Mark @ Everlast

   / Mark @ Everlast #31  
4shorts said:
Could be but with the conversion it's supposed to work out the same distance and time. ;)

If the question gets answered it's going to be really interesting hearing the reason why the warranty period is two years shorter in Canada for the Everlast product than it is in the US.

Just watch, I bet it will be volume or market share or to keep cost down "we had to shorten the warranty period" which we all know is cow dung.

If those excuses are it I will see a new Miller in the near future. :thumbsup:
I think it just comes down to numbers. Somewhere some beancounter was going over a table of figures and reducing the warranty helped the bottom line.
It reminds me of something a friend told me when he was getting a home loan. My friend had good credit, and was always getting credit cards when they sent an offer in the mail. The loan officer told him that he would need to close some of those accounts. The reason was that he could go from no debt to big debt overnight. Those open cards represented potential debt.
And that may be how they figure into Everlasts accounting. For as long as those warrantys are out there, they represent potential costs to the company. They may need to hold some kind of capital to offset that potential cost. Or it may hurt the companys credit rating or something.
 
   / Mark @ Everlast #32  
Arcweld, there are people who have never heard of ESAB...except from a site like this, but that doesn't mean they aren't a strong company and are well established. We are well beyond "IF Everlast wants to compete in the American Market..." stage. We are competing and doing so quite well. We're well on the "majors" radar for sure...and they are privately acknowledging us and even talking with us about industry issues. We are growing exponentially every year. We sell nearly every unit we can produce and have invested heavily in our product. We have major marketing agreements in place with several national companies, sales agreements with many regional Airgas distributors, and a heavy e based direct market approach. (Something which Miller themselves have just adopted by selling directly off their website).

Again, it has nothing to do with the confidence level in the product, rather, the cost of distribution, warranty etc all figured in to stay competitive. Their shipping costs are much higher than ours. They have to freight everything in by rail. We are located right in a port town, just a few minutes from the port...Again, they pay a higher price than US through licensing etc. It's privately and independently owned. There are no "apples and oranges" here. A 3 year warranty is a three year warranty. A 5 year is a 5 year warranty. Sort of like telling someone that a lifetime warranty on a Craftsman product is less valid than one on Snapon. You may have personal feelings, and view each product and its marketing, quality, and country of origin differently, but the same general type of warranty applies...and a 9/16 wrench whether you pay 45.00 for it or 8.00 that is guaranteed for life still will turn the same screw and make the owner the same dollars per hour while doing it.

IF Miller puts a 3 year warranty on their product, and Everlast in Canada is willing to match it, then that says a lot about the product. We introduced the 5 year here back in 2008 with the introduction of our early IGBT line. We have confidence in it, or we'd be broke...and out of business by now if we couldn't stand behind it due to the cost it was costing us to do it, or run out of business by NOT standing behind it.

It's completely different marketing strategies. As I said earlier, they sell product we don't and we sell product they don't...they have different torch packages even. We have distribution in Canada, the US, Australlia, the EU, Africa, South America, Russia, New Zealand, and UAE...each licensed distributor is privately owned and distributed, and not directly owned and controlled by Everlast US (even though it is based in the U.S.). But we do give general direction, develop the product and work with them as they are still under our basic scope and contractual agreement. Each country has to meet standards locally as well that can affect the cost... and factor in ultimately to the warranty length versus the price point. In those countries, the warranty ranges from 2,3 and 5 years. Canada does have a service center as well as the US. Canada does a majority of their advertising on the web and they also travel to regional shows. They are smaller in distribution than the US, but coming along. Everyone has a right to "grow" a company. They're still several years behind us on that level...in size and scope. Unfortunately for both Everlast entities, the youth of our company, means not having a service center on every corner. BUT what it does mean that a single centralized service center offers better repairs because of more specialized factory training and equipment, and your machine isn't mixed in with two or three other brands and perhaps 40 or 50 models and some tech is having to jockey back and forth on repairs. There are some advantages, though having a repair center on every corner is nice for the customer, but not practical for a newer company that isn't 100 years old.

I guess if a person wants to spend 4 k-5k more for an Miller product, and is disappointed that Everlast isn't exactly the same as what Miller offers in the way of warranty and service centers, there's not much we can do or say to make a difference. I do think that is a bit drastic in regards to realistic expectations. I think if a lack of 2 additional years on our product'ss warranty even though it is equivalent in length and basic scope to Miller is enough to "sour" someone to go out and buy the vastly more expensive product, that Everlast was never in contention in the first place...at least that's how it seems....since the verdict already seemed to be in before I gave an explanation.
 
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   / Mark @ Everlast #33  
   / Mark @ Everlast #34  
So no more Kubota's in Canada either?
 
   / Mark @ Everlast #35  
The 5 year warranty could be a big selling point when competing against the long established brands. You can be sure that if Miller cut 2 years off the warranty for machines sold in Canada compared to the machines sold in the US, the Canadian customers and distributors wouldn't be sitting back and taking it!:censored::yell::punch:

I say apples and oranges in regards to, Miller markets and warranty's their machines in Canada pretty much the same as they do in the US. Even Esab in Canada and the US work closely with each other. The way Everlast seems to be set up is that, other than the name, they are totally separate companies with different products. I think this is a big drawback if they want to expand their N. American market. Esab is big in electrodes and wire here and some plasma equipment but for welding machines, they are hard to sell and parts back up isn't the greatest. There is an Esab warehouse in Edmonton but they don't carry many parts and most have to come from the US but some are stocked in Ontario. Waiting a week for common consumables is a big drawback for most.

A good example of a company hurting themselves/resting on their lorals(sp) is Thermal Dynamics. They invented Plasma cutting and not too long ago were the cream of the crop in Plasma. Now, while they have a decent machine, they haven't kept up with the competition in terms of new innovations and they don't seem to be doing much marketing other than extending the warranty to 4 years. They were also one of the first with small inverter machines. Thermadyne has even changed the name to Victor Technologies for the TD machines. It's an attempt to play off the Victor name that is so popular in oxy/fuel. It's one of those, you snooze, you lose type deals and the TD name has lost it's appeal. I think they need to do more than just change the name if they want to get back where they once were. I think if Everlast looked at N. America as a whole instead of having almost totally different strategies, they would have a lot better success in increasing their market share. Canada is a big market and Alberta especially for welding equipment. I would love to be able to try out an Everlast machine but I don't know of anyone that sells them here. I did talk to someone who was (apparently)interested in becoming a dealer for Everlast but they said his first order had to be something like $20,000 and they couldn't give him a firm date on when he would receive it. That's a lot of money to spend on a basically unknown name competing against established names like Miller, Lincoln and even Esab or Thermal Dynamics. Maybe it's just the Canadian licensee that doesn't really know a lot about marketing?
 
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   / Mark @ Everlast #36  
I think that TD/victor are having one of their best years ever. No one is resting on their accomplishments. They don't appear to be. We're certainly not. We're powering ahead with several announcements to come later in 2014. Not sure why a company would kill a long standing name, but more power to them if they make it work. Sort of like Miller killing the Smith name.

Canada knows about marketing. They just have different tactics and they're growing and making their own strides. They have a different market focus than we do.
 
   / Mark @ Everlast #37  
I don't understand it either,:confused3: only thing different from you guys and us, is a line drawn in the dirt. And I've been over that line a few times, guess what there isn't actually a line anyway.:laughing:

I remember back in the 60's when I went to Canada, I noticed a couple strange things right away.

One was seeing Ford pickups named "Mercury". :eek: I had to rub my eyes to make sure I wasn't hallucinating.
And the second thing was seeing "Imperial" gallons at the gas pumps.

Also, when the people talked too fast and proper for me to understand, I knew I wasn't in Kansas anymore. :D
 
   / Mark @ Everlast #38  
I remember back in the 60's when I went to Canada, I noticed a couple strange things right away.

One was seeing Ford pickups named "Mercury". :eek:

And Dodge pickups named "Fargo."

Bruce
 
   / Mark @ Everlast #39  
Thermadyne/Victor as a whole may be doing OK but dropping the Thermal Dynamics name, one can only speculate that the name has lost it's brand recognition/loyalty in the industry. The competition put more into R&D and and now TD has to try and get back to where they were. They're doing some weird things at Victor. Have you seen the new 400 series torches with what looks like plastic handles? We got some in and sent them back. Not everybody holds a torch the same way or likes the valves in the same position. With these torches, you don't have a choice. The plastic handle is molded like a big hand grip. :confused3: They'd suck even worse if you had small hands or were left handed. :duh: They even marked the valves red and green and which way to turn them on and off. A cutting torch isn't new technology and it certainly isn't rocket science to figure out which valve is which or how to open and close them. If anyone actually needed that information, they should be as far away as possible from the high pressure and potentially explosive cylinders!:banghead:

I just saw this on a Victor site. Are they basically saying they're catering to inexperienced young foreign workers who are abusing equipment?

The 400 Series features a contoured, high-strength alloy torch handle that fits naturally in most operators’ hands. While lighter than a brass handle, the new handle better resists abuse, and it balances well when hoses and attachments are connected.

To simplify use, Victor color-coded and labeled the oxygen and fuel valves for instant identification and easier operation by indicating directions for open and closed valve positions.

“Until now, it was very difficult for an inexperienced worker to effectively and intuitively identify gas valves,” says John Henderson, Group Brand Manager, Victor Technologies. “The 400 Series torch provides operators with the visual acuity necessary for safe and effective oxy-fuel cutting, even if English isn’t their first language.”

Henderson notes that design changes to simplify use help companies cope with the retirement of skilled operators and need to hire younger, less-skilled workers or workers who speak English as a second language. The durability of the torch handle also improves longevity in situations where tools receive rough treatment, a feature specifically requested by the supervisors interviewed during product development.

I'm guessing Miller wanted a torch line since Lincoln has Harris and Smith was available? Smith is a very good brand but just not as popular, at least up here. The school I went to had all Smith torches. Seems to me it would be better to keep the Smith name as a division of Miller, the same way Harris is a division of Lincoln?

Somebody was crazy enough about a Mercury, they wrote a song about it. LoL
Go to Newfoundland and try to understand what they're saying. If you can understand that, you should get a masters degree in communications. I was just reading about the German Enigma cypher machines used in WW II that they believed the code couldn't be broken. It was and experts say it shortened the war by 2-4 years. Now if the Germans would have used Newfie language...:laughing:
 
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   / Mark @ Everlast #40  
^ I was looking at those plastic torches just last week at AirLiquide. I literally LOLed at them. Plastic.. on a torch! What a stupid idea. You know its not the BS spin ( longevity in situations where tools receive rough treatment) that victor is trying to put on them.. Its plastic is cheaper than brass. Keep chasing those pennys Victor.

Something else that was disturbing... I was close to buying a Metabo 5" grinder, till I flipped it over.. Made in China! WTF! Metabo gone to china too:mad:
 

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