Building the Retirement Place

[bobm6996]

Murph - Nice looking home, if you don't mind I would like to ask a few questions.

How old is your home
Was it basically a pole barn type construction/structure with stud walls added between the posts
What size is it total, looks pretty good size
Does it heat and cool pretty economically
Any regrets, anything you would have done differently
Any issues with the slab floor and what type of covering do you have over it

Thanks in advance for your response and your time

 

[murphy1244]

1. Built in 1978 https://www.facebook.com/IllesArchitects?fref=nf
2. yes
3.3400 sft
4. yes, the house has 2 furnaces. 40000 and a 60000 BTU. GAs
5. Would have a Front porch. Make sure to run your water up thru the attic instead of the slab. Also I would have run a upflow system instead of down flow.
6. No, carpet and wood floor.

 

[bobm6996]

Looking for advice on the roofing choice, we meet with a representative from Morton Buildings in the next few days.

Metal or Shingles

Also, I ask the builder if they have built pole frame homes on something other than a concrete slab and was told they built over basements and crawlspaces as well. Can't wait to hear how they do it, still want to go with the basement if anyway possible.

Waiting on health inspector to setup the appointment for the septic permit meeting onsite, being told by contractors and a local lawyer that this guy is a total douche bag, this may be the more challenging piece of the permit process.

Power company coming out next Tuesday to begin the engineering process to get power back to the new construction.

Going to start taking pics this week of the property so I have the starting point captured because I hoping it all starts moving very soon.

 

[EddieWalker]

Have you looked into metal framing like what is used on metal barn/workshops? Big metal columns set on the concrete slab and trusses that give you an open vaulted space set about 12 to 16 feet apart. Then you just wood frame your walls wherever you want them if you want a more traditional looking home. Or you can go with the metal siding if you like that look and wood frame the interior walls for sheetrock.

Eddie

 

[dave1949]

Regarding the basement decision:

I think the first consideration is if your building site is really suitable for a basement. By that I mean will it be dry, will you be able to use gravity foundation drains or need to rely on a sump pump. Basements are nice, usable spaces for living, storage and utilities/mechanical systems if they are dry. If not dry, they can be just a PITA. At retirement age, I wouldn't put a laundry room in a basement though.

Having grown up in NW Ohio, I think humidity control in the basement will be a necessity. If you include the basement in your HVAC plans, that would be a big improvement over a stand-alone dehumidifier people often buy when they see humidity problems developing. They are expensive and expensive to run in terms of electric usage. To avoid carrying buckets of condensate upstairs, they also need a floor drain, or you need to lift/pump the drain water to the waste line height.

I agree, the ability to access much of your electric, plumbing, and duct work if present, from the basement is a huge plus. That's one thing I really like about basements.

Basements can make good tornado shelters. Depending on your normal activities the utility of a basement can be increased by installing a bulkhead entrance. Google "Bilco basement door". Storage, service and repair access other than through your house and down the basement stairs is a nice plus.

If you are into gardening, a portion of the basement could be built and conditioned to be a root cellar and preserved/canned food storage. It's also good way to store bulk local fruits and vegetables bought in season at (somewhat) reasonable prices. To do it well, you would need at least two root cellar rooms with different temperature and humidity levels. Stored apples give off a gas, ethylene, that over-ripens and rots other things.

I you decide to have a basement or partial basement, I think it would make more sense to align the basement perimeter with the exterior walls. You could do a full basement, or split the area in half, or an L-shape. If you build a basement 10' inside the exterior perimeter, that 10' of space would be either a crawl space or a slab. If it is a crawl space, to look good and for HVAC considerations it would have to be enclosed by the basement wall or a framed knee wall built on top of the basement wall. If it's a slab then you need to place it level with the top of floor above the basement to have one-level floors in the house. Doable but it will add time and labor expense.

I don't know why you couldn't build "pole style" on top of a basement wall; there is no reason to separate those two things as far as I know. The basement wall and its footer is a better foundation than a pole in the ground, or a pole on a sonotube or Perma Column: https://www.permacolumn.com/

That's my basement brain dump. Good luck with your decision.

 

[farmer2009]

Sounds like you have a nice plan. I understand the pole barn concept to building a house is to have all non-load bearing interior walls. But if you move your basement walls out to the main level walls then they could be stick built and just have your trusses designed for a clear span building. Seams to me it would be easier and faster to stick build than to have basically two different foundations.

Look forward to more updates.

 

[bobm6996]

After talking with a couple builders and spending a lot of time online we have decided to not build the basement in the pole style home. So, now we are working on deciding whether we go with the pole framing with a slab or with a raised floor with crawlspace.
This very frustrating and stressful, most research shows that the "experts" say the best way to go is with the crawlspace, the additional cost is worth it. I can see value in having access to the underside of the home in the crawlspace, I do not like the idea of a slab with sewer, plumbing and possibly some electrical in the floor. I also think about the challenges of deciding you want to run a new electrical outlet somewhere or change the location of a plumbed item in the home.
Where I struggle with the crawlspace is the exterior wall and where it meets the ground. Dave1949 sent me the link to Perma columns, which I really like an may go with makes total sense, keeps the wood out of the ground. I can give the crawlspace 30" to 36" of height, cover the ground with pea gravel and put down a vapor barrier like in traditional crawls, but I am still hung up on the perimeter being a treated 2" by something and the grade brought up against on the outside perimeter. It would seem that critters could dig under the wood and get into the crawl, I can and would insulate the inside of the crawlspace wall all the way around with Styrofoam, but that will not keep the critters or even moisture out, although there will be plenty of fall away from the house and I am considering a perimeter drain all the way around.
Talked with a concrete guy who said he can build us a storm shelter attached to the rear of the home with a door coming out of the garage down steps to the shelter and put the hydraulic type steel doors to allow an exit to the outside from the shelter, good idea we like and a lot cheaper than a basement.

Basement is out and I got wife to agree being in our 60's we do not need a partial or full second story, will put fake dormers and life is good. Stairs are something we will want to navigate in a few more years.

Any thoughts/ideas/comments on slab vs. crawlspace and how to protect the exterior perimeter from intrusion by critters and mother nature.

Thanks for all of the feedback, hope I do not become a pain as we move forward and your help ceases, it is greatly appreciated. Perfect example are the ideas about building to support our aging and the Perma columns is great, I really like those.

 

[dave1949]

A 30-36 inch crawlspace is pretty tight for anything but actual crawling. :laughing: A standard table top is 30", a kitchen counter is 35"-36". Sit down under your table and see what that looks like and imagine working in that space. My eyes are about even with a 30" table top when sitting upright on my butt.

The only way I know to alleviate most of the worries regarding a slab is to cluster the plumbing close to an outside wall and connect it to a central plumbing room. Something like a kitchen plumbing wall (sink & dishwasher) back to back or inline with a bathroom or laundry room for example. Then you could have a plumbing room built into and below the slab floor for the well tank (assuming you have a well), water heater, supply water and waste lines. Think of a small room with a lower floor that is inset into your house exterior wall. You would probably want access from inside and outside to that room.

If you have two or more plumbing clusters the waste lines can be joined outside before heading for the septic or sewer. The domestic hot & cold water supply lines can be run in a PVC pipe under the slab from the main cluster to to the other(s). You could easily run PEX in the PVC pipe and all supply line joints would be above the slab. All drains that don't enter the plumbing room would need to be near an outside wall such that a small chase can be built under the slab to provide access.

This would give you easy water line replacement and waste line access without cutting the slab. Moving a plumbing fixture would still be tough to do but that isn't often done unless the original design is lacking. Clustering the plumbing will save you money in material and labor, and keeping the water heater near the points of use will prevent waiting for hot water which lowers your water heating costs too.

Unless you have floor outlets, the wiring for a slab home will come from the attic. Fixes and changes can usually be fished down the walls if need be. If you have floor outlets in a slab the wire will be in PVC conduit run below the slab and easy enough to replace. Adding or moving would be very difficult. You can use fake hollow posts to drop wiring from the attic for outlets and light fixtures in large, open rooms.

 

[dave1949]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/241144-long-road-home.html

In the above thread, the OP, Lee, built a pole barn using Perma columns. There are good pics and discussion about them. Unfortunately just as he was finishing the barn, he had to move. Page 23 has a good pic of the frame using Perma columns.

I miss Lee's posts. He was a can-do DIY type of guy.

 

[EddieWalker]

Something to consider is that traditional framing of home or building is a very well proven method that works very well. Pole barn style building is a very economical way to create a building that is very strong due to the fact that the poles are set in the ground and continuous up the length of the wall. When you set our pole on top of the ground, or on top of a footing of any kind, you lose all that inherent strength you get from the pole being in the ground. You now have a hinge that required additional engineering to overcome it's desire to fall over, or rack. I think perma columns are a solution to a non existent problem that somebody invented to sell to people who do not understand framing. When a building is built, the first thing you do is build up the pad. This has to be above the surrounding ground so water drains away from it. Posts in the ground do not rot from being in the ground, they rot from water sitting at the base of the post. Same thing happens with fences and any other post in the ground. It car rot completely through, but when you pull up the post that's still in the ground, it's in perfect condition. Once you have proper drainage, and then you put a roof over the posts and walls on the posts, they should remain dry and last a hundred years easily. If they get wet, then that's because somebody didn't do something right with draining the water away from the building.

Trying to combine the two building methods results in compromising their inherent strengths. Converting an existing pole barn is one thing, starting out wanting to build one and then putting the money into converting it into a house is going to cost more then traditional stick framing.

Eddie