pto generator?

[HK45]

Thanks for all the info guys. I think I'm going to go with the PTO. My wife don't want to spend 6-7 thousand on a hole house generator. 2 of my neighbors have the hole house and 250 gallon propane tanks, they only last 2 days and there empty. When the power was out for a week they had a hard time getting propane delivered, and they told me they spent a small fortune because the propane company charged alot to come out.

 

[newbury]

Thanks for all the info guys. I think I'm going to go with the PTO. My wife don't want to spend 6-7 thousand on a hole house generator. 2 of my neighbors have the hole house and 250 gallon propane tanks, they only last 2 days and there empty. When the power was out for a week they had a hard time getting propane delivered, and they told me they spent a small fortune because the propane company charged alot to come out.

Well there goes some of the value of my arguments

BUT

dont forget you can always take that PTO genny with you to build fences in the back 40.... drive it down to a neighbors house that lost power when the drunk hit his pole out front etc.

Hard to do either of those with a stationary "house" unit.

On the upside to the house version is you an get NG version that will run off the gas supply that is ALWAYS on, and you never run out of fuel. but Id take the portability over avoiding the logistics of having to have diesel on hand.

Others point out that there may be times when you want to use the tractor and the genny at the same time. That tornado comes through and you need power, but you'd also like to have the tractor to clean downed trees etc. My response to that is, I could use the 2 hr break to come inside to the air conditioning and cool off and get some lunch while the genny runs the house "recharges" the refrig etc. Then ill go back out for another 4 hrs of pushing trees around. The kids dont need to play xbox all the time.

Not everyone has NG, the OP didn't indicate he has NG. And when "disaster" strikes sometimes the NG goes out.

This is typical "the best is what i know" response without actually looking at the costs involved.

To boil it down, Propane has 84,950btu/gal diesel (#2) has 128,450btu/gal basicly the btu/gal will dictate how much energy you can pull out of the fuel. So all other things being equal you would expect a propane powered genset to use 84,950/128450 = .6613 or 33% more fuel for any given load.

so now to cost per gallon. say Diesel cost $4/gal and say propane costs $2.50/gal. that would mean you use 33% more of the 2.50 stuff or roughly $3.325 for every gallon of $4 diesel you would burn.

So ya, considering just costs of the fuel, its WAY cheeper to burn propane than it is Diesel at 2014 prices. If you were go purchase a brand new 2014 diesel generator your looking at some fun EPA requirements concerning documenting how many hrs it can run under the Tier 4 emission regulations exemption for "emergency use generator". with LPG you would not have to bother with such requirements.

FYI if you had a 1000gal propane tank and got it filled at "summer" rates you'd be looking at like 1.25 give or take instead of 2.50 so the argument gets even worse for diesel.

Burning propane is only part of the cost. There's also the cost of the tank. And the OP was NOT looking at "new" diesel generators, rather a PTO generator for his present diesel tractor.

$600 portable gas. Run it all day/night, cheap power. If it gets damaged/stolen it's only $600. Don't have to worry about you expensive tractor running un-manned.
If you want to "use it with your tractor", put it in the bucket and drive it somewhere.

Where can you find a $600 portable unit that will run the whole house?

Gasoline is terrible as far as storing long periods. Diesel is better but can still have problems like algae. Not sure what your point is on CNG or propane as it stores better and is easy on the engines. Are you implying that propane can go bad if stored for long periods?

Are you implying that diesel in my tractor is going to go bad and I can't run my PTO generator?

 

[Baby Grand]

My solution was a Miller 302TB. It's loud, and it burns about 1gal gasoline per hr 10kW. It produces very clean 10 kW, 240V power. I can move it with the tractor to almost anywhere on the property to power equipment where I need to work and it has GFCI outlets. It's also a very nice welding machine.

That being said, I would love to find a 5k - 6k PTO machine that I could run with our B5100, which sips diesel. We had one storm where gasoline was very difficult to find and I don't like keeping more than 20 gal in storage.

 

[Cord]

I've made up my mind. I'll run the generator with an electric motor.



Bruce

If you use a transformer to step up the voltage you can actually feed the motor off the generator.

 

[Cord]

every emergency generator ive installed on large water systems and sewer treatment plants have been propane. Our new generator system for our homeowners association well are a set of parallel 150KW Generac Industrial 3 phase propane units tied into 3 - 1000 gal underground propane storage tanks.

You never have to worry about stored propane going bad. it just doesnt happen.

Now as far as someone thinking $6500 is too much for your piece of mind. I just got a deposit check yesterday for $10,000 to order a new Liquid cooled 48KW quietsource generator for a client. He's going to power a huge house and is going to bury 2 x 1,000 gal propane tanks. So it all depends on what a person feels comfortable with.

I will say that for all the generators that I've spec'd, only a couple have been natural gas. 99% are diesel. The reason being is that the propane/NG units have fuel storage issues (large tanks), higher maintenance (due to spark ignition), generally are not as tough (civilian motor converted to industrial) and make less power (requiring larger engine = $$$). Now all of the units that I'm specifying will receive monthly run tests and annual load bank tests so they are very well maintained. For home use, I'd still take a PTO for emergency power use.

 

[Cord]

Are you implying that diesel in my tractor is going to go bad and I can't run my PTO generator?

Diesel stored for long periods can go bad. This would be a potential risk with a homeowner stationary unit with a attached fuel source. It will take years (decade???), but the fuel will go bad. This being a PTO conversation, I'd hope you could find some other use for your tractor before then.

 

[grsthegreat]

Thanks for all the info guys. I think I'm going to go with the PTO. My wife don't want to spend 6-7 thousand on a hole house generator. 2 of my neighbors have the hole house and 250 gallon propane tanks, they only last 2 days and there empty. When the power was out for a week they had a hard time getting propane delivered, and they told me they spent a small fortune because the propane company charged alot to come out.

seems odd, a 20 KW generator at 50% power burns about 2 gal/hr and 3.5 gal/hr at full load. even at 24 hrs/day (which no one recommends) theres NO way they can empty 250 gal tank. these people must have HUGE genes or never had full tanks to begin with

 

[nc redneck]

I must have a snake oil, super low burn generator. My 20 k propane whole house generator would take 4 or 5 days under full load to empty a 250 gallon propane tank. Both AC systems, 3 refrigerators, well pump and septic, gas grill and stove all on high 24-7 to burn that much gas. Remember a 250 tank only holds 200 gallons or so 80%. Somebody is feeding you BS on propane usage.
As far as propane going bad it could happen in 20 - 30 years.
Propane fueled motors going bad prematurely is total BS also. A good friend of mine ran a propane delivery truck rebuilding outfit for 25 years. All of the big gas companies on east coast. They would take all the gas stuff off of old truck and install on new truck. 25 to 30 trucks per month. These are the trucks that bring gas to your house.
Back years ago they would run delivery truck off of propane in truck. I have seen 100s of them with well over 500,000 miles, oil looks like new. Cab and running gear shot.
I will think of this post next time power goes and you guys who saved a few bucks. Out starting tractors, putting in fuel, hooking up, flipping breakers. Possibly in hurricane winds or freezing rain.
For me I will tolerate the 45 seconds with no ceiling fan and wait for the Direct TV receiver to reboot. I can enjoy the cool AC blowing over me while waiting and feel good about my not much used but good 6K investment in gen set.

 

[pmsmechanic]

If you use a transformer to step up the voltage you can actually feed the motor off the generator.

If you use a big enough transformer you could probably sell power to the neighbours.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Propane fueled motors going bad prematurely is total BS also.

I'll stick with what I've experienced and that is poorer engine life on propane. You can believe what you want.


[/QUOTE]I have seen 100s of them with well over 500,000 miles, [/QUOTE]

I can believe that a truck could have this many miles, but on the original engine is a stretch. In a truck that's underpowered and with hired people driving. For sure the valves will have been done at least twice.