Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton?

[GManBart]

There is a niche market for diesel where some customers no matter what , they are willing to pay a premium price for the diesel option in a vehicle and the higher cost fuel. In a light duty application .

Diesel is back to costing less per gallon than regular unleaded here, and many other places.

The national average for diesel is $2.40 and the national average for regular unleaded is $2.38, so there's essentially no difference, and the diesels get better MPG in similar applications.

Please don't try starting yet another anti-diesel rant that causes this thread to be closed like several others.

The U.S. refineries have amortized the costs of switching to ULSD, the world demand has dropped back to more normal levels and diesel costs have fallen accordingly....just like has been pointed out in many other threads.

 

[buickanddeere]

Let's wait for the price of crude to climb again which will once again make diesel cost more per gallon than gasoline .
The current pricing of that's couple of months is a brief hicup as diesel has been more $$$ than gasoline since 2006.
Please tell us how that diesel pickup saves money.

 

[GManBart]

Let's wait for the price of crude to climb again which will once again make diesel cost more per gallon than gasoline .
The current pricing of that's couple of months is a brief hicup as diesel has been more $$$ than gasoline since 2006.
Please tell us how that diesel pickup saves money.

Typical disregard for the facts. Diesel has been at or below the cost of regular unleaded since May of last year....over a year, not a couple of months.

Diesel was higher from 2006 to 2015 because of unprecedented demand for diesel relative to the production capability, a decrease in the demand for gasoline, and the fact that refineries were forced to spend about $8B to make upgrades to be compliant with ULSD requirements which went into place in 2006. It took the refineries nearly ten years to pay off all those upgrades, but they're past them now.

The hiccup was diesel being higher than gasoline.

Regardless, this discussion is about the diesel F-150 that appears to be headed to showrooms in the next year or two..whether you approve or not.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I don't know what one would need a diesel in a F-150 pickup for. Mileage is no better than gasoline, maybe worse in some and you sure aren't going to be pulling enough load with a 1/2 ton truck to require the torque of a diesel. Unless they can get the cost inline with a gasser, then there isn't much incentive for someone of average intelligence to buy one. Most gassers will go 300K now or more with nothing more than spark plug changes at each 100K which is comparable to a diesel engine. I certainly wouldn't give a $4000 premium to get a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck.

 

[GManBart]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I don't know what one would need a diesel in a F-150 pickup for. Mileage is no better than gasoline, maybe worse in some and you sure aren't going to be pulling enough load with a 1/2 ton truck to require the torque of a diesel. Unless they can get the cost inline with a gasser, then there isn't much incentive for someone of average intelligence to buy one. Most gassers will go 300K now or more with nothing more than spark plug changes at each 100K which is comparable to a diesel engine. I certainly wouldn't give a $4000 premium to get a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck.

The mileage is better than a gasser in almost every case. A 4x4 F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost is rated at 16/22/18 MPG (city/highway/combined). A 4x4 Ram 1500 with the EcoDiesel is rated at 19/27/23. Since the combined is usually pretty realistic, that's 18mpg versus 23mpg....roughly 25% improvement. That will pay off the more expensive engine without much trouble given a reasonable time of ownership.

One of the big car magazines did a 50K test (think it was Edmunds) of a Ram with the diesel and averaged 21.6mpg over the entire time including plenty of towing, so the posted figures seem pretty legit.

 

[n3ckf]

The price of diesel (called distillate in oil trading circles) is mostly driven be *export* prices because the USA produces a surplus of diesel vs. gasoline and Europe is the opposite so there's a good market for exported diesel. The economics of this are changing through as more overseas nations build refineries to produce it. Both Dubai and China are now exporting refined product now and Saudi's plan 2030 has building a bunch of refineries in scope. So I would expect the easy money in exporting diesel has been made so I'd expect the US structural surplus to result in continued lower prices for diesel here

 

[Poke]

Diesel is back to costing less per gallon than regular unleaded here, and many other places.

The national average for diesel is $2.40 and the national average for regular unleaded is $2.38, so there's essentially no difference, and the diesels get better MPG in similar applications.

Please don't try starting yet another anti-diesel rant that causes this thread to be closed like several others.

The U.S. refineries have amortized the costs of switching to ULSD, the world demand has dropped back to more normal levels and diesel costs have fallen accordingly....just like has been pointed out in many other threads.

Say what you will, diesel still isn't cheaper in my woods, and the idea of a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck is crazy. I deal with trucks, from 3/4 ton to class 6 trucks everyday. Any business that's counting beans buys a 3/4 ton truck with service bodies has a gas motor, plain and simple. The added cost of diesel motors, plus the extra maintaince, include the inheritant problems thanks to the epa, and it doesn't pay back over the life of a truck to buy a diesel. Granted a diesel could run forever, the added expense in everything else that makes a truck will long be gone, but diesel today won't make it past 150,000 miles on average without some major repair that will blow the difference in cost out of the water. If a man was to buy a 1 ton, and pull a trailer with 12,000 lbs on it everyday, for the life of the truck, then it might pay for itself. But the average guy that drives 8-5 M-F to work and hauls a 35 horse tractor once a month would never benefit from a diesel in any capacity. BTW, love that Sassy Massey in your avatar, my 2nd favorite MF of all time.

 

[GManBart]

Say what you will, diesel still isn't cheaper in my woods, and the idea of a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck is crazy. I deal with trucks, from 3/4 ton to class 6 trucks everyday. Any business that's counting beans buys a 3/4 ton truck with service bodies has a gas motor, plain and simple. The added cost of diesel motors, plus the extra maintaince, include the inheritant problems thanks to the epa, and it doesn't pay back over the life of a truck to buy a diesel. Granted a diesel could run forever, the added expense in everything else that makes a truck will long be gone, but diesel today won't make it past 150,000 miles on average without some major repair that will blow the difference in cost out of the water. If a man was to buy a 1 ton, and pull a trailer with 12,000 lbs on it everyday, for the life of the truck, then it might pay for itself. But the average guy that drives 8-5 M-F to work and hauls a 35 horse tractor once a month would never benefit from a diesel in any capacity. BTW, love that Sassy Massey in your avatar, my 2nd favorite MF of all time.

Guess you need to shop around for fuel more carefully.

In your area the lowest reported price for regular unleaded is $2.03 and there were 10 reputable places listing diesel for less than that (low of $1.88).

Benton, AR Lowest Regular Gas Prices - GasPriceWatch.com

If the diesel gets roughly 25% better fuel economy, as demonstrated by the Ram EcoDiesel option, it's really just a matter of time. The premium for buying the diesel option in the Ram is about $3K last I looked. It won't take that long to make up $3K in purchase price with 25% better fuel economy. Folks with high tech gassers, like the EcoBoost line are reporting absolutely terrible MPG figures while towing, so even a little bit of towing is going to make the diesel catch up that much quicker.

LOL...the Sassy Massey, might have to change her nickname now!

 

[Poke]

Guess you need to shop around for fuel more carefully.

In your area the lowest reported price for regular unleaded is $2.03 and there were 10 reputable places listing diesel for less than that (low of $1.88).

Benton, AR Lowest Regular Gas Prices - GasPriceWatch.com

If the diesel gets roughly 25% better fuel economy, as demonstrated by the Ram EcoDiesel option, it's really just a matter of time. The premium for buying the diesel option in the Ram is about $3K last I looked. It won't take that long to make up $3K in purchase price with 25% better fuel economy. Folks with high tech gassers, like the EcoBoost line are reporting absolutely terrible MPG figures while towing, so even a little bit of towing is going to make the diesel catch up that much quicker.

LOL...the Sassy Massey, might have to change her nickname now!

Well gas watch or whatever the internet says isn't my eyes, unleaded is 2.04, diesel is 2.39 at 5 stations within 8 miles of my house ��, and for work, we don't deal with 1/2 tons much, but 3/4 tons we build are 98 percent gas to 2 percent diesel. And the price difference in 3/4 tons and up is about $8300.00, which doesn't really apply to this thread about F150 diesels, but I'm pretty sure successful business owners would know which motor is going to give them the best return in investment. As far as the better return in 1/2 tons, if a person is towing 10,000 lbs more than twice a month over 200 miles each trip, they should have a 3/4 ton just for safety alone. Edmunds mag will post anything if they're paid well enough, just like anybody else. Not to deter you're reasoning, because there is a place for diesels in the world and I for 1 miss the fuel economy and reliability from them, but my last demo was a Ram 3500 C&C, crew cab 4wd diesel with max payload, 4:10 gears. Mostly highway driving, best mpg was 14.8. We put my 18 foot bumper pull with 2 sxs on and went to the farm one weekend, avg 10.8 mpg. My personal 3/4 ton with gas motor, 4:30 gears, pulling my PJ 24 foot gooseneck and MF 1533 gets 9.4 on same trip. Yes the 1 ton got better mileage, but a lot lesser load. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that there's a need for diesels, I'm just voicing that a 1/2 ton with a diesel will be hard to recoup the upfront money and really isn't a practical option for the average guy.

First tractor I ever bailed hay on, I was 14 and it was my uncles 1965 MF 135, and by far the sexiest tractor ever made. He upgraded to a 245 in the 80's then the last tractor he had was a 241. But for as long as I ever knew, that 135 was always called Sassy lol.

 

[Ken]

Poke over on the TBN Kubota thread there is mention of gas engine available for the tractors.
Also how do you like the separate taxing the state charges for diesel engines.
and the state also added a nickel for diesel since the pick-ups are the cause of high way needing constant repair. the 18 whl'eers got a pass since they usually are owned out of state.

Another question will there ever be a smooth highway from Benton I-30 toward Malvern or going to Hot Springs.

ken