PTO Generator

[MacTractor]

Thanks for the input.

The issue for me I think is that I would expect an outage to be a very rare event but something that I would now rather be prepared for. This outage caught us by surprise and and the worst time (over Xmas). If I were down frequently, I would for sure buy a standby automatic unit as it would be worth the investment. The whole incident with the portable unit really put me off as it is just another engine that I have to maintain and cross fingers that it works when needed. I know the tractor works as I use it all the time. I understand it will be a PITA to unhook for snow blowing but for me it is better than having what I have going on this week.

A propane unit is out of equationtion as I do have propane for fireplace cook topktop but I would need a much bigger tank as once the snow flies, I can't get propane delivery due to a steep long driveway. (I only have a 500lb tank) I would also love a standby Kubota or other diesel Genset but the $$$ is too high compared to a PTO genset.

I will look up the Tiger Power unit. I think for me the issue in sizing comes the Q and A section here:

Voltmaster PTO15/12 PTO Generator - PTO15/12 - 12 kW Tractor-Driven PTO Generator (540 RPM)

Basically saying that if I buy a generator above the 9KW I will risk damaging the generator?

 

[Raw Dodge]

I have always thought about a pto gen but then the thought of running the tractor for hours on end was not something I wanted to do. I think that is the cheaper way to go but have you looked at stand alone units?

The only concern I'd have is having a fuel supply...if you run it hours on end,if your doing maintenance as needed it won't do anything to harm it ..after all why have it if your afraid to use it within it's designed parameters..

 

[buickanddeere]

That's probably pushing it a bit. The 2305 has 18 PTO HP. With ~2 PTO HP required per kW, that would be 9kW. I suggest the 12kW (check any website that sell PTO generators for confirmation) would work...the 15 kW Winco is probably too much...

The 2HP per KW rule of thumb is allowing for starting surges. And to avoid shortening engine life of gen sets by working the engine at 100% power continuously. The actual continuous HP demand for 1KW is very close to 1.5HP.
For a few hours of days a year. The 2305 will howl along just fine carrying up to 12KW electrical load.

 

[buickanddeere]

Always better carrying a 12KW load on a 15KW pto generator instead of 12KW on a 12.5KW generator. Particularly in the summer heat.

 

[alco141]

i have run two 90% high efficiency furnaces for 8-10 hrs at a time from my winco 10 kw generator, never had a problem with either one, your mileage may vary. did not have trouble with my satellite system, television, dvd player, so in my case with my equipment all my stuff including computers, have had no problems with my 9kw winco trifuel, i have also run the house off a generac 25 kw pto generator connected to my 19 hp pto new holland, set the generator on 62hz unloaded when i added the load it settles to 60 hz on the freq meter and 110 v, have not had any electronics blow up or any other horror stories to tell you about running my house off a generator for 8-10 hrs these are the longest power outages i have had. sold the generac to a friend that needed it a lot more than i did, thinking about a harbor freight unit as a back up.

alex

 

[alco141]

the biggest issue i had with the pto unit was my wife and daughters could not hook it up if i was not there, the winco you wheel outside, plug in the cable start the generator and throw the transfer switch. they could handle this.

 

[RFB]

I went through this decision process about 3 years ago and settled upon a dedicated genset and manual tfer switch.

I went with a manual because we get many 10 second or less outages, and sometimes several in a few minutes, that I did not want regular short run operation and changeover cycles.

The genset included a 100 gallon belly tank with a Kubota diesel matched to a 45kw generator. I bought it from Central Maine Diesel.

 

[MikePA]

I went with a manual because we get many 10 second or less outages, and sometimes several in a few minutes, that I did not want regular short run operation and changeover cycles.

The nice feature of the APC automatic transfer switch I had installed is it has a generator start delay that can be set from 30 seconds to 10 minutes. It also has a generator stop delay that has several options so the generator can run at no load for a selectable time after utility power is restored.

 

[Briar Hill Brittanys]

The nice feature of the APC automatic transfer switch I had installed is it has a generator start delay that can be set from 30 seconds to 10 minutes. It also has a generator stop delay that has several options so the generator can run at no load for a selectable time after utility power is restored.

I'm in the standalone generator with an auto transfer switch camp. Our 20kW Siemens unit starts up and runs once a week for 12 minutes. It will start up and stabilize RPM, voltage, and freq. before switching. We decided on a unit big enough to handle the total requirements of our 1800 sf total electric house. The 200A SE rated transfer switch mounts next to the meter base, connecting the meter base and main panel. No guessing if we have enough power to run whatever. It's powered by propane, and is easily made to run on natural gas by moving a lever under the air breather. After grid power is restored and the genset senses it's stable, the transfer switch does its thing. The motor will continue to run for a preset cooldown time. No problems with this unit after 5 years in operation. I have had to replace the starting battery twice, and the battery charger module once. Both conditions were brought to my attention by the diagnostics onboard the unit. It has never failed to start, run, generate, and complete the shutdown cycle either during a test, or when needed due to a power failure. We have a JD 1020 tractor, I know I need it for cleanup and other chores after a storm. I'm sure my wife could hook up a PTO rig, but why bother? I know cost can be a big factor, we did it and never looked back. First time it came on because the power was off, she looked at me with a big grin on her face and said, " best money we've spent in a long time". Hard to put a price on piece of mind. I will add, we had endured 12 days in the winter of 07, and 3 days in early summer of 08 with power outages. Oh, as far as having another motor to maintain, oil change intervals are 200 hours or yearly. Just my humble opinion. Mark

 

[Industrial Toys]

Just thought I would put in my two cents worth.

I used to have an Onan 15KW PTO genset that I bought cheap from a defunct chicken farm. It worked well and ran my entire electically heated house. Used to throw the main switch and open up a splitter box making the connections with some big booster cable clamps. NICE!

I ran it first with a 42 HP Universal tractor and later with my JD 770.

The thing is, I never liked leaving a tractor running unatended. The Universal hydraulics once failed while running the generator and I never got that repaired right again.

The 770 would have to run at full tilt and that just doesn't sit well with me. Besides, there are typically no safety shut downs on tractors. You could develop an oil leak, break a fan belt, ect! I bought a 2-1 pto gearbox hoping that I could run the tractor at half speed with very little load requirments, but that simply didn't work at all.

Now I have an Onan 7.5 Industrial genset, 1800rpm. Came out of a bookmobile and I had to get it rewound. Plus I bought a 200 amp transfer switch off E-Bay.

There really are a lot of very nice used commercial gensets available at any time it seems.

 

[RalphVa]

18 hp = 13.2 kw.

Ralph

 

[RalphVa]

I went through the debate with myself a year or so ago and ended up installing a 12.5kw diesel generator from Central Maine Diesel and had an electrician install a new 200 amp panel with auto transfer switch. The generator powers almost everything except the 4 ton heat pump and some other big loads, but it does our little ductless heat pump system in the basement and 2.5 ton heat pump in the upstairs plus well pump, 2 freezers, 2 frigs, virtually all the lights and even our one hot water heater on load management (the clothes dryer and kitchen stovetop are also on load management). It ran last year for 15 minutes every 2 weeks and once for about 4 hours or so in the middle of the night during a power failure. Used 2.5 gallons of diesel for the year.

Cost was about $15k for everything.

Problem with PTO generators is 1) need lots of diesel on hand and constant refueling if out for more than 6 or 8 hours (probably all yours will run on a full tank), 2) you'll need the tractor for snow clearing or clearing downed trees, 3) pain to connect up.

We lived with these problems (excl. #2) with a 4 kw gasoline generator for about 5 or 6 years. It, of course, wouldn't power that much either, but we got by during several power failures and didn't lose any refrigerated or frozen food. 'twas a real pain and safety issue keeping a bunch of gasoline around.

Now, I refuel my tractor from the gen's 60 gallon tank and every so often go and buy some more containers of diesel and pour them back, replenishing and keeping the fuel fresh.

One problem you divert with a PTO generator is how to keep the battery up. On a standby generator, you need a battery tender. Learned this while having the 4 kw one. However, the battery tender went out on the 12.5 kw gen recently and let the battery run down (the gen battery also powers the LED lights and controls on the ATS panel). Do not buy a battery tender that does the voltage conversion at the plug. They fail where the wire gets bent when you close the weather proof box where they're plugged in. I have a weather proof battery tender on it now.

Ralph

 

[Industrial Toys]

My thinking when I considered the PTO genset was that one always has a functioning tractor on hand. No need to worry about all that auxilliary stuff. Batteries, coolant, oil! But it's true, digging the PTO genset out in the dark, disconnecting whatever might be attached to the tractor, because it seems that more often then not, there is usually something on there, is just a royal PITA! At first I had mine on a 3PT skid of sorts. A real pain, and later built a really nice trailer so I could wheel it around by hand.

Although my Onan never gave me a lick of trouble, I was told it was not particularly the Cadilac of gensets. It was not brushless and rotated at a very high speed, being geared up internally.

Don't get me wrong. If I had lots of money, and space to store it, I would have a PTO genset just as backup or to possibly lend out. For if you put your faith in one backup, it will surely fail. I believe in backups for your backups for your backups! Right now, I have the Onan 7.5 Industrial with a Kubota 3 cyl, a 3600 RPM, 3.7 Yanmar, and a 3000 Watt Alpha Commercial Inverter with 48 Volt battery bank.

Unfortunatley my inverter charger does not like the power from the Onan 7.5 and I can't recharge my batteries so the inverter is kind of a one time thing until the batteries are done. I use it mostly at night when I don't need a generator running just to keep the fridge cold.

 

[ruffdog]

Time to put a generator on the wife's exercise bike! It will keep her legs in shape for the summer when she has to pull stumps.

 

[Willie B]

Time to put a generator on the wife's exercise bike! It will keep her legs in shape for the summer when she has to pull stumps.

My friend, a romantic devil bought for his wife's birthday, a new tire for her wheel barrow. They live in a pine forest, where 40 years ago they built a house, removing only enough trees for the footprint of the house. No surprise, the trees now dwarf the house. As a tree dies, he attaches a rope high in the tree, sets up his equipment, and recruits his wife to pull the rope, guiding the direction of fall. He became concerned, she's not as quick as she once was. As a gift with no occasion, he bought her a longer rope. Now she doesn't have as far to run. If that doesn't illustrate true love, nothing does.

 

[ruffdog]

My friend, a romantic devil bought for his wife's birthday, a new tire for her wheel barrow. They live in a pine forest, where 40 years ago they built a house, removing only enough trees for the footprint of the house. No surprise, the trees now dwarf the house. As a tree dies, he attaches a rope high in the tree, sets up his equipment, and recruits his wife to pull the rope, guiding the direction of fall. He became concerned, she's not as quick as she once was. As a gift with no occasion, he bought her a longer rope. Now she doesn't have as far to run. If that doesn't illustrate true love, nothing does.

Ha! Been there and done that!

 

[2Buckslake]

RalphVa pretty much hit it on the head. I work at a company building commercial diesel powered gensets. I too had a PTO generator that I ran off of my NH tractor, until I started building them. PTO generators work best if the load amps are constant, you can set the throttle and not worry too much. However, in a house situation, the loads are ever changing. Most tractor governors are not tight enough to keep that speed constant, as the load changes. If you are running at PTO speed on your tractor, and add a bunch of heavy loads, this will make the rpm's drop because the tractor engine governor is not set up for that demand. If you increase the speed to carry that load, and then the load decreases, it will cause the engine speed on your tractor to increase. That also cause an increase in hertz, well above what it should be. That's why I built a diesel powered 20kw generator with an electronic governor, which will maintain the correct hertz, no matter what the load demand is. I have it hooked thru an automatic transfer switch, which will start the generator when I lose utility power. I live out in the country, and being on a well for water means I have no water in a power outage. So much for living in the country. If you live in the city, an LPG or NG powered generator is a wise choice, if you can stand the cost. Just a few thoughts on my part....

 

[looch]

I've spent some (a lot of) time looking over the various threads on PTO generators, and if I missed it I apologize, but I have a question regarding capacity.

My 3/4 hp jet pump is powered by a 110v circuit. I measured inrush to be around 58A and running to be 11.5A. Obviously, there is some electrical voodoo going on since the pump coming on doesn't trip the 20A breaker - something to do with the impossibility of providing that much power, so the voltage drops - but I know that is a whole topic unto itself.

Let's say, for argument's sake that I have one 110V device that requires 5000 watts.
The generator will be connected to the house via an L14-30 to a manual transfer switch, powering a subset of selected circuits.
The generator has an output of 7200/7800 watts running/surge.

Will it power my single, 110V, 5000 watt (surge, 1500 watts running) circuit? Or, is the 7200 watts only available on 240 with the maximum power for 110 being half of that (3600)?

I suppose it would be advisable to convert that pump to 220 - that would render the question moot, but I'm curious nonetheless.

 

[MikeInEburg]

Most generators use a capacity rating at 240 volts - I would guess that a 7800 surge generator would supply only 3900 watts at 120V. Even if you don't use a generator, you're do well to convert to 240V - especially if your pump will go either way. I'm looking for a 10K PTO generator, simply to avoid virtually the same issue. Mike

 

[Willie B]

During start up of a motor the inrush of current can overload a generator or more accurately a number of components can overload to failure. If start up of motors overloads the engine, it will slow, frequency will fall, voltage will fall. As power is the balance of voltage and current, if the same job is to be done or the same amount of power is used, when voltage falls current rises, as failure proceeds current skyrockets. As current skyrockets, voltage loss in the circuit increases,it all goes exponential! If the breaker doesn't trip soon enough windings or electronic components overheat and melt. It is likely your Kubota will have adequate torque to muscle the motor to start preventing failure.

If load is applied at 240 volts the whole generator winding shares load. loss in circuit is less than half. The motor supplied with adequate voltage, starts quickly with less inrush current. You smile and feel smart for having done the right thing.