My New 4in1 Bucket Came In!

[ovrszd]

Yep, I agree. I've watched an experienced operator use a 4n1. They definitely fill a niche. I use a Grapple 90% of the time on my FEL. I still need (want) a 4n1.

 

[RDrancher]

I've gathered about 50 pictures of buckets. There are several ways to go about this. I look at it as a challenge. I'll give it a try someday. Thanks for sharing your pictures, they are in my file for sure. I really like the way yours is built. Only thing I couldn't determine from the pics is how the bucket apron is built, as in what thickness, is it doubled somewhere to add strength, etc. I can see how it's built at the teeth, was more concerned about the back end where it meets the blade.

Here you go. 1/4" thick on the bucket. The back of the bucket is wrapped over the top full length and welded to the back face 2"x4" tubing top and bottom. The quick attach plates are welded to these too. There are 1/2" plates on the side edges of the bucket and 1/2" material is also used to protect the cylinders. The side plates of the jaw section are all 1/2" as are the hinges, braces and wear strips on the bottom of the bucket. As you can see in the photo, the wear strips extend out past the sides of the bucket and are welded to the side plates and 1/2" x 6" cutting edge. The dozer cutting edge is 3/4" x 6" and the clamshell cutting edge 3/4" x 4". The inside floor extends 20" forward from the forward edge of the clamshell cutting edge. The 3/4" x 6" front cutting edge extends 4" forward from the floor.


Let me know if you need anything else. Glad to help.

 

[ovrszd]

Let me know if you need anything else. Glad to help.

John,

Thank you very much. Very valuable information!!! Really appreciate you taking the time to gather all that data and for the great pics. Got my creative juices flowing now!!!!

 

[deerseeker001]

that Bucket with those teeth will do some serious digging.

 

[MorningViewStables]

Any other pictures you might have of your bucket I would appreciate. Thanks!!!

Here are a few of the Frontier AY12G. It has a double bottom with a arch to strengthen it and to force breakup of pack clay or dirt as it crossed it so it doesn't stick like a smooth flat bottom creating resistance. Also has a 1" blade front and rear of the clam.

 

[ovrszd]

MorningViewStables,,, thank you very much for taking the time to post these pics. They show everything I need to see about the construction of your Frontier 4n1. Added them to my file. I'm running out of excuses to not try to build one of these!!!! Thanks again!!!

 

[wsc9tt]

Yep, I agree. I've watched an experienced operator use a 4n1. They definitely fill a niche. I use a Grapple 90% of the time on my FEL. I still need (want) a 4n1.

Anyone know of a good video on youtube that shows what an experienced operator can do with a 4n1? All the ones I have seen are, "look I can pick up the last of my gravel pile"

 

[Verticaltrx]

I would really like a 4in1 bucket for my skid steer, just hasn't been in the budget yet. For a lot of the grading, excavating and cleanup work I do it would be great. A grapple is best in the woods, but for all around versatility a 4in1 is hard to beat.

For those who wonder about the uses of a 4in1, here are a couple videos from International/Drott who, as far as I know, invented the 4in1 bucket. No doubt you have a lot more digging and dozing force with a crawler loader, but the principles are the same for a skid steer or tractor:

 

[Verticaltrx]

Part 2:

 

[RDrancher]

Anyone know of a good video on youtube that shows what an experienced operator can do with a 4n1? All the ones I have seen are, "look I can pick up the last of my gravel pile"

Unless someone here has one bookmarked, you'll probably only find it by chance while looking at grading / excavation videos.

Edit...and Vert had it! :thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

I am aware what a normal bucket does but what is there a 4 in 1 does that a normal bucket can't do?

I have a 4n1 and consider it a Swiss Army Knife. Not great at anything but handy and better than just a standard bucket if you can only have one implement on the FEL. That said, I tend to use the 4n1 only when I am using my backhoe. It is handy to be able to pick up something you've just dug out (rock, stump, tree) and move it and then come back with the same implement and fill in the hole and grade the soil. The "bulldozer" capability with the bucket opened up can be useful as you can see over the top of the blade much more clearly than you can see over the top of a bucket but one needs to be cautious when dozing as tractor FELs really are not built for that. One capability that I virtually never use is to open the bucket, tilt it down and back drag with the upper blade. It might be useful for final smoothing of dirt but the risk of snagging something and bending the most vulnerable part of the 4n1 needs to be considered.

One thing the 4n1 SUCKS at is carrying brush. The nature of the clamp joint with the opening on the bottom means that whatever the largest object that gets clamped in the joint will determine whether anything below that will stay in the bucket. If, using an extreme example, you try to pick up a load of brush that has a short length of 2x4 on top and that 2x4 is positioned so it contacts the clamping edge, then the bucket will not close any further and nothing in the pile below the 2x4 will be secured (and will immediately fall out when you lift the load). That is an extreme example but a more common one is to have a pile of saplings laid in parallel to pick up. Open the bucket, lower it over the pile and clamp. Typically only a couple of the saplings will be secured and anything below the largest sapling in the joint will fall out as soon as you lift up. Imagine picking up a pile of different sized dowels with one hand fingers pointed down and kept rigid. If all the smaller dowels are stacked neatly on top of the bigger dowels then you can pick them all up. If they are mixed up however, any small dowel below a bigger dowel will not be clamped in your fingers and will fall out. Same issue with the joint of the 4n1 clamp being at the top of the bucket. Same issue with clamshell grapples to some extent.

If I were doing construction and could have just one implement on the FEL, I'd take a 4n1. If I were clearing brush I would take a grapple. If I were moving dirt and clearing brush, I would put on the grapple, clamp the standard bucket in the grapple and take it with me. 4n1 truly is awful for brush work.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Unless someone here has one bookmarked, you'll probably only find it by chance while looking at grading / excavation videos.

Edit...and Vert had it! :thumbsup:

Those videos make me wish it were spring so I could get out and do some dirt work, lol.

 

[RDrancher]

Those videos make me wish it were spring so I could get out and do some dirt work, lol.

Boy, you've got that right. Even here in Texas it's been either sleet, snow or rain for the last few weeks. Either that or it's too wet to work dirt. We have freezing drizzle this morning with more on the way tomorrow. This weekend, it's supposed to be in the 70's!

Interesting that International gave the TD designation to their track loaders as well as their dozers. Later, they changed the loaders to 100, 125, 175 and 250. I was a lowly laborer and pool trimmer back in the late 70's, but I did get to run both the 100's and 125's as much as they'd let me. I remember (like it was yesterday)the first time my boss sent me out by myself with a TD15 dozer to cut in a new hillside road. I was in heaven!

The ROPS were removed on the two 100's we used for pool digs. It didn't seem like a big deal back then, but there were a couple of times during that second video that it was scaring the cr*p outta me!

 

[Verticaltrx]

Boy, you've got that right. Even here in Texas it's been either sleet, snow or rain for the last few weeks. Either that or it's too wet to work dirt. We have freezing drizzle this morning with more on the way tomorrow. This weekend, it's supposed to be in the 70's!

Interesting that International gave the TD designation to their track loaders as well as their dozers. Later, they changed the loaders to 100, 125, 175 and 250. I was a lowly laborer and pool trimmer back in the late 70's, but I did get to run both the 100's and 125's as much as they'd let me. I remember (like it was yesterday)the first time my boss sent me out by myself with a TD15 dozer to cut in a new hillside road. I was in heaven!

The ROPS were removed on the two 100's we used for pool digs. It didn't seem like a big deal back then, but there were a couple of times during that second video that it was scaring the cr*p outta me!

While I'd love to have an old crawler loader, it's amazing to think that the large skid steers and CTLs have almost made them obsolete. While neither will push near what a crawler will, the modern equipment is so fast and nimble I wouldn't be surprised if you could move as much dirt in an hour with your new machine as the old IH loaders. I know even for my 1845C Case touted it as a replacement for the small dozer back in their earlier literature (for some jobs). One thing I do know, a true crawler can't be beat for working slopes or working in the woods.

Those videos gave me some good ideas for some mods, I like the indicators on the cylinders for bucket level and clam shell opening.

 

[wsc9tt]

Those videos were really cool, but my guess is that is a very poor indication of what I can expect when I put a 4n1 bucket on a 50hp loader tractor.

Also they kept lifting heavy objects way above the operator. One false move and you roll a tree back on yourself.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Those videos were really cool, but my guess is that is a very poor indication of what I can expect when I put a 4n1 bucket on a 50hp loader tractor.

Also they kept lifting heavy objects way above the operator. One false move and you roll a tree back on yourself.

That is probably true. A tractor doesn't have the best loader geometry for digging, nor the weight. I have a tooth bar for my B3200 and it will dig some, but nothing like even a tiny skid steer, which has more weight and better geometry. You also have to realize, those crawler loaders were probably in the 12,000lb+ range (just a guess) and had a bucket about the same width as a good sized tractor or skid steer. The amount of machine weight vs bucket/blade width is what makes them dig and doze so well.

A little off topic, but I just love these old equipment promotional videos, IH, Allis-Chalmers and Ford all made lots of good ones, have not seen many for Deere. Another good one on IH dozers (their views on the environment in those days were so different than today it makes me laugh a little):

 

[MorningViewStables]

Anyone know of a good video on youtube that shows what an experienced operator can do with a 4n1? All the ones I have seen are, "look I can pick up the last of my gravel pile"

Agreed! I have a 4-in-1 and can work circles around the people showing videos on YouTube. Some are simply embarrassing to watch for an owner of a 4-in-1. I would post some, but I am not willing to go out and spend money on a video camera just to prove to other people the 4-in-1 is best for me and my operations. Sorry. I can tell you that they do much more than what you see on YouTube. People need to quit comparing them to Grapple Forks. They are *not* 2 different tools to do the same job.

 

[RDrancher]

While I'd love to have an old crawler loader, it's amazing to think that the large skid steers and CTLs have almost made them obsolete. While neither will push near what a crawler will, the modern equipment is so fast and nimble I wouldn't be surprised if you could move as much dirt in an hour with your new machine as the old IH loaders. I know even for my 1845C Case touted it as a replacement for the small dozer back in their earlier literature (for some jobs). One thing I do know, a true crawler can't be beat for working slopes or working in the woods.

I'm in agreement. It's amazing how much dirt a 2 spd CTL can move (on the right job). That said, larger track loaders are making a comeback and some would argue that they never left. The newer track loaders are pretty quick too, with hydrostat and all. On one of my more recent jobs, another contractor was there with his CAT 953. In the time it took me to get a little swale done with my tractor, the operator dug a borrow pit over fifteen feet deep and used that and 200 yards of imported dirt to mix, spread and roll in a 200ft square building pad. No CTL can do that as fast. There's nothing like a 30,000lb machine to get things done.

Those videos were really cool, but my guess is that is a very poor indication of what I can expect when I put a 4n1 bucket on a 50hp loader tractor.

I'm with you on that too. Personally I would never put a 4n1 on my tractor. I wouldn't want to reduce the loader lifting weight that much. I can see the bucket being real handy for a lot of ranch and farm work though, like cleaning up turnouts and hauling manure.

Edit: Case in point...I bet the bucket works great for MorningViewStables!

 

[Verticaltrx]

I'm in agreement. It's amazing how much dirt a 2 spd CTL can move (on the right job). That said, larger track loaders are making a comeback and some would argue that they never left. The newer track loaders are pretty quick too, with hydrostat and all. On one of my more recent jobs, another contractor was there with his CAT 953. In the time it took me to get a little swale done with my tractor, the operator dug a borrow pit over fifteen feet deep and used that and 200 yards of imported dirt to mix, spread and roll in a 200ft square building pad. No CTL can do that as fast. There's nothing like a 30,000lb machine to get things done.

Very true, I've hired out some work to guys with 953 and 963 Cats and it's amazing how much they can do. I one time had 2ac of logged land to clean up for a pasture and hire a 953C Cat. I was amazed how he could just dig those 20" oak stumps out of the ground in a few minutes, the smaller stumps he just pushed out without barely slowing down. Another job where we had to complete reshape a couple acres around a new house. The contractor had a 963 cat with just a tooth bucket and he laid an almost perfect grade. I think the popularity of excavators has taken a big chunk out of the crawler loader market.

 

[RDrancher]

No 4in1 here, but as long as we're on the discussion of track loaders... Vantagetes has some nice videos showing their abilities. Cat 973C Cutting Around Manhole - YouTube