K erected with everything on 16" centers, 50x50, (12' lean too so inside out of weather was 38x50. There is a 2nd story 38x50x10 gambrel style roof of fabricated on-site truss design.

I used the barn like this for years as I added base and compacted the inside & let soil inside dry etc. 11 years later I managed to save up and had concrete put into it again that is something to hire done... That was additional 7K in 2011 with 4.5" up to 8" thick at sides of fiber reinforced 6000PSI mix laid on top of insulation, mesh and radiant heating tubes. I did the leveling, insulation, mesh tubing etc just hired the pour & paid for the concrete 60 yards worth as I had outside 16x20x5" slab & 20x24 apron poured at same time.

So for most part there is a LOT of work & man hours that goes into a barn, my brother builds a lot of them on the side (retired.) He gets help for much of it but still takes a month or two for one your size working 4+ days a week 10~12hrs a day.

start w foundation & sod removal pic (area is about 60x60 & some flags can be seen where outside corner posts were laid out by me.)


Concrete going in back in 2011, there are some videos there too. Not sure what happened to some photos taken from the same places for perspective over the years.



Mark

 

[GManBart]

The Permacolumn idea looks pretty good. I had planned on boring 24"x4' holes for the posts, filling with a foot of concrete for the base, then surrounding the post with concrete up to the top level of the slab, but those look like an even more permanent solution.

I was going to use those as well, before deciding to go with a continuous foundation. I'm going to use their Sturdi-Wall brackets to seat the poles....we'll see how they work out, but I like the idea.

 

[BuilderML]

Greg,
I don't not build pole barns so i can't comment on that but from looking at your plans i can't see how it would be cheaper to build it as a pole barn versus stick building it. You are pouring a slab anyways. By doing so you no longer need your 6x6 post or digging your holes. If you really looked at the cost i think you would find that stick building would be less. 1 post = $40. 2x4x92 5/8= $3.50 . 11- 2x4 @ 16" o.c gives you 15' of wall. Something to think about. With stick building all your layout is done on the ground. More user friendly for a first timer. As far as doing rafters you cut 2 try it out making sure its right and keep one as a pattern to mark the rest. When bracing your walls make sure they are straight or you'll notice they won't fit right against your ridge. In my view with your roof i think you'll need some more helping hands. Good luck with your project. Keep us updated :drink:

 

[crbr]

thanks for the pictures

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm going to finish off a part of the lower part and half of the loft. I am going to panel part of it with the weathered boards I salvaged from my Pappy's barn.

Eddie, what's your opinion on concrete thickness? The heaviest thing I have is 3100 lbs of tractor that I will pull in only for servicing, not for storage. Would 4" with rebar and fiber filled concrete work? I'm thinking 3500 psi. Any suggestions?

If you are going to do it with poles in the ground, then they are where the load is carried and you don't need to do anything fancy with the concrete. Once done, the concrete is just a pad to park on and store stuff. Not knowing your part of the country, I would guess that 3 1/2 inches is fine using whatever the minimum strength concrete you can get. I like rebar in the slab with chairs held off the ground. The strength of the rebar is more from how it's mixed and allowed to cure then the rebar in it. The rebar is mostly to keep it together when it cracks. Remember, all concrete gets hard and all concrete cracks.

What is really important is how good you have. The reason to excavate soil is to either get rid of it if you have too much, as in a slope, or to remove soil that will settle over time because of biodegradable material in thee dirt. Topsoil is often confused with this. Some people have it, others just think they do. If you are like me, and you have solid clay soil, then there is no top soil to remove. Just level the ground pour concrete on top of it.

How committed to this plan are you? How much area do you have to build your barn on? Is the look of it more important then size or cost? The building in your link is very nice looking, but it's going to be expensive square footage compared to a lot of other buildings you could build. How many square feet do you want and what will you be using the space for? How many vehicles?

My guess is that instead of building the barn in the plan, you could build a traditional rectangular shaped barn twice as big for the same money using poles and traditional pole barn methods. Set posts, attached purlins and headers. Install trusses and cover the roof and walls.

Eddie

 

[gregfender]

If you are going to do it with poles in the ground, then they are where the load is carried and you don't need to do anything fancy with the concrete. Once done, the concrete is just a pad to park on and store stuff. Not knowing your part of the country, I would guess that 3 1/2 inches is fine using whatever the minimum strength concrete you can get. I like rebar in the slab with chairs held off the ground. The strength of the rebar is more from how it's mixed and allowed to cure then the rebar in it. The rebar is mostly to keep it together when it cracks. Remember, all concrete gets hard and all concrete cracks. What is really important is how good you have. The reason to excavate soil is to either get rid of it if you have too much, as in a slope, or to remove soil that will settle over time because of biodegradable material in thee dirt. Topsoil is often confused with this. Some people have it, others just think they do. If you are like me, and you have solid clay soil, then there is no top soil to remove. Just level the ground pour concrete on top of it. How committed to this plan are you? How much area do you have to build your barn on? Is the look of it more important then size or cost? The building in your link is very nice looking, but it's going to be expensive square footage compared to a lot of other buildings you could build. How many square feet do you want and what will you be using the space for? How many vehicles? My guess is that instead of building the barn in the plan, you could build a traditional rectangular shaped barn twice as big for the same money using poles and traditional pole barn methods. Set posts, attached purlins and headers. Install trusses and cover the roof and walls. Eddie

You have a valid point. I suppose I should have mentioned the purpose and such before soliciting advice. I keep my tractor parked under a drive-thru shed. I need the new barn to be big enough to work on the tractor (routine maint., etc), but not store it. The primary purpose is to be a workshop/man cave. I will have it wired and will have a wood stove for heat and a window unit for when it gets too hot.

It's going to be placed by the drive on the approach to the house. Because of this, I decided to go with this plan. With the steep roof and the pole construction, I have several options to finish the outside to complement the house. I will eventually finish the loft of the barn as a bunkhouse...if and when grand kids arrive.

I'll take a few pics of the site and the old barn that is there now to an idea of the plan.

 

[BrinkME]

The Permacolumn idea looks pretty good. I had planned on boring 24"x4' holes for the posts, filling with a foot of concrete for the base, then surrounding the post with concrete up to the top level of the slab, but those look like an even more permanent solution.

I don't remember the member's name, but I know someone on here used Permacolumns and was very pleased with them. I see on the plans you posted that they recommend Post Protectors Post Protection For Pole Building, Pole Barns, Decks | Post Protector.

Several of the posts call for a 36" footing.

 

[dave1949]

I don't remember the member's name, but I know someone on here used Permacolumns and was very pleased with them. I see on the plans you posted that they recommend Post Protectors Post Protection For Pole Building, Pole Barns, Decks | Post Protector.

Several of the posts call for a 36" footing.

The thread name is "Long Road Home" in Projects. Member ENG18LT (Lee).

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/241144-long-road-home.html

 

[bandaidmd]

I wish my pole barn had permacolums, the bottom of the posts is the only part that concerns me about longevity. Morton uses 3 -2x6's laminated so the treatment goes all the way thru the board i guess thats the next best method,mines just a regular 6x6. If you cut a 6x6 its easy to see that the preservative only penetrates the outside 1" or so.

To the original poster add up you rafter materials and compare with a quote on custom trusses. the trusses could be cheaper.

 

[hunterridgefarm]

To the original poster add up you rafter materials and compare with a quote on custom trusses. the trusses could be cheaper.

Greg,

I know this is not the pitch you want but Wall Lumber has 4/12 truss 24' on site for around $56.00 each. They could quote the pitch you need if interested.

David

 

[SPIKER]

I wish my pole barn had permacolums, the bottom of the posts is the only part that concerns me about longevity. Morton uses 3 -2x6's laminated so the treatment goes all the way thru the board i guess thats the next best method,mines just a regular 6x6. If you cut a 6x6 its easy to see that the preservative only penetrates the outside 1" or so.

To the original poster add up you rafter materials and compare with a quote on custom trusses. the trusses could be cheaper.

Laminated posts are really good and better at NOT twisting but not all treatment companies are not the same. On my posts are 6x6 solid and when cut the treatment was all way thru, but it IS darker on the edges vs the center. The end two feet were nearly sold treatment without any change from the one cut near the ends. we cut some ~4' off the short lean too side that showed treatment was less but still green vs the ones we cut a foot or so off were solid color.

Edit in: It is also important to note that the POST factory end is in the ground and is the end that GREEN TREATMENT is penetrated up the woods end grain capillaries quite well. Getting the GREEN (wet) poles stood up with the still liquid state will run into the base of the post giving it a HEAVY treatment in the ground. The concrete cookie that is dropped into the hole on my barn had some of the green liquid drain on a day after poles were up prior to back filling and tamping them... Again not all treatment companies are equal my pole barn materials came from Kidron Lumber (Amish owned) as an Amish built Barn built from scratch with what was called double dip lifetime timbers for in ground use.

Mark

 

[gregfender]

First of all, Happy Thanksgiving to all.

I've been cleaning out the old barn in preparation for taking it down. I figured I should take a few pics so everyone can see what I'm planning and what I am facing. As you can see, the old barn is beyond saving, the lean is too severe. However, I can save most all the exterior planks (hemlock) and most of the loft flooring. I am planning on paneling the part if the interior that will be the "man cave" with the weathered boards.












When compared to the trees nearby, you can see how the barn is leaning. Also, the ground has become unlevel in some places so I will be doing a bit of work with the box blade. I am trying to decide between a traditional red barn or painting the exterior a clay color with white trim and dark grey metal roof...colors like the house.

My Dad, bless his heart, never threw a thing away. That being said, I've been finding some interesting things I want to use in my new barn. Back in the early 1970s, my Dad covered the dormers of our house with cedar shingles. I found the left overs in the barn. 40+ years old and laying on the dirt in the barn and not a single rotten spot or insect hole to be found. Gotta love cedar. I will probably cover one of the smaller shed end walls with these.




And I found the lights I want to use too. My Dad was a principal for 30+ years and when the lights were replaced in the gym of his school, naturally he took the old ones and "saved" them. I am going to clean or repaint them their original color and mount them without the down rods in the barn then put two for exterior lights.




Now to make the vision a reality.

 

[ENG18LT]

Greg,

I used the perm columns this summer to build my pole barn, as Dave pointed out above you can see them in my thread linked in the signature below. I am very satisfied with the product and would recommend them to anyone planning a barn build. There is a learning curve to them as you need to pay attention to orientation of each post on the same wall, the purlins may need ｾ" shims between them and the posts to align to the splash board attached to the concrete portion as the wooden portion is slightly smaller then then concrete base. As a previous member posted they are absolutely straight with no splits, twisting, bows, etc. The additional cost of the permacolumn over a 6x6 is substantial, however I will never have to replace a post because it rotted off at ground level. After a lot of contemplating I did choose to use them and would do so again, not that I have any plans to build another barn. If you have any questions or would like to see additional pictures of the build feel free to contact me through the SEND MESSAGE link here on TBN.



Good luck!

One other thing, keep the pictures coming, we love to see pictures!

Lee

 

[hunterridgefarm]

Greg,

That is a leaner. If your tractor was not beside the barn in that first pic I would have thought you were holding the camera crooked:laughing:

Put a few poles on the side to brace the barn. Once you start taking interior boards off and the exterior off that thing could collapse. Be safe.

The barn wood would look great in the interior. I don't think the lights would look good at all, I will buy them from you for $10.00 each and you can get some nice florescent lights.:thumbsup:

We have several old barns and building at my FIL old home place that I plan to recycle. He was also a pack rat and kept everything. When they torn down an old hospital he got all the old doors. We have around 40 old wooded doors stored in one of the barns. I was going to use them for an interior wall when we build our house but they have the glass in the top so that did not work out.

Keep us posted on the progress.

Is this your Dad's old barn? Are you originally from Mack-Dowel County?

David

 

[gregfender]

Greg, That is a leaner. If your tractor was not beside the barn in that first pic I would have thought you were holding the camera crooked:laughing: Put a few poles on the side to brace the barn. Once you start taking interior boards off and the exterior off that thing could collapse. Be safe. The barn wood would look great in the interior. I don't think the lights would look good at all, I will buy them from you for $10.00 each and you can get some nice florescent lights.:thumbsup: We have several old barns and building at my FIL old home place that I plan to recycle. He was also a pack rat and kept everything. When they torn down an old hospital he got all the old doors. We have around 40 old wooded doors stored in one of the barns. I was going to use them for an interior wall when we build our house but they have the glass in the top so that did not work out. Keep us posted on the progress. Is this your Dad's old barn? Are you originally from Mack-Dowel County? David

You know, I think I will try the lights but if they don't work out, you will be the first one I call! Actually, my Grandad built the barn back in the 1950s. My Dad used it to milk a few dairy cows and store stuff. Lots of stuff. And yes, I grew up on this land...left for my Air Force career, then came back here to settle here. Mack-Dowell county is an interesting place. But I do love North Cove...the north end of the county. You've probably driven right by if you've ever been to Linville or Boone. Feel free to stop by!