FUEL PROBLEMS with Ethonal

[3930dave]

....Man, I am probably one of the few that want it all.... wind, nuclear, NG, propane, solar, gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, ethanol, hydrogen, etc, etc, etc. I want every type of fuel and power source available so that energy is cheap and abundant. That is a very capitalist idea. Not every fuel or power source is perfect for all situations.

With you there Cuhead.

I'd like to see a lot more public NatGas stations - most of Canada/USA has plenty of NG available, and it's the cleanest burning hydrocarbon there is. With better personal cash flow, I'd already have a home NG compressor station installed, and a relatively (by my standards ) late model NG vehicle in the driveway.

I personally resent being compelled to buy ethanol tainted gasoline.

At the same time, I've seen enough of the world to appreciate that whatever lobbying the Corn growers do, it's choirboy stuff compared to what Big Oil has been up to, for longer than I've been around. Like the frog in the pan of rising temperature water.... we've been conditioned to not notice Big Oil.... Pay no attention, to the Man behind the Curtain....

Buy Efree gas if you can find it; if not, use one of the quality additives named esp. in low use equipment.

Rgds, D.

 

[DarkBlack]

What subsidies? All subsidies targeted at ethanol have been eliminated for a few years now. Now, oil.... they still get some subsidies that they have gotten for over a century. Why are you not crying foul over the oil companies getting taxpayer money? Subsidies are actual money transfers to an entity. There is no such animal for the ethanol folks now, and hasn't been for a few years now.

Get real.
We're not even allowed to buy straight gas without buying crap ethanol. That's the greatest form of subsidy that can exist.

 

[DarkBlack]

It's really, really, simple.

Let consumers have a choice at all gas stations, for all people. Those who want ethanol laced gas can buy that. Those who want 100% real gas can buy real gas at another pump. The market will work itself out.
That's how a free country, and a free market would work.

 

[arrow]

It's really, really, simple.

Let consumers have a choice at all gas stations, for all people. Those who want ethanol laced gas can buy that. Those who want 100% real gas can buy real gas at another pump. The market will work itself out.
That's how a free country, and a free market would work.

I agree it's that simple but for one thing: If someone or group is government connected and they stand a chance to profit, there goes the free enterprise system. One cannot speak of this crap without attaching a political agenda because it's already attached like a Siamese twin. If sensibilities and logic fail to apply, then it's political and the market is "engineered" and not free..

 

[Copperhead]

Get real.
We're not even allowed to buy straight gas without buying crap ethanol. That's the greatest form of subsidy that can exist.

I am real. Mandate to buy the stuff does not mean a subsidy. The producers are still at the mercy of the market exchange price for their product. It is not like they can set the price just because you have to buy it. They can only get what the market buyer will pay for it, and no subsidies. You are required to buy license plates, but that doesn't set the price for aluminum. Many folks are required to get building permits to add a deck to their house, but that doesn't set the price for wood.

 

[Copperhead]

Get real.
We're not even allowed to buy straight gas without buying crap ethanol. That's the greatest form of subsidy that can exist.

I am real. Mandate to buy the stuff does not mean a subsidy. The producers are still at the mercy of the market exchange price for their product. It is not like they can set the price just because you have to buy it. They can only get what the market buyer will pay for it, and no subsidies. You are required to buy license plates, but that doesn't set the price for aluminum. Many folks are required to get building permits to add a deck to their house, but that doesn't set the price for wood.

A mandate to use the stuff doesn't dictate who makes it. It can come from Iowa or Brazil or any number of places. And it is a business. If there isn't going to be a profit, then no one will brew it. And profit margins are not a big as you might think.

 

[DarkBlack]

I am real. Mandate to buy the stuff does not mean a subsidy. The producers are still at the mercy of the market exchange price for their product. It is not like they can set the price just because you have to buy it. They can only get what the market buyer will pay for it, and no subsidies. You are required to buy license plates, but that doesn't set the price for aluminum. Many folks are required to get building permits to add a deck to their house, but that doesn't set the price for wood.

A mandate to use the stuff doesn't dictate who makes it. It can come from Iowa or Brazil or any number of places. And it is a business. If there isn't going to be a profit, then no one will brew it. And profit margins are not a big as you might think.

Webster dictionary:

"Financial assistance, either through direct payments or through indirect means such as price cuts and favourable contracts,
to a person or group in order to promote a public objective."

Forcing gasoline buyers to also have to buy ethanol with their gasoline purchase, is an "indirect means" to provide "Financial assistance" to the ethanol industry.

My previous statements stand correct.

 

[Copperhead]

Well, apply that to the oil companies and such then. Apply it to whomever you choose. One thing is, you are not forced to buy anything. You choose to. You can ride a bicycle if you want. I suggest if you are having a seizure over this stuff, that you boycott all internal combustion engines and retrograde to the 19th century. Then you will find something else to bellyache about.

That is the major flaw in your argument anyway. You claim you are having this forced on you. No you aren't. No one in the government told you that you had to buy a gasoline vehicle. There are VW's and a lot of other vehicles that run on diesel or electricity. If this ethanol thing is going to chap your hide, then just don't buy it. Problem solved! You are not out anything since you won't be buying it, and you are not having your money taken from you and given to the ethanol producers. Now, wasn't this solution easy?

You can buy diesel lawn mowers, UTV's and a host of other things. You could be gasoline free if you chose to, then you can laugh at all of us that still buy it. You will feel better and not risk blowing a gasket over this. It is like the patient who went to the doctor and said, "doc, it hurts when I do this". Doc replies, "well then, don't do that!"

 

[Bota4me]

Well, apply that to the oil companies and such then. Apply it to whomever you choose. One thing is, you are not forced to buy anything. You choose to. You can ride a bicycle if you want. I suggest if you are having a seizure over this stuff, that you boycott all internal combustion engines and retrograde to the 19th century. Then you will find something else to bellyache about. That is the major flaw in your argument anyway. You claim you are having this forced on you. No you aren't. No one in the government told you that you had to buy a gasoline vehicle. There are VW's and a lot of other vehicles that run on diesel or electricity. If this ethanol thing is going to chap your hide, then just don't buy it. Problem solved! You are not out anything since you won't be buying it, and you are not having your money taken from you and given to the ethanol producers. Now, wasn't this solution easy? You can buy diesel lawn mowers, UTV's and a host of other things. You could be gasoline free if you chose to, then you can laugh at all of us that still buy it. You will feel better and not risk blowing a gasket over this. It is like the patient who went to the doctor and said, "doc, it hurts when I do this". Doc replies, "well then, don't do that!"

problem is i cant find a diesel chainsaw, dirtbike or weed wacker!! Lol

 

[F3506]

I've read that ethanol will separate, float to the top, after a short time. One could theoretically skim it off? I have no idea if this is true.

You've got the basic concept. I bought a test tube kit that tests for the percent of ethanol in gasoline so I knew if I was getting too much ethanol. The way it works is you add water to the tube and then add fuel. It super saturates the fuel and all the ethanol combines with the water and drops to the bottom (not the top). It's easy to see in a clear container and you can then drain the water/ethanol from the container if you've got a drain on the bottom of the jug.

After a quick google search I found this video. My test tube and procedure looks the same. You can see how quickly the ethanol drops out with the water. Ethanol Testing - YouTube