1958 641 w/3 speed transmission and Sherman over/under unit

[gemutlich]

Thanks for confirming the cartridge style oil filter, my head was spinning between the 1004, 1010, and 1080 - all of which different sources told me were "correct", even though they are each different dimensionally, and the 1004 is the only full-flow as the other two are bypass style filters. I was leaning toward the 1004, thanks for giving me the nudge I'll grab a couple tomorrow while I'm in town. Thanks for taking the time to write all that down for me though, I'm sure it'll help someone else too down the road.

I'd figured the transmission and rear end would use something a bit thicker than the hydraulics, but I guess not huh? Question: what of the sherman over/under unit? Is it common with the xmission or does it get flushed drained and filled separately?

All else I'm up to speed on I believe, no pwr steering, wheel bearings will probably have to wait until I've hauled it down to Tennessee. The bush hog however is something I'm gonna want to look into the gearbox while still here. I'm guessing it's pretty straight-forward?

PS, that snow cab is something I don't believe I'll ever use, though it's cool to have it. Heck for all I know the canvas is ready to fall apart, all I have thusfar is that picture.

 

[Kirk-NJ]

The sherman get its oil via a sling on the inside of the transmission case. The only real way to drain it is to the split the tractor and there is a drain plug on the bottom of the sherman case

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks for confirming the cartridge style oil filter, my head was spinning between the 1004, 1010, and 1080 - all of which different sources told me were "correct", even though they are each different dimensionally, and the 1004 is the only full-flow as the other two are bypass style filters. I was leaning toward the 1004, thanks for giving me the nudge I'll grab a couple tomorrow while I'm in town. Thanks for taking the time to write all that down for me though, I'm sure it'll help someone else too down the road.

I'd figured the transmission and rear end would use something a bit thicker than the hydraulics, but I guess not huh? Question: what of the sherman over/under unit? Is it common with the xmission or does it get flushed drained and filled separately?

All else I'm up to speed on I believe, no pwr steering, wheel bearings will probably have to wait until I've hauled it down to Tennessee. The bush hog however is something I'm gonna want to look into the gearbox while still here. I'm guessing it's pretty straight-forward?

PS, that snow cab is something I don't believe I'll ever use, though it's cool to have it. Heck for all I know the canvas is ready to fall apart, all I have thusfar is that picture.

not sure about the 1080.. but a 1010 is a filter for a ford 9n, 2n 8n.

the 1004 or a ch6pl is right for a hundred series with a cartridge filter.

the later 65+ model 3 cyls with a cartridge filter took a ch14pl

The UTF fluid meeting the M2c134 spec is a decent oil.

if you really wanted to, you could run a 80w90 or 75w90 gear oil in the tranny and rear end, and utf in the hyds.. but I'd run utf in all 3, that way in case the internal sump pto shaft seal leaks and lets your hyds and diffy fluid mix a bit, it's no big deal.

sherman tranny is pumped full via slinger as mentioned, thru the front bearing ont he tranny.. the sherman takes the palce of the tranny input shaft.

 

[gemutlich]

Roger that. I was unsure about the filters and their applications, thanks for clearing that up.

Plan was to stop in at NAPA while in town this morning, that plan changed pretty darn quick when I woke up doubled over and calling for a meatwagon ride to the Hospital ER... First-timer kidney stones here. Dylauted and Morphine in large enough doses I gotta say do help take the edge off, Lol.

Spent the whole of the day there, doped up, CT scan, X-ray and blood work. Nothing passed and boy oh boy am I getting sore sitting here at Home now.

We'll see about tomorrow, it IS another day, right?

Thanks too for the good counsel on the fluids, and how the Sherman unit fits in with all this talk. Is the UTF something NAPA would have too, and if so, would 5 gallons be enough to do the whole shooting match?

I'll be taking the front plow off, after flushing the system, so I wouldn't need to take its' volume into consideration.

 

[Soundguy]

Yup, 5g is a good place to start. Napa SHOULD have some type of UTF fluid in stock. Remember.. most store counter people have no real experience anymore and if they can't look it up on their computer they usually just act stupid and make dog sounds.

So you may not get results asking for UTF, but try phrases like universal tractor fluid, transdraulic oil, etc

good luck on the stone.

 

[gemutlich]

Stopped up at NAPA earlier today, they had one 1004 filter on the shelf and this fluid. Bought 'em both and ordered two more filters for tomorrow morning. Plan is to head up to the tractor tomorrow late morning but with the heat up here in the 90's the past week A/C service calls are coming in so I might not be able to get up there for a while. Sucks, Wifey and me just really want to finish off our place here, put it on the market now that apparently the administration says the housing market's at an all-time high (right, not around here fellas), sell out of CT and get the heck back down to TN.

Here's the NAPA stuff in case anyone's wondering. Could've shopped around but man I just don't have the patience right now lol... Filter was 10.54 ea and the 5gal jug of juice was 40.49

 

[ovrszd]

You did alright. With patience I can buy 303 Hydraulic Fluid for $30 per 5 gallon.

 

[mastermind]

Excellent conversation guys. I'm looking forward to seeing the little tractor Mel. Looks like you did really well.

 

[gemutlich]

Thank-you, old friend.

 

[gemutlich]

Wasn't able to get up to the tractor today, but I did make some progress in assembling everything I think I'm going to need to accomplish what I want to do: 5 more gallons of gas, fluids and filters, compression tester, basic hand tools, drain pan and empty buckets etc...

Stooopid question, but what wrench(es) should I take with me for the drain plugs - oil pan, transmission, hydraulics, rear end? I should've paid more attention while I was there last, but was happy enough just to get her fired-up and driving under her own power lol

Looking at the weather it should clear up around here Wednesday for a couple days, will try to get up there then and have a go at things.

One last thing, which spark plug works good in this engine? Manual only says H-10 type. Not a big fan of Champion either so I'll probably lean toward the NGK or something. Thoughts?

 

[gemutlich]

Champion H10 cross reference chart:

Champion H1 - Alternative spark plugs

Champion H12 cross reference chart:

Champion H12 - Alternative spark plugs

Federal Mogul / Champion heat range chart:

http://www.federalmogulmp.com/en-US...n Spark Plug Copper Plus Heat Range Chart.pdf

Read a thread where it was suggested that the Champion H12 is a good replacement for the H10 in these tractors. Why? H12 looks to be a hotter plug. Is there a reason I should be using a hotter plug? If the H12 or the plugs that cross over to it are the way to go then that's what I'll do, just looking to learn a little as to why.

Thanks!

 

[ovrszd]

Can't help you on the spark plugs, although back when I had an old Ford I always ran Champion.

For the drain plugs, I believe they can all be removed with a good Crescent wrench.

 

[Soundguy]

You did alright. With patience I can buy 303 Hydraulic Fluid for $30 per 5 gallon.

agreed.

 

[Soundguy]

Champion H10 cross reference chart:

Champion H1 - Alternative spark plugs

Champion H12 cross reference chart:

Champion H12 - Alternative spark plugs

Federal Mogul / Champion heat range chart:

http://www.federalmogulmp.com/en-US...n Spark Plug Copper Plus Heat Range Chart.pdf

Read a thread where it was suggested that the Champion H12 is a good replacement for the H10 in these tractors. Why? H12 looks to be a hotter plug. Is there a reason I should be using a hotter plug? If the H12 or the plugs that cross over to it are the way to go then that's what I'll do, just looking to learn a little as to why.

Thanks!

I'd go h12. burn off deposits easier. gas today is mor elike paint stripper than gas from 60 ys ago.

your parts hous may have the h12 plugs listed as 512

autolite 437 are equiv to the h12 either are fine.

the h10 and al 236 would make it start and run just as well.

 

[Soundguy]

Wasn't able to get up to the tractor today, but I did make some progress in assembling everything I think I'm going to need to accomplish what I want to do: 5 more gallons of gas, fluids and filters, compression tester, basic hand tools, drain pan and empty buckets etc...

Stooopid question, but what wrench(es) should I take with me for the drain plugs - oil pan, transmission, hydraulics, rear end? I should've paid more attention while I was there last, but was happy enough just to get her fired-up and driving under her own power lol

Looking at the weather it should clear up around here Wednesday for a couple days, will try to get up there then and have a go at things.

One last thing, which spark plug works good in this engine? Manual only says H-10 type. Not a big fan of Champion either so I'll probably lean toward the NGK or something. Thoughts?

take a pipe, and a parallel jaw adjustable wench if you have one. just in case, take a pipe wrench too.

take gasket paper ( cerial box, etc ) and a razor to cut new gaskets, and a tube of thread dope for the diffy plug. if you have a cold chissle and a hammer.. take it. very occasionally you have to get the chissle into the rim of a rounded head and tap it around. that or weld a big hex nut to it hanging upside down, then spin it out. btdt.

 

[gemutlich]

Thanks fellas. I'm hoping to get up there later this week.

Will pick up some hotter, H12 equivalent plugs. I don't know what's in there now, but they were pretty black (dry, film not heavy build-up, maybe either too cool or carb set a little rich but didn't look like she was burning oil and all 4 had the same appearance) so starting over with new plugs'll give me a visual benchmark plus blowing a compression and leakdown test will help me wrap my head around what might be going on inside.

Thanks too for the tool info. Have a couple big - as Grandma used to say - "Polish speed wrenches / Mexican socket sets" (crescent wrenches) loaded up as well as my 3/4" drive socket set. Pipe wrench is a good idea, no telling if the PO's rounded anything off or not. Will chuck a piece of cheater pipe in there too.

I'm guessing the locations of the drain plugs will be pretty self evident. On my JD B, there is an overflow by the flywheel that I open when filling so I know the crankcase/transmission is filled sufficiently. What's the system used on the 641, dipsticks?

Soundguy, you mention gasket paper. What will I be removing that I'll have to replace the gasket on? I'm good with making new gaskets, have ball pein hammer will travel, hahaha, but having a hard time visualizing what needs to come off that'll risk damaging a gasket.

It'd sure be different if the tractor were in my own backyard, tough going into this blind you know?

 

[Soundguy]

those tractors will have 3 rear sumps:

Diffy. drain is a pipe plug. it may be hard to see if you have a swinging drawbar.. but it is right under the diffy case closes to the back of the tractor. Use some thread dope on it when you reinstall. plumbers stuff.. doesn't have to be fancy.. just something to smear in the pipe threads to help prevent leaks. Fill is on the top cover behind the seat, under your right but cheek area. a flanged plug/cap. it has a gasket under it. It may or may not tear when you remove the fill cap. if it does, cut one out of cerial box or gasket paper or a manilla folder... etc. check level is a pipe plug on the side of the rear housing area near the pto shaft area ( level ) . I honestly can't remember right or left side.. just look for a pipe plug on the right or left side back there.

Hyds has a flanged drain plug ( cap ). It's roughly right under the seat area under the tractor. another flanged cap with a gasket.. usually you do tear this one because the previous owner left it in for 50 years. it has a flanged fill cap, on top cover under seat, under left leg.. convieniently inconvienient to get to... has a dipstick on left side by pto

trans.. fill by shifter.. level check plug on right side aft of heel, just above running board

these are as best I remember. there are some differences between these and naa and the 65+ machines so I mighta mixed up a detail.. but should be close

 

[gemutlich]

Roger that. Thanks souNdguy, all good stuff there, I'll report back with pics to help out the next newb in line

*EDIT* Thought y'all'd enjoy a pic of our "B" and the beautiful Lady who I'm surprising with this '641. Pic was taken in August of 2011 just as Hurricane Irene was coming up through our little part of Connecticut.

 

[Kirk-NJ]

Autolite 437, as soundguy said, on the plugs, which is what I've been using for years in the fords but I do use an NGK plug in my 950 pulling tractor. Can't remember to number offhand but can check later in you need to know.

Kirk

 

[gemutlich]

Thank-you Kirk, I appreciate you weighing in. I went to NAPA yesterday, came Home with the NGK 3112 which was referenced in the Champion H12 cross-reference chart I linked in my post above for everyone.

If they don't work out, I'll give the Autolites a try. At $2.90 a pop I can't imagine getting hurt with the NGK's.

First rain-free day here, have other things to get to which'll keep me from the tractor, hopefully get to it tomorrow or Friday.

Couple more months and maybe I can find some accessories (bumper, etc...) at the CT antique machinery show in Kent - IF we're still here. One more thing we're trying to figure out...