Do battery cables go bad?

[4570Man]

My dump truck has been plagued with starting issues since before I’ve had it. The batteries load test good, the connections are tight and corrosion free. The starter sometimes just clicks. Usually if you click it a few times it’ll engage and start. Otherwise times it won’t engage and I usually roll it off. Other times if I’m not on enough hill to successfully roll it off, but turn the engine a little the starter will then engage. When it does turn over at a normal speed. It has a new starter on it. When I put the starter on I didn’t think to roll the flywheel over to inspect the whole thing, but the bottom looked good. The problem is worse when the truck is hot. It used to be 100% start the when the engine had several hours or more to cool, but it’s becoming more random, and I’ve been unable to run down the problem. Due to the problem I idle the truck a lot. I changed the oil tonight and it seemed to have diesel in it. I don’t have any lab equipment or oil annals so the best I have to work with is smelling it. I contribute that problem mostly to idling it a lot so I need to fix the problem.

 

[dragoneggs]

Addressing the title of your post... if your terminals/connections are good (corrosion/broken wire) then the only other way I see your cable itself being bad is if it has been partially severed (highly unlikely). Any easy check to make sure the cable sheathing is intact should eliminate that possibility.

 

[4570Man]

Addressing the title of your post... if your terminals/connections are good (corrosion/broken wire) then the only other way I see your cable itself being bad is if it has been partially severed (highly unlikely). Any easy check to make sure the cable sheathing is intact should eliminate that possibility.

There’s a brief section of cable that I can’t see, but all the cables that I can see look good. I’m assuming the truck would have already burned if the cable going to the starter was severely frayed. But I’ve heard people claim cables increase in internal resistance. And the truck is 27 years old. I did successfully load test 500 amps from the end of jumper cable that connects the batteries and it was only drawing off one battery for the test. Both batteries have a separate ground cable that grounds to the engine. My buddy thinks it needs a frame ground. Since the starter doesn’t ground to the frame I don’t see why it matters.

 

[ultrarunner]

My boss had a motor home that drove him nuts... it would start fine cold but often wouldn't crank hot...

Winnebago replaced the starter twice and he went through a number of batteries...

He was really getting upset and said it was the biggest pile of junk ever built...

I was maybe 15 at the time restoring a Model A Ford... asked him if I could take a look... he had jumper cables and it barely cranked... I took the jumpers and put the negative on the starter bolt and it started no problem...

Then I took a Model A Ground Strap and went from the frame to the starter bolt and he never again had any problems... something the dealer and the mechanics never had been able to do...

Seen poor grounds several times and mostly on restored cars with layers of paint... but also on regular cars/trucks where the flow is somehow impeded...

Simple enough to test with good jumper cables... a ground strap is not expensive either.

 

[1010]

YES,,, Not really go bad, but the terminal and the wire contact can become insufficient enough for problems.
You can just cut the bad end off and get a wire clamp terminal to replace it, if the wire is long enough.

A meter will show if you are dropping the cranking volts while trying to start engine.

 

[ultrarunner]

Off topic but on grounding...

We went to the beach in high school and stayed late... time to go and one of the two cars had a dead battery... no jumpers and no one else around...

I said we need to have the bumpers of both cars firmly touching and then doubled up some speaker wire positive to positive... it worked.

 

[4570Man]

Off topic but on grounding...

We went to the beach in high school and stayed late... time to go and one of the two cars had a dead battery... no jumpers and no one else around...

I said we need to have the bumpers of both cars firmly touching and then doubled up some speaker wire positive to positive... it worked.

I jumped a truck with 12 gauge wire once. I have 2 pair of vice grips so I clamped 2 ends. I just twisted the other 2 ends. I waited about 15 minuets and it fired right up. So really I just charged the battery. You don’t need huge heavy gauge jumper cables as long as you have a battery that will take a charge and you’re patient.

 

[jaxs]

Cables do go bad but what you describe doesn't sound like that's your problem. Your ring gear or starter drive might be worn out or ring gear has one or more bad spots. You may fail to hear starter when it initially try's to engage but sticks. Another possibility is starter in need of shims to align it with ring gear. Both these problems would survive even if starter is changed out. Consult with someone that know's your type engine to find out if starters require shims. To confirm starter is locked when this happens,try this. Remove inspection plate if so equipped so that you can go beneath to shine light onto flywheel and see if starter drive is locked with ring gear. You might also mark and turn flywheel 1 complete revoltution looking for damaged or missing teeth. If you can't find a way to see starter drive,this doesn't always work but carry a heavy hammer with plastic cover on head. When this happens,whack the starter to see if it unlocks. You might even hear it unlock.

 

[jaxs]

Off topic but on grounding...

We went to the beach in high school and stayed late... time to go and one of the two cars had a dead battery... no jumpers and no one else around...

I said we need to have the bumpers of both cars firmly touching and then doubled up some speaker wire positive to positive... it worked.

Wasn't that back when you went by MacGyver?:laughing:

 

[4570Man]

Cables do go bad but what you describe doesn't sound like that's your problem. Your ring gear or starter drive might be worn out or ring gear has one or more bad spots. You may fail to hear starter when it initially try's to engage but sticks. Another possibility is starter in need of shims to align it with ring gear. Both these problems would survive even if starter is changed out. Consult with someone that know's your type engine to find out if starters require shims. To confirm starter is locked when this happens,try this. Remove inspection plate if so equipped so that you can go beneath to shine light onto flywheel and see if starter drive is locked with ring gear. You might also mark and turn flywheel 1 complete revoltution looking for damaged or missing teeth. If you can't find a way to see starter drive,this doesn't always work but carry a heavy hammer with plastic cover on head. When this happens,whack the starter to see if it unlocks. You might even hear it unlock.

I agree with the not likely bad cables part. Moving the truck a little bit while in 4th gear which turns the engine a little bit is a pretty fail proof way of getting it to start with the starter. The starter gear is new along with the rest of the starter. The part of the ring gear I was able to see looked perfect. The starter came with a shim but I don’t use it. It said don’t use unless needed and I didn’t know how to measure clearance so I decided to try without it. I didn’t hear any abnormal sounds and the new starter worked flawlessly for probably 2 weeks so I decided the shim probably wasn’t needed.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Yes, had it happen. Bad crimps.

 

[jaxs]

I agree with the not likely bad cables part. Moving the truck a little bit while in 4th gear which turns the engine a little bit is a pretty fail proof way of getting it to start with the starter. The starter gear is new along with the rest of the starter. The part of the ring gear I was able to see looked perfect. The starter came with a shim but I don’t use it. It said don’t use unless needed and I didn’t know how to measure clearance so I decided to try without it. I didn’t hear any abnormal sounds and the new starter worked flawlessly for probably 2 weeks so I decided the shim probably wasn’t needed.

Proof positive that starter is locking.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

When i jump started my tractor a couple weeks ago, the rivet on the jumper cable clamp, between the 2 sides of the jaw, glowed bright red from the current going to the other side. The cable only fastened on one side of the jaw.

 

[4570Man]

Proof positive that starter is locking.

So I should remove starter and install shim? What is the definition of locking? I’m pretty sure the starter gear is never engaging when it fails to start. You can hear the solenoid clicking is the only sound it makes. Usually it will start after a few tries without rolling the truck.

 

[stuckmotor]

Off topic but on grounding...

We went to the beach in high school and stayed late... time to go and one of the two cars had a dead battery... no jumpers and no one else around...

I said we need to have the bumpers of both cars firmly touching and then doubled up some speaker wire positive to positive... it worked.

I saw a guy who only had only one jumper cable try the bumper to bumper trick. His cable was in bad shape and it didn't work. I'm glad you had better luck.

 

[jaxs]

So I should remove starter and install shim? What is the definition of locking? I’m pretty sure the starter gear is never engaging when it fails to start. You can hear the solenoid clicking is the only sound it makes. Usually it will start after a few tries without rolling the truck.

"LOCKING" is the term used to describe drive gear improperly engaging ring gear teeth then failing to dis-engage and retract to resting position. The repeated clicking of solenoid might be enough to shake it loose (no hammer blow required).

 

[RickB]

Cables absolutely go bad, they can corrode from the ends along the individual strands and look perfectly fine from the outside. Two examples of cables prone to failure are New Holland TC Class 2 tractor positive cables and early Ford Powerstroke positive cables.

 

[3Ts]

I have had cables look fine from the outside, but had the wires inside corrode. They had turned green and powdery. I only found it by tracing voltages when the car quit working.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have read people on this site claim that cables go bad internally. Except for the ends, I don't believe this, although I may not be correct.

I have a generator with such issues. Corrected connections and even changed the starter. If the battery voltage isn't right up there, it won't say boo.

12 volt is a really lousy voltage for such applications!

 

[RickB]

I have read people on this site claim that cables go bad internally. Except for the ends, I don't believe this, although I may not be correct.

I have a generator with such issues. Corrected connections and even changed the starter. If the battery voltage isn't right up there, it won't say boo.

12 volt is a really lousy voltage for such applications!

Correcting no crank or slow crank symptoms by replacing cables after cleaning the connections on the old cables without improvement is pretty convincing. Voltage drop testing is helpful.