Tractor Sizing TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION

   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #101  
jeff9366 is sooo right. I went from a bare weight tractor of 2400 pounds to my current tractor - bare weight of 4785 pounds. Plus with the grapple, FEL, loaded rear tires and rear blade, the combo now weighs 10,100 pounds. More traction, more stability, Class 2 implements, more lift, more grunt, ability to complete the big projects. And still what I enjoy - open station. And with the sage advice of the Kubota salesman - it's all wrapped in a 2009 Tier 3 package. Am I pleased - NO, I'm ecstatic.

I bought my Kubota M6040 - new in 2009. The only feature that brings me down off cloud 9 - the out-worldly prices of Class 2 implements. It didn't take me long to realize - there are no used Class 2 implement is this part of the world. So you save, research, soul search and - - spend wisely, Grasshopper.
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION
  • Thread Starter
#102  
This my first tractor purchase.

I have visited the dealerships to drive the tractors on the lot. It seems a little "fake" though to be driving around on asphalt trying to evaluate whether the machine will do the job at our property. One dealer offered to bring the tractor onsite to try out.

As a tractor novice, driving a tractor around your property may lead to a tractor purchase, but not an optimum tractor purchase.

New tractor operators are often intimidated by how unstable tractors with small front wheels and large rear wheels feel therefore tend to buy too light, too small as a result. ((Tractors seem to shrink after about twenty hours of operating experience.))

The dealer will deliver a tractor with a Loader but no implements and no counterbalance, so the Loader will not lift much, but neither can you easily damage the Loader without counterbalance.


Most OPs seeking advice describe their land and the projects they foresee for wanting to buy a tractor then wait for divergent advice from T-B-N respondents. In questioning respondents you will probably reach a good decision.
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION
  • Thread Starter
#103  
Can you provide details as to why one would be too light? I am concerned about the weight, which is why a Grand L is being considered - but I would love the "why" behind the answers so that I can understand what I should be looking for.

Heavier tractors are constructed on larger frames and longer wheelbases making them heavier, which helps maintain heavier tractors upright when applying loads, especially FEL loads.
Heavier tractors have wider wheel stance, increasing stability.

Heavier tractors have FEL lift and Three Point Hitch lift in proportion to weight. Greater FEL lift is the #1 reason compact tractor owners trade up to heavier models.

Heavier tractors are built with thicker steel and thicker axles to withstand greater stress. As a newbie operator you are more likely to bend a light tractor than a heavy tractor.

Heavier tractors have larger diameter wheels/tires, increasing ground clearance. Larger rear wheels are an additional form of gearing. Therefore, heavier tractors with large diameter wheels/tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires and a longer wheelbase permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less operator perturbation.

Tractor weight provides most tractor "grunt" defining tractor capability. Horsepower is needed too but horsepower is less important. Tractor horsepower moves up in priority when considering power for PTO-powered implements like Bush Hogs, but remains secondary to sufficient tractor weight.

When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second and (narrowly) rear wheel ballast third.
 
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   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #104  
tractive power---operator perturbation--????????????????????? You made those words up. lol
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION
  • Thread Starter
#106  
I feel like a newbie myself when you 20,701 and 30,372 post vets comment.
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #107  
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #108  
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #109  
Ummm well James how many times have you rode your tractor and felt peturbation :D???? I guess thats why I bought a air ride seat...;)

That would definitely keep perturbation at a minimum. :) Not to mention keeping you tushy more comfortable.
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION
  • Thread Starter
#110  
WORKING DRAFT (7.45)​

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Novice tractor operators are initially intimidated by instability of tractors with small front wheels and large rear wheels, therefore regularly purchase tractors too light, too small for long term satisfaction. ((Tractors seem to shrink after about twenty hours of operating experience.)) As a newbie operator the stability and strength of a sufficiently heavy tractor will help keep you safe as you learn tractor operation.

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications.
Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for recommendations.

Sufficient tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, a significant tractor capability increase requires a bare tractor weight increase of 50%. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is worse than depreciation on a tractor.

When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second and (narrowly) rear wheel ballast third.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Most new tractors are delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment after seven years. Dealer proximity is less important for those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.









TO BE DEVELOPED INTO SEPARATE TOPIC

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than level land operation. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads improve tractor stability more than any other variable.

Four wheel drive is essential on hillsides. Four wheel drive supplies increased traction and braking. When descending slopes 4-WD augments rear brakes as tractor weight shifts forward, decreasing rear tire grip.

Compact tractors optimized for hill work have liquid installed in the rear tires rather than air. "Loaded" tires are filled 50% to 75% with liquid, which lowers the tractor's center-of-gravity, increasing rollover resistance. "Loading" two compact tractor rear tires increases tractor weight 300 pounds to 800 pounds over weight of identical two tires inflated with air. Some prefer to ballast rear wheels with iron wheel weights rather than tire liquids.
 
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   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #111  
Bulletin:

[video]http://nasdonline.org/static_content/documents/7319/d002523.pdf[/video]
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #112  
Heavier tractors have larger diameter wheels/tires, increasing ground clearance. Larger rear wheels are an additional form of gearing.
Therefore, heavier tractors with large diameter wheels/tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow.
Larger wheels and tires and a longer wheelbase permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less operator perturbation.

Hmmm, the first part above (in bold) directly contradicts the second part below (in italics), unless there is a gearing change as well.
Larger wheels mean a higher ground speed and less torque on the ground for the same axle RPM, if a tractor has larger wheels, it generally gets different gears to increase the torque at the axle and make up for the larger tires.

Aaron Z
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #113  
Hmmm, the first part above (in bold) directly contradicts the second part below (in italics), unless there is a gearing change as well.
Larger wheels mean a higher ground speed and less torque on the ground for the same axle RPM, if a tractor has larger wheels, it generally gets different gears to increase the torque at the axle and make up for the larger tires.

Aaron Z

Yep. :thumbsup:
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #114  
Hmmm, the first part above (in bold) directly contradicts the second part below (in italics), unless there is a gearing change as well.
Larger wheels mean a higher ground speed and less torque on the ground for the same axle RPM, if a tractor has larger wheels, it generally gets different gears to increase the torque at the axle and make up for the larger tires.

Aaron Z

Yep. :thumbsup:
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #115  
I am shopping for a tractor, so I thought this thread would be an educational read. I made it through 6 pages where most of the discussion was focused on CAPS, so if in the following 6 pages someone meaningfully discussed facts related to tractor weight, and I missed it, please forgive me.

Jeff makes a good point that we should determine the tasks we want a tractor to perform then select a tractor based on that. What he didn't do was qualify that further. I need to do light to moderate bush hogging on about an acre. I need to till soil for a garden that's close to an acre. I need to do some light to moderate box blading to smooth uneven surfaces. I need to scatter some gravel and smooth it out for a 350'x20' driveway.

How am I supposed to know how much tractor weight I need for that?

I am looking at 24-26 HP HST compact tractors in the 2000 pound +/- range. How much bare tractor weight do I need to pull 4-5' implements? From a physics standpoint, how does a 5 foot box blade know the tractor weight that is pulling it? That's a funny way of asking how weight matters in that equation.

I can see where weight matters if you have an FEL filled to capacity, but how many tractors will have the back end lightened to the point of danger or inefficiency with the FEL filled to capacity? How can that not be corrected with fluid in the tires and or an implement on the 3 point to counter the extra weight up front?

I have heard enough people tell me that that weight matters that I believe it, but nobody has demonstrated or provided facts to support that opinion in a way that has me thoroughly convinced. Show me how weight matters.
 
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   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #116  
Show me how weight matters.

The very first time you attempt to pull your boxblade up hill with all your tires spinning, you will then understand.

but how many tractors will have the back end lightened to the point of danger or inefficiency with the FEL filled to capacity?
Answer: ALL OF THEM!. You MUST have ballast, because as the tractors get larger and heavier, the FEL's get bigger, the buckets get bigger and will lift much larger loads, so they all must be properly ballasted.


You will even notice a big difference on your 25 hp tractor , pulling your 5 foot boxblade with and without loaded tires.
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION
  • Thread Starter
#117  
How am I supposed to know how much tractor weight I need for that?

Post #110: The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for recommendations.

I have heard enough people tell me that that weight matters that I believe it, but nobody has demonstrated or provided facts to support that opinion in a way that has me thoroughly convinced. Show me how weight matters.

Your question is answered in Post #103.
 
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   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #118  
Bulletin:

[video]http://nasdonline.org/static_content/documents/7319/d002523.pdf[/video]

Hmmm, the first part above (in bold) directly contradicts the second part below (in italics), unless there is a gearing change as well.
Larger wheels mean a higher ground speed and less torque on the ground for the same axle RPM, if a tractor has larger wheels, it generally gets different gears to increase the torque at the axle and make up for the larger tires.

Aaron Z

Excellent info.
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #119  
The very first time you attempt to pull your boxblade up hill with all your tires spinning, you will then understand.


Answer: ALL OF THEM!. You MUST have ballast, because as the tractors get larger and heavier, the FEL's get bigger, the buckets get bigger and will lift much larger loads, so they all must be properly ballasted.


You will even notice a big difference on your 25 hp tractor , pulling your 5 foot boxblade with and without loaded tires.


If I ballast and I don't have hills, It sounds like lack of weight won't be an issue for what I intend to use a tractor for.
 
   / TRACTOR WEIGHT as a SINGLE CRITERION IN TRACTOR SELECTION #120  
how does a 5 foot box blade know the tractor weight that is pulling it?

When you fill a 5ft box blade on a 24-26hp tractor you will find out in a hurry if you're tractor has enough tractor weight to pull it, weight = traction when pulling ground engaging implements..
 

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