Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton?

[GManBart]

Well gas watch or whatever the internet says isn't my eyes, unleaded is 2.04, diesel is 2.39 at 5 stations within 8 miles of my house ��, and for work, we don't deal with 1/2 tons much, but 3/4 tons we build are 98 percent gas to 2 percent diesel. And the price difference in 3/4 tons and up is about $8300.00, which doesn't really apply to this thread about F150 diesels, but I'm pretty sure successful business owners would know which motor is going to give them the best return in investment. As far as the better return in 1/2 tons, if a person is towing 10,000 lbs more than twice a month over 200 miles each trip, they should have a 3/4 ton just for safety alone. Edmunds mag will post anything if they're paid well enough, just like anybody else. Not to deter you're reasoning, because there is a place for diesels in the world and I for 1 miss the fuel economy and reliability from them, but my last demo was a Ram 3500 C&C, crew cab 4wd diesel with max payload, 4:10 gears. Mostly highway driving, best mpg was 14.8. We put my 18 foot bumper pull with 2 sxs on and went to the farm one weekend, avg 10.8 mpg. My personal 3/4 ton with gas motor, 4:30 gears, pulling my PJ 24 foot gooseneck and MF 1533 gets 9.4 on same trip. Yes the 1 ton got better mileage, but a lot lesser load. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that there's a need for diesels, I'm just voicing that a 1/2 ton with a diesel will be hard to recoup the upfront money and really isn't a practical option for the average guy.

It seems hard to imagine that Gas Watch would get the price of regular unleaded correct in your area and then erroneously report diesel prices at the same time. Sure, it might not be every station, but there were ten listed in your general area that were at, or significantly below, the price of unleaded. I see the same thing around here...lots of stations charging $2.30-2.40 for diesel, but the places with good prices are much closer to $2.00...you just have to know which ones (they don't normally change). If someone is looking to save on long-term fuel costs by buying a diesel I think it's reasonable they'll make the effort to buy diesel at the places with low prices rather than the convenient stations.

The companies you're building utility body trucks for....what is their lifespan before they get replaced? A lot of work trucks like that don't actually do much driving, so the diesel won't pay for itself. They drive somewhere and sit all day while the employees work on the job site....no need for a diesel. In others, they get beat up quickly and don't last long enough to make a diesel worth while. None of that is really the situation we're talking about.

Saying that a 1/2 ton diesel will be hard to recoup the upfront money ignores the math of fuel economy, and saying it isn't a practical option for the average guy is really just a guess. Take the same truck....a Ram 1500 and the diesel gets 25% better fuel economy than the most fuel efficient gasser they offer. The diesel costs about $3K more last I knew. It simply won't take that long to save $3K with 25% better fuel economy and that's in normal non-towing driving. If they tow, it will shorten the time it takes to pay for itself.

All of that is coming from someone with two 1/2 ton gassers. My work truck is a gasser and I would have no need for it to be a diesel. My personal truck could go either way because I do tow with it pretty frequently. On a recent 500mi round trip with a 6K load I sure wished it had a diesel...had to stop to refuel in both directions (could have just squeaked by but I don't like running a nearly empty tank) and I get tired of the engine downshifting on the slightest little incline.

 

[wawajake]

Well I'm just voicing that a 1/2 ton with a diesel will be hard to recoup the upfront money and really isn't a practical option for the average guy.

Well I guess the "average" truck guy isn't agreeing with you, because the demand for the Ram Eco Diesel is twice what was expected as per Motor Trend comparision , and that Ecodiesel is even winning back to back truck of year accolades........oh and diesel up here in my part of Ontario Canada continues to be cheaper than gas by 6 to 8 cents a liter. I wish one had been available when I bought my GMC, but shortage at my dealer had only one in stock and it was crew with too short a box for my hauling needs.

 

[rd_macgregor]

My wife bought an Ecodiesel last year after her 10 year-old Sierra crapped out. So far, the performance has been pretty close to the EPA mileage ratings. She gets roughly 10 liters per hundred km with her (conservatively-driven) daily commute and around 12 lphk when towing the loaded horse trailer....which works out to 23 and 19 mpg, respectively.

 

[buickanddeere]

Poke is right on with his numbers and logic. Most diesel purchasers unquestionably worship at the alter of diesel without running real world numbers. They have it stuck in their heads that diesel is always better in every ICE application every time. No amount of effort to run numbers to prove the issue is met with an emotional response of indignation that somebody would doubt " diesel".

 

[sld]

Previously, the dodge diesel was compared to the ecoboost. Not much of a comparison when you look at towing numbers.

I just don't see 1/2 ton diesels being more than a niche market. Ford may want to tap into these new dodge buyers but gassers in 1/2 tons will always be the mainstream.

 

[GManBart]

Previously, the dodge diesel was compared to the ecoboost. Not much of a comparison when you look at towing numbers.

I just don't see 1/2 ton diesels being more than a niche market. Ford may want to tap into these new dodge buyers but gassers in 1/2 tons will always be the mainstream.

Then compare the RAM diesel to the RAM with the 3.6L V6. They have similar standard towing limits, and the diesel gets 25% better fuel economy.

 

[buickanddeere]

Diesel engines being regulated out of practical use by the EPA. Manufactures forced to replace diesels with gassers.

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[Garandman]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I don't know what one would need a diesel in a F-150 pickup for. Mileage is no better than gasoline, maybe worse in some and you sure aren't going to be pulling enough load with a 1/2 ton truck to require the torque of a diesel.

Not so sure about that given out experience with the Cruze diesel and Cruze Eco in our fleet.

The diesels are averaging 9mpg better than the Eco in identical use (we rotate the cars). They cost almost $3,000 more so it remains to be seen if their resale value with high miles (we expect 200K after five years) will make up for that.

Our van is an Ecoboost because we only drive it about 15,000 miles a year.

One oddity is that the trip computer in the diesels is pessimistic (actual calculated mpg is better) while every gas car we have the trip computer is optimistic. The Cruze Eco displays mpg that is usually more than 2mpg higher than actual. We are averaging 31-33 actual while the trip computer usually shows 35+.

All the drivers like the diesels better in the highway.

 

[Sysop]

A 4x4 F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost is rated at 16/22/18 MPG (city/highway/combined). A 4x4 Ram 1500 with the EcoDiesel is rated at 19/27/23.

The 3.5L Ecoboost turns the F150 into a sports car with a tow ball. The EcoDiesel RAM is using is slow and not all that powerful. A better comparison would have been the 2.7L Ecoboost, which still outperforms the EcoDiesel, but with closer fuel economy numbers.

 

[xring]

The 3.5L Ecoboost turns the F150 into a sports car with a tow ball. The EcoDiesel RAM is using is slow and not all that powerful. A better comparison would have been the 2.7L Ecoboost, which still outperforms the EcoDiesel, but with closer fuel economy numbers.

Ford is coming out with a new 10 speed transmission ( shared technology with GM) that is expected to narrow the MPG difference for both the New 3.5 ecoboost and the 2.7 ecoboost with the Fiat/Ram ecodiesel. This is enough power for most truck owners. If you are hauling serious weight 3/4 to is the place to start. I notice around here the local work trucks are usually gas, the courier trucks traveling distance on highways are usually diesel. For some unexplained reason I see I see a lot of 250 4 x 4s lifted spotless paint and street tires with diesels, I think they just like spending money.