Tractor Sizing GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor (Version 1.0)

[jeff9366]

This thread has been developing since February 2, 2018.

I am attempting to keep the Guide succinct.

Feel free to offer suggestions.



My opinions developed while owning/operating a Deere 750 clutch and gear, a Kubota B3300SU/HST, a Kubota L3560/HST+, and operating two 50-horsepower, 2-WD John Deere's, one a Deere/Georgia shuttle shift the second a Deere/India clutch and gear. A fairly diverse assortment of tractors, in weights often discussed on this site.

 

[jeff9366]

WORKING DRAFT (5)​

The optimal way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend. In subcompact and compact tractor categories it requires a 50% increase in bare tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires mean more ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking, yielding a less disturbing passage over rough pastures and woodlands.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation and requires four wheel drive (4-WD). Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads reduce tractor lateral instability.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume Kubota standard L series, are sparely equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include enhanced productivity and comfort components.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential applications on one to five fairly flat acres. These "residential tractors" fit in a typical garage.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you eat more depreciation on the implements than on the tractor. Passing time with multiple implement browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a minor glitch or two that requires correction. My Kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to others, well experienced with tractors, who perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[jeff9366]

Every tractor brand includes a model in the 2,600 pound to 2,900 pound (bare tractor) range with 100 cubic inch/24 horsepower engine ample for your tasks. Tractors under 25-horsepower are exempt from the stringent, Tier IV emission controls which abruptly increase a tractor's cost about $3,000 above the 25-horsepower demarcation.

 

[airbiscuit]

Good Advice. Here is the Cliffs Notes Version :wink:

WORKING DRAFT (5)​

The optimal way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend.

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires mean more ground clearance...

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR​

 

[jeff9366]

Cute, AIRBISCUIT, cute.

I have expressed repeatedly I want to keep the Guide SHORT!

 

[Piston]

To add to the above guide.....

After determining your tasks, you can now determine what implements you need to perform those tasks. Remember, a tractor is nothing but an engine that drives the tools that do the work, it's absolutely useless without implements/attachments.


[*]Once you determine what implements/attachments you need (F.E.L., Mower, Box Blade, Belly Mower, Stumpgrinder, Logging Winch, Haying tools, Snowblower, Planters, Plows etc) then, you can determine what size implements you want to use.

[*]Once you determine the size implements you want/need, NOW you can determine what size/weight/HP tractor would best suite the majority of the uses.


Some implements will be better matched to a lighter weight, high PTO horsepower tractor, and some implements will be better matched to a higher weight, higher PTO hp tractor, while some still will be just fine with a high weight and low PTO hp tractor (pulling for example)


Do you want to pull stumps out of the ground using a chain? Then PTO hp has nothing to do with anything, it's all weight/traction.
Do you want to mow a golf course with a 15' finish mower? Then you want the lightest tractor you can get, with the most PTO hp you can get.
Do you want to lift 2,200lb pallets up onto a 6' high ledge or retaining wall? Then you need a BIG tractor with a high capacity FEL, or a smaller dedicated TLB.

You can't determine anything, until you know what size implements you want to use. Don't determine what tractor to buy first, and then match the implements to the tractor. Determine what implements/attachments you want to use first, then match the tractor to the implements.

 

[jeff9366]

Jeff,

The information you posted about tractor weight is/was very helpful. As a new tractor owner I was too focused on HP.

After running the L4330 all day yesterday I can say positively that I would not have been nearly as happy with a lighter tractor and almost certainly would have upgraded had I purchased the L2501 or similar size tractor.

It is easy to see why Kubota has such a loyal customer base and owners like you are a great asset to the brand.

Ah, shucks.

 

[jeff9366]

WORKING DRAFT (7.1)​

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine bare tractor weight needed to safely accomplish your tasks. The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor chassis weight is more important for most tractor operations than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, bare tractor weight must increase 50% before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres. Subcompact and compact tractors under 3,000 pounds will enter a residential garage with typical 84" door height.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you must pay. Most tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit through an 84" height garage door, even with ROPS folded.

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires increase ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking and disturbance when passing over rough pasture and woodland.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than level land operation. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads hugely improve tractor stability. Four wheel drive is essential on hillsides. Four wheel drive supplies increased traction. When descending slopes 4-WD augments rear brakes as tractor weight shifts forward, decreasing rear tire grip.

Tractors optimized for hill work have liquid installed in the rear tires rather than air. "Loaded" tires are filled 50% to 75% with liquid, which lowers the tractor's center-of-gravity, increasing rollover resistance. "Loading" two compact tractor rear tires will increase tractor weight 300 pounds to 800 pounds over weight of identical two tires inflated with air.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[rbstern]

Recommend you lose the term "residential tractor." There's no industry term for that, and what you describe as residential tractor has all sorts of users and uses outside of a residential context. For example, nearly every boat and trailer yard I've ever been to has a SCUT used primarily for moving trailers. See the same for old school sawmills and light industrial places. And lots of agricultural operators use them for lighter duty tasks. Lots of SCUTs.

Labelling them "residential" will mislead some to conclude that is their primary purpose.

 

[majorwager]

Jeffy's whole theme should be labeled "BUY TOO MUCH TRACTOR". If one researches his previous failed attempt at this skewed and biased thread, he received substantial push back from folks that purchased a smaller, lighter tractor and were thrilled w/ the result.

To truly ascertain the validity of this obsessive weight fetish, one need only look at the specification column where the tractor is disected by cost per pound? Perhaps someone is spending too much time in their Whole Foods Store.

There is a place for larger heavy tractors. There is an equally important niche for SCUTS. The OP completely and misleadingly ignores the latter.

Further, the tractor neophyte reference is condescending and downright insulting. Few tractor purchases are essential, but rather discretionary. Suggests buyer has some degree of financial success. and intelligence. If these folks are so inept and unqualified to purchase a tractor, how on earth did they manage the purchase of a home (or two?), automobiles, perhaps a boat, computer, large screen TV, or even underwear.?

Much as it might disappoint the OP, this thread is simply an opinion, to be weighed against all the other opinions and market forces on T-B-N and the many other arenas that may or may NOT influence a tractor purchase.

EDIT:

Post #11 offers an excellent counter-perspective. Certainly worth attention.

jeffy claims he put 500 hrs on a previous tractor, Many folks operate a tractor 100 hrs annually or less.
So can needs and tasks change five years hence? Does everyone purchase the same automobile after 5 years use? Should one purchase a one ton duel wheel pick up because one day they may one day own a 5th wheel camper.

BUY TOO MUCH TRACTOR, even if it is NOT necessary.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Factors that may dictate a smaller tractor:

1. You will be mowing turf grass (as opposed to fields)

2. Your property has tight spaces

3. The tractor must fit under a garage door, or there are other storage constraints

4. Budget, especially if you must buy new (e.g., aren't experienced or mechanical enough to evaluate/work on a used tractor)

5. You're willing to hire out the occasional big job

6. You don't mind doing some tasks in smaller bites

 

[jeff9366]

Recommend you lose the term "residential tractor."

An excellent suggestion.

DONE.

 

[airbiscuit]

Understandably, budget is often the largest primary consideration. That said, the mistake many newbys make is chasing cost per horsepower. Depending on their needs, they may have been better served with a lower hp/larger frame tractor for the benefit of greater TRACTION and more ground clearance.

Budget, personal preference, tasks performed make this a multi faceted question. The beauty of TBN is that people asking for tractor buying advice get a wide range of suggestions. They may hear things they hadn't thought of, take that into consideration and make their own decision.

It would be interesting to do a survey on TBN of tractor owners who are on their 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th ..., tractor purchase and see how many went up in size, and how many went down in size (or stayed the same).

 

[jeff9366]

GirlWhoWantsTractor

Factors that may dictate a smaller tractor:
This thread is focused on tractor weight. Lighter, not "smaller" here.

1. You will be mowing turf grass (as opposed to fields)
Heavier tractors have larger tires so ground pressure may not increase with tractor weight. Certainly, tire selection is a crucial factor with R1/ag/bar tires marking worst and R3/Turf tires and Radial Tractor Tires marking lawns not at all under most conditions. So this is really more a tire selection issue than tractor size or tractor weight issue.

2. Your property has tight spaces
I am not advocating against Mahindra 26XL weight tractors.

3. The tractor must fit under a garage door, or there are other storage constraints
"Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres. Subcompact and compact tractors under 3,000 pounds will enter a residential garage with typical 84" door height."

4. Budget, especially if you must buy new (e.g., aren't experienced or mechanical enough to evaluate/work on a used tractor)
"Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used."

5. You're willing to hire out the occasional big job

6. You don't mind doing some tasks in smaller bites

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

It would be interesting to do a survey on TBN of tractor owners who are on their 2nd, of 3rd, or 4th ..., tractor purchase and see how many went up in size, and how many went down in size (or stayed the same).

I suspect anyone who does enough tractoring to be on their 3rd or 4th machine, or who owns a stable of tractors, almost by definition will be using/needing larger tractors.

How about everybody use Jeff's calculations and see if they come up with the correct size tractor for them? (I end up with a tractor twice the size I want/need.)

 

[airbiscuit]

Factors that may dictate a smaller tractor:

1. You will be mowing turf grass (as opposed to fields)

2. Your property has tight spaces

3. The tractor must fit under a garage door, or there are other storage constraints

4. Budget, especially if you must buy new (e.g., aren't experienced or mechanical enough to evaluate/work on a used tractor)

5. You're willing to hire out the occasional big job

6. You don't mind doing some tasks in smaller bites

I actually agree with this list.

 

[jeff9366]

I suspect anyone who does enough tractoring to be on their 3rd or 4th machine, or who owns a stable of tractors, almost by definition will be using/needing larger tractors.

How about everybody use Jeff's calculations and see if they come up with the correct size tractor for them? (I end up with a tractor twice the size I want/need.)

My intent is for tractor shoppers to identify their known tractor applications then have diverse T-B-N contributors suggest tractor weights. My only object is that shoppers end up with a tractor heavy enough to be SAFE in operation. I am not an advocate of any particular tractor weight.

How about everybody use Jeff's calculations and see if they come up with the correct size tractor for them? (I end up with a tractor twice the size I want/need.)

I have read many of your interesting posts. Many tractor owners change their idea of what they want and need after 500 (+/-) engine hours on one machine. I put 500 hours on a Deere 750, then 400 hours on a Kubota B3300SU before I bought a Kubota L3560 with enough weight to operate safely, all on the same property. Purchase of the B3300SU was a somewhat expensive lesson on the importance of tractor weight, relative to tractor horsepower.



guide
verb (used with object), guid·ed, guid·ing.
to assist (a person) to travel through, or reach a destination in, an unfamiliar area, as by accompanying or giving directions to the person:
He guided us through the forest.

 

[majorwager]

Jeffy will say anything to undermine those that disagree. When Girl w/ Tractor references a smaller tractor, what rational individual would dispute that smaller equates to lighter.

Here's the true backstory. Jeffy purchased some "smaller" tractors when he really wanted to be a "BIG" tractor guy. Said he Operated "Big" 50 hp deere's but did not own them. So if he had all this EXPERIENCE on "Big" tractors, why did he buy a series of "little" tractors. In the post above, jeffy alleges a SCUT is UNSAFE. Simply Ludicrous!

It is illogical, unless the deere experience was more of a test drive?

Bottom Line: Folks who choose to purchase smaller or lighter or SCUTS, terminology less critical, MAY actually know what serves their best interest and pocketbook, They are NOT foolish or misinformed. Girl w/ Tractor spent years researching her purchase.


We should appreciate Girl w/ Tractor when she approaches a TASK, while taking small bites each time. The end result is what matters.

And providing DEFINITIONS is more condescending ARROGANCE. It is the same when he corrects spelling and grammer or sentence structure. We get it, jeffy, you are just smarter!!

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I have read many of your interesting posts. Many tractor owners change their idea of what they want and need after 500 (+/-) engine hours on one machine. I put 500 hours on a Deere 750, then 400 hours on a Kubota B3300SU before I bought a Kubota L3560 with enough weight to operate safely, all on the same property.

Thank you, Jeff. As someone who just went through the tractor buying process for the first time, I understand what some of these tractor newbies are going through, and I feel like the "weight first" idea may be confusing or misleading for them.

I believe the weight concept is better suited to farmers or other larger-scale operators. I mean if you want to take up logging, dig your own foundation, or brush-hog 50 acres, you'll need a certain minimum size/weight. But if you just want a Swiss-army-knife chore tractor, surely there is a broad range of sizes/weights that can do the job.

I'm a couple months in, and so far, every day I wish I had bought slightly smaller. We will see if that changes over time.

 

[Jstpssng]

Weight is one consideration but shouldn't be the final answer. My old L275 weighed the same with the loader as my 3301 weighed before they put that attachment on; yet I have had more "Oh, SHOOT!!" moments in the last 8 months than I did in the 15 years that I owned the former. I worked the crap out of that little 275, and it was a much more versatile tractor. I've run a lot of tractors over the past 45 years from 8hp lawnmowers to payloaders and full sized farm tractors, working around the family farm, local apple orchards, et.al., yet this is the first time I've ever considered loading my tires. It's just not as stable as anything that I've run in the past.
While I think that Jeff has some good guidelines they need to be regarded as just that; not until you look around and run what you think that you want- preferably not just around the dealer's parking lot- can you determine what is best for your needs. HP, more than weight also will determine how big your PTO implements are.